family sources say there is a four hour window for abduction

[annalia]

I see your point, but it just doesn't fit to me that she would come out later and admint to being drunk. As has been stated many times in this forum this whole thing makes no sense to me. When I think about all the facts as we know them (not many) nothing makes sense to me except abduction. I know call me 'crazy' but I cannot come to the conclusion that anyone in the family did this. And she doesn't really seem the type to me to panic. She has been very confident to the point of be hauty. I just don't know. jmo

She was seen drinking on the step, the neighbor was with her. The neighbors were questioned by LE. She was seen buying the wine. How could she later deny it?
Panicking after your baby dies and not panicking to cover your tracks are two different things. How many times have we seen guilty people give interviews where they try to come across as calm and convincing?
I'm not saying I'm convinced that this is what happened though, ITA with you that this whole thing makes no sense.

 

[mck16]

I generally suspected this theory back on October 5th, 6th and even 14th.

However, after a month the theory that even a sober but panicked DB - without a car, with two children at home - so cunningly and thoroughly disposed of a body that no cadaver dogs, investigators, search teams, etc. can find that body starts become overly complicated and requires so many variables, outside actors, etc. that I've come to doubt it.

Not only would the baby have to be hidden but every shred of evidense in the home would have to be gotten rid of. And what about the boys? I just can't see it. And for the sightings to be coinsidence or a set up? Set up is too elaborate for DB to have done it that night. And I don't by any stretch think what happended was premediated by DB.

 

[Sparklin]

I agree completely! (DB is a whole other story!! She should be sitting there answering the questions because she was the adult in the home responsible for that baby and the boys! She has no excuse for needing a break!!)

I don't believe she asked for the break and in her interview on GMA said she was fine with whatever they were asking, implying, questioning if it could bring her baby back.

 

[BritsKate]

The 'hit' was the reason for the search warrant, but during the actual search have we heard there was a second 'hit'??

Oriah in the HRD thread has stated if the FBI called in the dogs a non-disclosure agreement may have been signed and we may never know if there was a 2nd dog/hit unless the handler testifies at a criminal trial.

 

[21merc7]

Do people who have a glass of wine at home usually have a "bar-sized" serving? So let's say she had 10 glasses of wine in 4 hours. If the body as you say takes one hour to process a glass of wine, how long does it take if you have two or three drinks in one hour? So are you saying 10 drinks would take ten hours? I'm just trying to get clear on your formula...

Up here we have a zero tolerance for alcohol when driving. If you have two drinks over a two hour period and then wait two hours before driving - be prepared for a roadside suspension because it will show up in the "blower".

BBM

This State is the same - .08 = about one beverage.

I forgot about the meds she is on, you reminded me in your previous post. So, I can surmise she did go to bed and black out.

I do think it possible she left all the lights on, and the neighbor - also drinking- is remembering some other night. I don't think the lights were ever turned off.

('bout time you started posting down here. )

 

[linda505]

We also have to keep in mind-The neighbor is still in contact with DB-per the story yesterday..so she might have told DB what happened between she went in at 1030 & 11.30,DB can not remember anything after 10.30-until JI shows up at 3.45!
So that means the family believes Lisa was kidnapped between 10.30-2.30 am-that is 4 hrs..but if we are believe 12.15 witness
she had to been taken between 11.30-12.15 am,but we still have time to account for between 2.30-3.45 when JI comes to home

I think that you are correct - whatever happened was between 11:30 and 12:15 (if the witness indeed saw Baby Lisa and I haven't found anything out that makes me suspicious of this witness) - then I believe that someone was watching and waiting for their opportunity. I think that it is possible that someone "known" to the family (either closely or just familiar) that knew that JI was working that night is involved in this. This theory doesn't make DB innoccent or guilty in my mind. I just believe that someone else is involved

 

[mck16]

She was seen drinking on the step, the neighbor was with her. The neighbors were questioned by LE. She was seen buying the wine. How could she later deny it?
Panicking after your baby dies and not panicking to cover your tracks are two different things. How many times have we seen suspects give interviews where they try to come across as calm and convincing?
I'm not saying I'm convinced that this is what happened though, ITA with you that this whole thing makes no sense.

But when her admission came out to MK wasn't it reported that the LE didn't know she was drunk or had drunk that much. I seem to recall that reported. Everyone saw the video of the wine purchase, but that doesn't mean she went home and got drunk. She is the one who told that in an interview. And maybe she was just covering her butt in case it came out from someone else. I just don't know.

 

[mck16]

I think that you are correct - whatever happened was between 11:30 and 12:15 (if the witness indeed saw Baby Lisa and I haven't found anything out that makes me suspicious of this witness) - then I believe that someone was watching and waiting for their opportunity. I think that it is possible that someone "known" to the family (either closely or just familiar) that knew that JI was working that night is involved in this. This theory doesn't make DB innoccent or guilty in my mind. I just believe that someone else is involved

But, JI was supposed to be home by 10:30. How would they know he was working longer? Especially since it has been reported that he didn't call home. tia

 

[neese]

I can understand what you are saying but remember, she was caught on camera buying the wine so what better excuse to use, that she blacked out. I am sure its been used as a defense before. Now if she was on camera buying Nyquil I would expect her to have said she took that. We have to remember also that this wine was for a family function apparently, and she decided that night to drink it.. I still cant buy that. This is the main reason I think she was involved, not the only one by far but the main reason. I cant shake the feeling that she wasnt drunk at all.

Yeah, I'm totally on the fence about the drunk part. I just thought that maybe she had to admit to it b/c of the grocery store cam and the neighbors. If it were a night that LI didn't go missing then she would have totally get away with drinking and partying but it's almost like I feel like, she got caught and had to admit to the drinking. But my feelings may also be coming from the fact that she reminds me soooooo much of my ex-friend, the huge drunk that i mentioned in a previous post. I have gotten drunk my fair share of times for sure, and I have blacked out, but I have never witnessed the day long blackouts with my ex-friend until I saw it myself. She could never remember where she drove, where she spent her money, where she left her car, she would even wake up from a drunk, see the clock say 6:00 and rush and take her kids to school in the dark, only to get to the school and see that nobody is there, then realize, it's 6 pm at night. It was just unreal to witness these things. I really only hung out with her because I wanted to make sure her kids were safe. Too many people in her life enabled her. Maybe JI enables DB also or who the heck knows....:banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[21merc7]

neese;

Thank you for sharing about your friend. I hope you are okay about it all, and, I really hope your friend gets some help. :heart:

 

[linda505]

But, JI was supposed to be home by 10:30. How would they know he was working longer? Especially since it has been reported that he didn't call home. tia

ughhhh lol -you had to just shoot that theory in the foot didn't you. Didn't even cross my mind when my brain went there - now I have to go back to thinking again :waitasec:

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Do people who have a glass of wine at home usually have a "bar-sized" serving? So let's say she had 10 glasses of wine in 4 hours. If the body as you say takes one hour to process a glass of wine, how long does it take if you have two or three drinks in one hour? So are you saying 10 drinks would take ten hours? I'm just trying to get clear on your formula...

Up here we have a zero tolerance for alcohol when driving. If you have two drinks over a two hour period and then wait two hours before driving - be prepared for a roadside suspension because it will show up in the "blower".

Let me see if I can break down what I'm trying to say.

1. My husband and I drink wine from wine glasses, filled roughly 1/2 full (alittle less). But that's just us. I don't have the first clue what DB's "serving sizes" were, so I can't even begin to speculate on that. That's why in my original post I commented about the variables that would affect the 1 drink/1 hour formula.

2. If DB had 3 drinks in 1 hour, it would take roughly 3 hours for her body to metabolize the alcohol (assuming it was an average sized drink).

3. The point I was trying to make though, variables aside, is that if she went to bed at 10:30 like she says, then she had stopped drinking at that point. Let's say she did have 10 glasses of wine, back to back, before she went to bed (not saying she did, just posing a hypothetical). If we are going by the 1 hour for 1 drink formula, by 3:30 am, her body would have processed half of the alcohol she consumed. So, as I said, she would have sobered up significantly. Not saying she was sober...not at all...just saying she would have been significantly less intoxicated by 3:30 than she was at 10:30.

(Hope I'm making sense.)

 

[mck16]

Yeah, I'm totally on the fence about the drunk part. I just thought that maybe she had to admit to it b/c of the grocery store cam and the neighbors. If it were a night that LI didn't go missing then she would have totally get away with drinking and partying but it's almost like I feel like, she got caught and had to admit to the drinking. But my feelings may also be coming from the fact that she reminds me soooooo much of my ex-friend, the huge drunk that i mentioned in a previous post. I have gotten drunk my fair share of times for sure, and I have blacked out, but I have never witnessed the day long blackouts with my ex-friend until I saw it myself. She could never remember where she drove, where she spent her money, where she left her car, she would even wake up from a drunk, see the clock say 6:00 and rush and take her kids to school in the dark, only to get to the school and see that nobody is there, then realize, it's 6 pm at night. It was just unreal to witness these things. I really only hung out with her because I wanted to make sure her kids were safe. Too many people in her life enabled her. Maybe JI enables DB also or who the heck knows....:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Wow what an experience. Did you ever see her mistreat her children or do anything out of the ordinary toward them. You said she would jump up and take her kids to school even though it was the wrong time, she still knew what she needed to do if it had been the right time. I have heard of people doing normal things in their blackouts. Sounds like you have first hand knowledge. ty

 

[neese]

Basically from the search warrant.

In their request for a search warrant, authorities said they were looking for DNA, fingerprints, cell phones and evidence of human decomposition.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/21/3221138/cadaver-dog-has-hit-inside-house.html?r#ixzz1cfHWaOzj

And wasn't the search warrant granted in the first place because a HR Dog hit on the spot in the master bedroom before anyone was even fingering the parents? So the search warrant was granted. So is that the only thing we do know from LE? I can't think....:banghead:

 

[JeannaT]

The 'hit' was the reason for the search warrant, but during the actual search have we heard there was a second 'hit'??

No. And in fact, during the second search, the carpet around the original "hit" was not taken to the lab.

 

[logicalgirl]

Let me see if I can break down what I'm trying to say.

1. My husband and I drink wine from wine glasses, filled roughly 1/2 full (alittle less). But that's just us. I don't have the first clue what DB's "serving sizes" were, so I can't even begin to speculate on that. That's why in my original post I commented about the variables that would affect the 1 drink/1 hour formula.

2. If DB had 3 drinks in 1 hour, it would take roughly 3 hours for her body to metabolize the alcohol (assuming it was an average sized drink).

3. The point I was trying to make though, variables aside, is that if she went to bed at 10:30 like she says, then she had stopped drinking at that point. Let's say she did have 10 glasses of wine, back to back, before she went to bed (not saying she did, just posing a hypothetical). If we are going by the 1 hour for 1 drink formula, by 3:30 am, her body would have processed half of the alcohol she consumed. So, as I said, she would have sobered up significantly. Not saying she was sober...not at all...just saying she would have been significantly less intoxicated by 3:30 than she was at 10:30.

(Hope I'm making sense.)

Yes, you are making sense to me. LOL - except in the use of the word metabolize - cause it doesn't mean out of your system it means to completely hit your system - so it's not gone in an hour.

Not trying to belabour the point - because we only have her and the neighbour's word for it at this point...
Found a pretty comprehensive article about alcohol and the effects if anyone is interested - way too long to post as is...

http://www.doctorbenjamin.com/etoh/etoh.htm

Has some interesting info..

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Yes, you are making sense to me. LOL - except in the use of the word metabolize - cause it doesn't mean out of your system it means to completely hit your system - so it's not gone in an hour.

Not trying to belabour the point - because we only have her and the neighbour's word for it at this point...
Found a pretty comprehensive article about alcohol and the effects if anyone is interested - way too long to post as is...

http://www.doctorbenjamin.com/etoh/etoh.htm

Has some interesting info..

metabolize
[mətab′əlīz]
Etymology: Gk, metabole, change
to undergo metabolism, the breaking down of carbohydrates, proteins, and fats into smaller units; reorganizing of those units as tissue building blocks or as energy sources; and eliminating waste products of the processes.

:crazy:

 

[SyraKelly]

ughhhh lol -you had to just shoot that theory in the foot didn't you. Didn't even cross my mind when my brain went there - now I have to go back to thinking again :waitasec:

lets say the family believes the 12.15 witnesses-where does the 4 hrs come from there..BD came in at 10 30 and neighbor outside until 11.30..then comes 12.15 witnesses.but if the family believes the kidnapping happened after 12.15 and goes with the 4 am witness..then they don't believe the 12.15 witnesses..they can't have it both ways to me..KWIM

 

[mck16]

ughhhh lol -you had to just shoot that theory in the foot didn't you. Didn't even cross my mind when my brain went there - now I have to go back to thinking again :waitasec:

That's funny and that is what happens with all my theories someone debunks them. That is why this case is so frustrating. :maddening:

 

[frankie069]

Not only would the baby have to be hidden but every shred of evidense in the home would have to be gotten rid of. And what about the boys? I just can't see it. And for the sightings to be coinsidence or a set up? Set up is too elaborate for DB to have done it that night. And I don't by any stretch think what happended was premediated by DB.

But what evidence besides Lisa would have to be disposed of, well besides possibly the cell phone which were disposed of. If you kill your child by, lets say shaking her to death or slamming her down in her crib and breaking her neck, what would you have to get rid of besides the body. If even you planned on shaking your child to death or slamming her around and killing her, what would there be to get rid of besides the body. Once again, the cell phones because they must hold some evidence. I called my cell phone company and asked them if they had txt messages they could see that I sent and they told me no, they could only pull up them up with a court order and that would take a while. So, they can say you made txt messages but cannot see them. They need that court order. On the other issue, if she knew people how hard would be it be to call on friends/family to help you dispose of a body.. Not hard at all in my book.