family sources say there is a four hour window for abduction

[mck16]

I can understand what you are saying but remember, she was caught on camera buying the wine so what better excuse to use, that she blacked out. I am sure its been used as a defense before. Now if she was on camera buying Nyquil I would expect her to have said she took that. We have to remember also that this wine was for a family function apparently, and she decided that night to drink it.. I still cant buy that. This is the main reason I think she was involved, not the only one by far but the main reason. I cant shake the feeling that she wasnt drunk at all.

What would be her motive in hiding the baby's death and body? Why do you think she or anyone in the family would do that? tia

 

[scmom]

I hadn't heard that one, all I had heard was DB insisting that it was impossible because the phones didn't work. I remember saying that LE showed her the ping map, but I don't think DB has said anything about the phone call to MW. If anyone has a link, get it up here so I can transcribe it.

There have been so many interviews and so many story changes, that I am way past trying to keep track of them all.

No, I don't mean DB saying anything about a call to MW. This is what I was talking about.
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/18/3215726/promising-lead-fizzles-in-lisa.html

 

[carole]

Well, quietly through FOX and JJP is a stretch.

LE hasn't released a single thing in this case. Everything is coming from the family, grocery store clerk, neighbor's, motorcycle dude and the pink hair lady - MW and the media interpretation of what the sources are telling them.

BBM

Yes, they have.

Page 6 of the State's Motion to Seal Court Records --

"On October 17, 2011 an FBI cadaver dog was brought into the residence upon consent of Irwin and Bradley. The cadaver dog indicated a positive "hit" for the scent of a deceased human in an area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed."

That is direct from LE.

State's Motion to Seal Court Records --
http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf

 

[hambirg]

I initially believed that the brothers saw baby Lisa that day. Thinking they would have confirmed that in their little initial interviews.

But... JI says in an interview that LE, when they had him alone, first tried telling him that DB must have done something. Then...they turn it around and probe him for what he himself may have done during that few hour window he was home between jobs.

So...if JI is telling the truth about LE probing him for that two hour window, at least at that point in the questioning, LE didn't have confirmation that the baby had been seen beyond that time JI was home.

Hope that makes sense. In other words, they wouldn't bother accusing him or probing him about that two hour window if they had independent (credible) information that the baby was seen after he'd left for work.

Sorry, I'm trying to catch up here, but I had to respond while it was still fresh in my mind.

I understand what you are saying, but it is still possible that LE knew the boys had seen they had seen BL during that time. They have DB in one room and JI in another. If they were suspecting deception from DB, they just might have been putting the squeeze on JI to see if he knew anything. JI doesn't know if DB is in the other room trying to make it look like he was the cause of an "accident." KWIM?

Just MOO, but both scenarios are possible.

 

[Sparklin]

I'm right there with you! When I saw the photo of the beautiful deck in the back with woods all around, I felt it was extremely weird that they would be sitting on the front porch. There was a reason they did that.

I have a great back yard too, but usually am sitting out front because I'm nosy and I like to see what's going on

 

[Aedrys]

So if she was the one who opened the window that night she probably broke/bent the screen in her drunken stupor and doesn't remember it. I wonder if she doesn't remember what else happened that night and is afraid if she is questioned by police that she is likely to remember and she will not like what she finds. She made the comment herself that she was afraid to look out back because she was afraid of what she would find. There has to be a reason for that statement.

That is a curious and scary statement. I just can't fathom that someone could kill a child and hide the body while blacked out. If she truly didn't remember, then why would she be afraid she had done something? Sounds to me like she didn't have a total blackout, and maybe only remembers snippets of what happened, just enough to make her think that something bad did happen and she might have done something to Lisa. Or maybe she's just using it as a convenient excuse while knowing exactly what she did.

 

[Wanting2Help]

What would be her motive in hiding the baby's death and body? Why do you think she or anyone in the family would do that? tia

I think she snapped, did something to Lisa, and freaked out. She knew she would be found guilty because she had been drinking (and maybe more). She didnt want to be held responsible so she called someone she trusted for help. I do think she may have been drunk. I know from personal experience with a family member that if someone is scared (really scared) they can sober up real quick!

 

[SyraKelly]

I just want to say to..When I have had 5 beers or more-I can 't read the computer let alone type--LOLOL
But thats just me!!!

 

[Sparklin]

I seen someone posted the video of MT, do we know if he is wearing the same thing in last nights and the night before. I thought he was, so I figured they just played a little bit more last night, i'm not sure he change the story or embellished. Anyone have links to both nights?

I had the same thought. And even if it were a different day, it could his entire account is the same and they are only releasing different parts of it. moo =eg:
MT: the baby had a diaper on only (this is what we see/hear originally)
Q: naked except for a diaper?
MT: well a diaper and t-shirt, just no pants (this is what we see/hear next)
etc....

 

[cluciano63]

BBM

Yes, they have.

Page 6 of the State's Motion to Seal Court Records --

"On October 17, 2011 an FBI cadaver dog was brought into the residence upon consent of Irwin and Bradley. The cadaver dog indicated a positive "hit" for the scent of a deceased human in an area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed."

That is direct from LE.

State's Motion to Seal Court Records --
http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf

LE did not want the grounds for the warrant released...

 

[cowtowner]

Irwin was initially angry to discovery the kitten and the lights were on. He knew the family was in such dire financial straight that their cell phones could not make outgoing calls because of nonpayment. He was concerned about the electric bill and finding a cat at the foot of his bed.

He must have been in a bad mood when he came home to wake up DB (so early in the morning and not care about waking up the kids) about the lights and the door and the cat..my DH would have just turned off the lights, checked the kids (kiss them good night) and came to bed, not be all hell bent on the lights on...I guess if they were having money problems then maybe but even then I still do'nt see it happening..just adding more to their story IMHO

Irwin says he woke up Bradley and asked her about the alarming signs in the home. Irwin said he realized he had not checked on Lisa and rushed to do so and found her crib empty.

um why rushed? and call for panic at that time? I have left the door unlocked..by mistake and have left lights on and when I see this the next morning or my DH does he doesn't go about "rushing" around the house to check the kids...just seems odd..like adding something to the story to make it sound like they were scared of something

This discovery sent the couple into a panic. The family's three cell phones were also missing from a counter. Irwin dashed to Brando's house demanding to know whether she had Lisa. She said she did not and asked why Lisa would be there instead of her own home.

IDK maybe it's the use of the words but I would not demand from my neighbor I would be scared and shook up not knowing where my child is..almost seems like he was angry "demanding"

Are you questions the semantics of the article/author or JI?

Did the use of the word "dashed" not set off a semantic alarm for you? How many people do you know who use the word "dashed?" JI doesn't strike me as particularly British - not much of a "so I dashed..." kind of guy.

Odd that you jump on the semantics of use of the word "rushed" and "demanding" but not the fairly uncommon word "dashed."


Maybe it's worth noting that what you're quoting is a press account of his story where a writer or editor chose to use the words "rush," "dash," and "demand" (among others) and they were not all his own words.

Again, we may be wise to be very skeptical about reading a press account and assuming the words used were the actual words of the person they're writing about. If I don't see quote marks around it, then there is no guarantee the person actually used those words.

 

[annalia]

What would be her motive in hiding the baby's death and body? Why do you think she or anyone in the family would do that? tia

Panic.

Even in a accidental death, if she was drunk and accidently harmed Lisa, if she wasn't that drunk and harmed Lisa, panic can set in and everything just escalates from there.

 

[SyraKelly]

We also have to keep in mind-The neighbor is still in contact with DB-per the story yesterday..so she might have told DB what happened between she went in at 1030 & 11.30,DB can not remember anything after 10.30-until JI shows up at 3.45!
So that means the family believes Lisa was kidnapped between 10.30-2.30 am-that is 4 hrs..but if we are believe 12.15 witness
she had to been taken between 11.30-12.15 am,but we still have time to account for between 2.30-3.45 when JI comes to home

 

[Sparklin]

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: LOL, if she was as passed out drunk and blacked out drunk as she says she was...then she wouldn't even remember that she had a boyfriend, much less be alarmed that he was late...

If JI was supposed to be home around 10/10:30 then she wouldn't have been alarmed that he wasn't home when she went to bed in my opinon

 

[cowtowner]

<snip>I do think she may have been drunk. I know from personal experience with a family member that if someone is scared (really scared) they can sober up real quick!

Respectfully, no, they cannot. Being scared and the adrenaline that accompanies it cannot change the physiological process of metabolizing alcohol. It can only mask it. Your family member may been more alert, but they were nothing other than an alert drunk.

As was correctly stated above, it is a scientific and physiological reality that only thing that changes the condition of intoxication (alcohol in the blood) is time. Being more alert doesn't make one sober.

 

[frankie069]

What would be her motive in hiding the baby's death and body? Why do you think she or anyone in the family would do that? tia

I cannot answer why someone would kill their child because its not in me to do something like that, I cant fathom living without my kids. On that note, I also cannot answer what her motive would be other than maybe she was just tired of taking care of a baby or maybe she got pissed off and hurt Lisa and Lisa died which is what I think happened but thats all speculation on my part its just what I firmly believe happened. And she would have to hide the baby because if she killed her she cant let her out in the open. Autopsy would show how Lisa died then. You have no choice but to hide her little body. I hope that answered as much as I could.

 

[mck16]

Panic.

Even in a accidental death, if she was drunk and accidently harmed Lisa, if she wasn't that drunk and harmed Lisa, panic can set in and everything just escalates from there.

I see your point, but it just doesn't fit to me that she would come out later and admint to being drunk. As has been stated many times in this forum this whole thing makes no sense to me. When I think about all the facts as we know them (not many) nothing makes sense to me except abduction. I know call me 'crazy' but I cannot come to the conclusion that anyone in the family did this. And she doesn't really seem the type to me to panic. She has been very confident to the point of be hauty. I just don't know. jmo

 

[cowtowner]

Panic.

Even in a accidental death, if she was drunk and accidently harmed Lisa, if she wasn't that drunk and harmed Lisa, panic can set in and everything just escalates from there.

I generally suspected this theory back on October 5th, 6th and even 14th.

However, after a month the theory that even a sober but panicked DB - without a car, with two children at home - so cunningly and thoroughly disposed of a body that no cadaver dogs, investigators, search teams, etc. can find that body starts become overly complicated and requires so many variables, outside actors, etc. that I've come to doubt it.

 

[Sparklin]

It's in the search warrant.

The 'hit' was the reason for the search warrant, but during the actual search have we heard there was a second 'hit'??

 

[logicalgirl]

Again, according to Debbie she takes her medication once a day, in the morning.

And what exactly is a "stoop size glass of wine"? We have absolutely NO way of knowing what size servings of wine DB was drinking.

But whether anyone has an opinion or not about how snockered she must have been at 3:30 am, the fact still remains that the body processes an average sized drink at the rate of 1 hour per drink. That's not my opinion, that is a scientific fact. So regardless of how much she drank, or what size servings she had, she still had 5 hours for her body to be actively processing whatever alcohol was in her system. That is not an insignificant period of time. (IMO)

Do people who have a glass of wine at home usually have a "bar-sized" serving? So let's say she had 10 glasses of wine in 4 hours. If the body as you say takes one hour to process a glass of wine, how long does it take if you have two or three drinks in one hour? So are you saying 10 drinks would take ten hours? I'm just trying to get clear on your formula...

Up here we have a zero tolerance for alcohol when driving. If you have two drinks over a two hour period and then wait two hours before driving - be prepared for a roadside suspension because it will show up in the "blower".