FL 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #11

[rotterdam]

I think he should have been arrested that night too. I think for manslaughter. But I have no reason to believe that he was on a mission to kill a kid that night.

He was a watchman for years. Why that night would he go on a MISSION to kill?

I do not think GZ left his car with the intention to kill Tray. Rather anticipating that he could catch Tray breaking in and make a citizen's arrest/or eye witness while hoping to become closer to that coveted LE job.
But probably his anger got a hold of him and he shot Tray.
I think there might even be a remote possibility that the gun accidentally discharged while they struggled for it. But if he claimed that ,he could be arrested/charged/convicted(involuntary manslaughter) and also be sued in civil court by Tray's family. Plus he would undoubtedly lose his gun license and definitely would never become a cop
The convenient FL SYG claim was just perfect for this situation.

 

[w1df10wr]

My only question is what happened in the time between the phone disconnect for Trayvon and when the screaming started. I wish I knew what length of time that was.

7:16pm - phone call to TM girlfriend disconnected.

911 start at 7:16pm. There were 7 or 8 total? One of them has about 38 seconds of screaming before the gunshot.

7:17 - 1st officer arrives on the scene.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/29/acd.01.html - witness on 3/29 Anderson Cooper. Toward the end of the interview.

~COOPER: Was the -- you saw, essentially, two different struggles, you said, or two different -- you saw -- you saw one initially and then you saw a second one. Were they both in the exact same location?

UNIDENTIFIED EYEWITNESS: Yes.

COOPER: And was that location grass or was it sidewalk or was it concrete? Do you know?

UNIDENTIFIED EYEWITNESS: It was -- it was grass.

COOPER: It was grass. Was there a sidewalk anywhere nearby here, concrete, or was this all on grass, on ground?

UNIDENTIFIED EYEWITNESS: Well, there's grass on both sides with a sidewalk down the middle. But they were definitely closer on the area where it was all grass.~

It seems like the confrontation started right before the phone call disconnected. And ended less than a minute or two later?

 

[Bee Happy]

If GZ was on the bottom while shooting TM, wouldn't there be some type of blood on him? Maybe?

 

[Bee Happy]

I don't get it, if TM were on top, and GZ shot him, TM would fall directly onto Zimmerman, right ? one big problem is there is no blood on GZ to support this or a close range shot. GZ doesn't even appear to have any blood spatter on him :waitasec:

Not only that...his jacket doesn't even look wrinkled. His clothes are neat. It's so strange. I look worse than that after chasing my kids around.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Very interesting IMO non-racial opinion piece about this case.

http://freegotham.com/2012/03/25/words-i-never-thought-id-say/

 

[christee]

If Martin was on top of him in a kneeling position and Zimmerman pushed him he would go over backwards with his legs bent at the knees.

Hmmm...I can't remember if anyone mentioned if the knees of his jeans were wet and/or muddy?

(Thanks Doc for nudging that question outta me :biggrin

ETA: Let me clarify by adding the question could apply to both TM and GZ.

 

[Bee Happy]

Very interesting IMO non-racial opinion piece about this case.

http://freegotham.com/2012/03/25/words-i-never-thought-id-say/

From the article:

"Here are the facts as we know them to be: An unarmed 17-year old, was shot and killed by an armed private citizen, who was engaged in a neighborhood watch routine. That’s what we know happened."

Now, I heard them say the same about Zimmerman on CNN tonight. He was toting his gun while doing his neighborhood watch job. But I thought he was on the way to the store and was not patrolling?

 

[Concerned Papa]

The only way I see this working is that Trayvon stood up. With him standing over GZ - then GZ fires and the shot half-spins Trayvon around and he falls with his arms and hands underneath.



JMHO

Actually, in light of a video I've been straining my eyes looking at since yesterday, I'm thinking it went down something like this:

 

[m00c0w]

If Martin was on top of him in a kneeling position and Zimmerman pushed him he would go over backwards with his legs bent at the knees.

Yeah, but Martin may very well have still been alive at the time, or the legs could have straightened when Zimmerman was standing up/sliding out.

 

[christee]

Just discussin' papa's propensity for art. :floorlaugh:

Possible art forgery

 

[Bee Happy]

Do we know if TM died instantly?

 

[tehcloser]

Report: Trayvon Martin's brother says voice on 911 tape is Trayvon's

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...artin-brother-speaks-20120331,0,3092685.story

 

[uvamerica]

Maybe most of the bleeding was internal. Police report says CPR was done on him but doesn't mention any blood.

The police report not mentioning blood doesn't mean TM wasn't bleeding, I would think it's safe to assume someone being shot in the chest and dying would have bled. To me it's a give-in that blood was on the scene. JMO

 

[m00c0w]

If GZ was on the bottom while shooting TM, wouldn't there be some type of blood on him? Maybe?

Not necessarily.

 

[tehcloser]

Possible art forgery

Oh lawdddddddd. I thought we broke him of that. :what:

 

[TonyGatto]

7:16pm - phone call to TM girlfriend disconnected.

911 start at 7:16pm. There were 7 or 8 total? One of them has about 38 seconds of screaming before the gunshot.

7:17 - 1st officer arrives on the scene.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/29/acd.01.html - witness on 3/29 Anderson Cooper. Toward the end of the interview.

~COOPER: Was the -- you saw, essentially, two different struggles, you said, or two different -- you saw -- you saw one initially and then you saw a second one. Were they both in the exact same location?

UNIDENTIFIED EYEWITNESS: Yes.

COOPER: And was that location grass or was it sidewalk or was it concrete? Do you know?

UNIDENTIFIED EYEWITNESS: It was -- it was grass.

COOPER: It was grass. Was there a sidewalk anywhere nearby here, concrete, or was this all on grass, on ground?

UNIDENTIFIED EYEWITNESS: Well, there's grass on both sides with a sidewalk down the middle. But they were definitely closer on the area where it was all grass.~

It seems like the confrontation started right before the phone call disconnected. And ended less than a minute or two later?

Exactly. The girlfriend said she heard a commotion and what she believed to be his headset falling off and then the phone went dead. It's almost as if we need to calibrate it down to seconds, which of course we can't do.

 

[rotterdam]

In this scenario, if his dad is right about the positioning, he would have had to fall backwards and then roll over, not just fall backwards. But that doesn't make sense to me if Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman. If he was shot, he should have fallen forward, not back.

Or like a backwards salto. :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Wise Old Owl]

7:16pm - phone call to TM girlfriend disconnected.

911 start at 7:16pm. There were 7 or 8 total? One of them has about 38 seconds of screaming before the gunshot.

7:17 - 1st officer arrives on the scene.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/29/acd.01.html - witness on 3/29 Anderson Cooper. Toward the end of the interview.

~COOPER: Was the -- you saw, essentially, two different struggles, you said, or two different -- you saw -- you saw one initially and then you saw a second one. Were they both in the exact same location?

UNIDENTIFIED EYEWITNESS: Yes.

COOPER: And was that location grass or was it sidewalk or was it concrete? Do you know?

UNIDENTIFIED EYEWITNESS: It was -- it was grass.

COOPER: It was grass. Was there a sidewalk anywhere nearby here, concrete, or was this all on grass, on ground?

UNIDENTIFIED EYEWITNESS: Well, there's grass on both sides with a sidewalk down the middle. But they were definitely closer on the area where it was all grass.~

It seems like the confrontation started right before the phone call disconnected. And ended less than a minute or two later?

Yep - this confrontation didn't last long. I keep saying this - we're talking about 60 - 120 seconds. That's it.

I just don't get why GZ confronted TM. There was no reason for it - he could have gotten out of his car and continued to watch him. Trayvon had the whole length of that sidewalk to walk - GZ could have stayed in the shadows and just watched him - if he would have done that - we wouldn't be here. Remember 60 - 120 seconds is all we're talking about before the first LE arrived.

Why he chose to confront him - and I do believe GZ confronted him from what the gf says about the end of the phone call - IDK. She heard GZ say something to Trayvon - so GZ had obviously walked up to him.

And I do also believe that GZ believe that Trayvon had a weapon. His comments on the 911 call - "he's got something in his hand" "he's got his hands in his waistband" "there's something up with this guy". And continuing with that belief of GZ thinking he had a gun - I also believe when the witnesses said that right after the shooting GZ was straddling Trayvon with his hands on his back - that GZ was checking him for that weapon that GZ thought he had. Then the one witness said GZ was pacing around and not answering when people were yelling at him - that was GZ's "A-HA" moment of what he had just done.


JMHO

 

[tehcloser]

I know ya'll are gonna want to beat me, but I'm am just to tired to read back......have I missed anything major since around 4pm?

 

[Reader]

If I am not mistaken during the time that Zimmerman said he was on the through street area (or whatever he called it), he was out of his truck and had been pursueing Trayvon. The dispatcher asked him where he was or something to that effect and that was his response. I don't remember him saying that his truck was in that location.

This is one version of how Trayvon and GZ may have traveled that night:

http://www.showme.com/sh/?h=5ABSods