FL FL - Austin Stephanos & Perry Cohen, both 14, Jupiter, 24 July 2015 - #1

[Elainera]

Thanks for the clarification about the classes and life jackets.


And sorry I didn't explain:

A ditch bag is an emergency bouyant bag with things like flares, canned food, bottled water etc. it is meant to free float (you dont store it... It it meant to be out in a place where it has the best chance of falling free or floating free from the boat in an emergency situation).

An EPIRB is a personal locator beacon. There are two types: an automatic one that automatically calls for help when it hits the water (mostly used in commercial boats) and one you have to press the button yourself. You simply press the button and it sends your coordinates with a distress call. Its not a two way radio so once you hit the button, you dont know if anyone received the signal until help shows up.

Thank you! (and no need to apologize )

 

[WhiskeyBent]

We don't know for sure if they didnt have a ditch bag or EPIRB. If they had the hand held epirb, it may have sunk or something and couldn't press the button.

If anyone finds specific information, please post it. If they took the boater safety and had life jackets, they probably did have the ditch bag, though the epirb maybe not if they mostly stayed in inlets and lakes.

Boaters respect the rules for the most part, so I'll assume they had some or most of those things, if not all.

I think it has been too long though... I think the end result is the same.

I'd like to read a report when it is all done. We can all learn from these things (unfortunately). Their story will help others.

The only things known for sure that were on the boat are the cooler, the life jackets, a white bucket, fishing poles (possibly 4), Austin had white rubber fishing boots (not sure if he was wearing them), a white seat cushion, and a clear Plano tackle box with unknown lures etc inside. There has never been any mention of an EPIRB, a PLB (personal locator beacon), or any form of Ditch Bag. There wasn't even a VHF installed (or a handheld).


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[Ray_of_hope]

Hubby grew up on the ocean and he said that he and his brother went out a lot younger than 14. It was a bone of contention between his parents because his Mom was terrified. They would camp out on islands. Teens are stuck in the 'here and now' and feel invincible. Often they push the limits of parental control. Further, in Florida we have squalls that pop up quickly and can be very violent. They may only encompass a small area so it's always hard to gauge the weather here. Our job as parents is to work our way out of a job. Most of the time, we and our children do stupid things but survive. It's these rare exceptions that are sobering.

 

[Elainera]

The only things known for sure that were on the boat are the cooler, the life jackets, a white bucket, fishing poles (possibly 4), Austin had white rubber fishing boots (not sure if he was wearing them), a white seat cushion, and a clear Plano tackle box with unknown lures etc inside. There has never been any mention of an EPIRB, a PLB (personal locator beacon), or any form of Ditch Bag. There wasn't even a VHF installed (or a handheld).


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So would you say this was a poorly equipped boat for going out into the ocean? Or is it fairly common to go out without these things?

Had the boys been out on the ocean alone before I wonder? Or was this the first time they broke parental rules to stay in the inlet?

 

[whulfc86]

Interesting article from someone who teaches boat safety classes:

He taught a class last weekend of 21 people, nine of them children, including one 10-year-old who passed the course and is now legally able to operate a boat, regardless of his level of experience.

He’d like parents to look closely at their childrens’ skill levels before handing them the boat keys.

“Safety is the main thing we try to teach these people, like always wearing a life jacket, but when you’re young, you think you’ve invincible,” Cuneo said.

Safety has always been paramount to Peters, who raised three boys on the water. Once his kids began going out into the ocean, he mandated they always have a ditch bag with them, containing a waterproof radio, EPIRB (emergency position indicator radio beacon), reflectors, flares and strobe lights, a knife, rope and water.

It’s not known whether Cohen and Stephanos carried emergency supplies.

“My middle son is heading to the Bahamas by boat this weekend,” said Peters. “First thing I said is, take the ditch bag"


http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/teens-in-boats-its-common-but-parents-need-to-prac/nm7wk/

 

[WhiskeyBent]

Just for reference- I don't know exactly how far offshore this was, but this is between 1 and 2pm on Friday, offshore Jupiter. Taken by a friend from a 30 foot twin-engine boat.

If they were taking seas like this in a single-engine open transom 19-ft... I really don't even have to say it.

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[Ray_of_hope]

We don't know for sure if they didnt have a ditch bag or EPIRB. If they had the hand held epirb, it may have sunk or something and couldn't press the button.

If anyone finds specific information, please post it. If they took the boater safety and had life jackets, they probably did have the ditch bag, though the epirb maybe not if they mostly stayed in inlets and lakes.

Boaters respect the rules for the most part, so I'll assume they had some or most of those things, if not all.

I think it has been too long though... I think the end result is the same.

I'd like to read a report when it is all done. We can all learn from these things (unfortunately). Their story will help others.

I was hoping they had the best gadgets and emergency gear because they seem to come from privileged families. Like someone else pointed out though, maybe they did but couldn't access due to special circumstances.

 

[ThinkThinkThink]

Posted about 15 minutes ago: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/coast-guard-will-search-all-night-missing-florida-teens-n401391

 

[WhiskeyBent]

So would you say this was a poorly equipped boat for going out into the ocean? Or is it fairly common to go out without these things?

Had the boys been out on the ocean alone before I wonder? Or was this the first time they broke parental rules to stay in the inlet?

In my limited boating experience and opinion, this was a VERY VERY poorly equipped boat for going in the ocean.

You don't go in the ocean with no VHF. That's your main form of communication- cell phones lose signal not far from shore. There's no cell towers in the ocean. It's useless in the event of a capsize, but....

Then there's the EPIRB... Some are auto activate, some manual, some both- but all will broadcast your location.

I'm terrified of the open ocean and I'm a paranoid weirdo; but I would never have set foot on that boat to go in the ocean.


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[Elainera]

In my limited boating experience and opinion, this was a VERY VERY poorly equipped boat for going in the ocean.

You don't go in the ocean with no VHF. That's your main form of communication- cell phones lose signal not far from shore. There's no cell towers in the ocean. It's useless in the event of a capsize, but....

Then there's the EPIRB... Some are auto activate, some manual, some both- but all will broadcast your location.

I'm terrified of the open ocean and I'm a paranoid weirdo; but I would never have set foot on that boat to go in the ocean.


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I agree with all of that.

A bad and sad situation

 

[whulfc86]

I don't claim to have any boating experience, I don't, I grew up in England and had never been on a boat in my life until a few years ago. I had lived in Florida for a few years and became friends with a commercial fishing boat captain, we fished out of Pensacola. We would go out at least 20 miles offshore to fish. He grew up in Florida and had operated a boat for a long time, the other boat captain was a marine. We almost got caught in a storm once, we immediately headed back to shore even though we were 3 hours into an 8 hour paid trip. The look on these two very experienced captains told me that it was serious. We made it back before the storm really hit and we had a huge boat. They refunded us some of our money for coming back early. They always said no matter the size of your boat the storms out here have to be taken seriously each and every time, of course in case of an emergency they had every safety gadget on board. They even radioed the coast guard our co-ordinates and let them know we were heading back in to beat the storm.

I just feel like these teens had no chance, they may have had the skills to steer the boat, get it in and out of the water but they didn't have the skills or equipment to tackle being caught in a storm in the ocean when they were supposed to not leave the inlet.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Just for reference- I don't know exactly how far offshore this was, but this is between 1 and 2pm on Friday, offshore Jupiter. Taken by a friend from a 30 foot twin-engine boat.

If they were taking seas like this in a single-engine open transom 19-ft... I really don't even have to say it.

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Yes, Whiskey....as I mentioned ... My brothers's friend who is an experienced 50 yr old in a 45 ft boat turned back in to shore at the same time that day. 6-8 ft swells at 2-3 mins apart w/wind gusts of 40 mph.
His radar gadget broke in half while hauling in...but he made it back; albeit a tad shaken up.

 

[persimmon]

So would you say this was a poorly equipped boat for going out into the ocean? Or is it fairly common to go out without these things?

Had the boys been out on the ocean alone before I wonder? Or was this the first time they broke parental rules to stay in the inlet?

I think the boat itself was not safe on the open ocean but fine for fishing within the confines of the inlet. From what I have seen it looks like a boat you would use on a lake. They made a mistake but I pray they are found.

 

[Elainera]

Just for reference- I don't know exactly how far offshore this was, but this is between 1 and 2pm on Friday, offshore Jupiter. Taken by a friend from a 30 foot twin-engine boat.

If they were taking seas like this in a single-engine open transom 19-ft... I really don't even have to say it.

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When a boat capsizes in these kind of waves, what are the chances to survive this with a life vest, and without a life vest?

If they didn't have a vest on would they have drowned immediately after going overboard? Or can you stay on top of it?

How long did this storm on Friday last? Was this an hour, or hours?

 

[WhiskeyBent]

Unfortunately, all we can do at this point is wait for news. I'm not sure how much longer the USCG is going to search, in all honestly.

Whenever they *do* pull out, the backlash is going to be horrendous. I understand the immediate need for exposure that was required for extra eyes on the search, but now there's over 183,000 people in the FB group that are going to absolutely lose their minds if the boys aren't found.

Regardless of who did what, it's a crappy situation that's being made worse by the media frenzy and speculation.

I'm not sure if they are basing the search time on the fact that they don't know *when* they went in the water. If it was Friday, this is Day 6. If it wasn't until just before the boat was found Sunday (not likely), then it's Day 4. They say after 4-5 days there's little chance of survival without a boat; so that may be the deciding factor.





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[WhiskeyBent]

When a boat capsizes in these kind of waves, what are the chances to survive this with a life vest, and without a life vest?

If they didn't have a vest on would they have drowned immediately after going overboard? Or can you stay on top of it?

How long did this storm on Friday last? Was this an hour, or hours?

Without a vest? Not very good. With a vest, slightly higher perhaps- depending on how quickly you get away from the boat (which could easily hit you in the head or any other number of what ifs)

I'm not 100% sure on how long the storm lasted, but in the summer they roll in fast, and they roll out fast. I'd venture to guess maybe an hour at the most, but it was intense.


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[Hiandmighty]

I think the boat itself was not safe on the open ocean but fine for fishing within the confines of the inlet. From what I have seen it looks like a boat you would use on a lake. They made a mistake but I pray they are found.

I was just coming to say the same thing. They had a bay boat, for bay boating. Its not a deep v hull. We have deep V hull, which means we have a blue water boat which means we fish and boat mostly within 1-50 miles offshore and marshes and inlets. So the boat was poorly equipped in the fact that it was the wrong boat for the conditions. A 19 foot is on the small side too.

Can it be done? Yes. It adds risk though and when you add the harsh weather-- yu see what happened.

 

[KristiA]

Unfortunately, all we can do at this point is wait for news. I'm not sure how much longer the USCG is going to search, in all honestly.

Whenever they *do* pull out, the backlash is going to be horrendous. I understand the immediate need for exposure that was required for extra eyes on the search, but now there's over 183,000 people in the FB group that are going to absolutely lose their minds if the boys aren't found.

Regardless of who did what, it's a crappy situation that's being made worse by the media frenzy and speculation.

I'm not sure if they are basing the search time on the fact that they don't know *when* they went in the water. If it was Friday, this is Day 6. If it wasn't until just before the boat was found Sunday (not likely), then it's Day 4. They say after 4-5 days there's little chance of survival without a boat; so that may be the deciding factor.





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This.

You hit the nail on the head, WhiskeyBent. When this official search concludes, people are going to lose their minds on that fb page. Realists are not welcome on that page.


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[WhiskeyBent]

I think the boat itself was not safe on the open ocean but fine for fishing within the confines of the inlet. From what I have seen it looks like a boat you would use on a lake. They made a mistake but I pray they are found.

It's a fishing boat, albeit a small one. It would be fine for good weather close-to-shore fishing (with a VHF at the minimum) and it's awesome for cruising the intracoastal and taking to the sandbar (nearby in Tequesta).


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[Sulamith]

I have to wonder why these boys were going out into the water when many boats were coming into shore.

Why do a lot of people think these boys are still alive?

Do those boys have better skills/resources than the sailors on the USS Indianapolis had?

Is the Pacific Ocean more dangerous than the Atlantic Ocean?

Please, school me.

[video=youtube;u9S41Kplsbs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9S41Kplsbs[/video]


http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-worst-shark-attack-in-history-25715092/?no-ist