I'm not sure what side I am on right now...mentally ill or evil. I do know this I have a brother that is a drug addict. I have watched him withdraw from drugs many times and I have never seen the look on his face that was on hers at the time of her arrest. Something is wrong with her, whether physical or mental, I have no idea.
GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #1
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Yes, that is why she is going to die. Not mental, not anything....... we, as Mothers can relate to. SHE WILL DIE.
Aw, thanks.Those things hurt my heart, too. Covering her babies with blankets and moving her baby to the bed shows a shred of "mothering" still in her (in a twisted, confusing way). Hearing of that tiny bit of maternal action from JPS makes it less cut-and-dry. It makes it harder to comprehend because it contradicts everything we are inclined to think about her, that she's a cold, hard, evil, callous and crazy child-killer. It's easier for us (OK, at least me) to digest if I can think hard thoughts about hard actions. Seeing her show that tiny bit of concern over her babies' comfort (again, in a twisted and confusing way) doesn't fit with hard though ts about hard actions.
If she wasn't extremely mentally ill when she murdered her children then why didn't she make a run for it. She certainly, if not ill, had the time, money, intelligence and opportunity to make it to Mexico or wherever she choose. If not mentally ill, then why did she sit there with the bodies and send an alerting email to her mother because she had to know what was gonna happen to her when she was caught. I'm sorry folks, I'm leaning towards mental illness.
SuziQ
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FWIW, I think many of us only started discussing the mentally ill possibility because of watching the perp walk video. The lady looked downright cra-azy. It's the first time I've seen that with a perp and I'm very curious at to what was the cause here. I'm definitely not looking to give her an excuse. IMO, most people who kill are personality disordered that can be DX'd as a mental illness. It does not mean they are insane and can look forward to getting off easy in court. It won't happen. Mental Illness is not an excuse but can explain what happened. Don't we want to know what happened to try to prevent it from happening again?
GetSmart
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I think she she snapped .. Head injury? There is a reason they are not disclosing "previous health condition"
This bit about the gun purchase has me stumped.. it does lead to thinking premeditation ..
What I have been thinking about is did she have something in the back of her mind to just do herself in ..but it all changed some how .. or was she going to kill them ALL hubby included either when he got back home after the murders or all at same time and she jumped the gun .. ..
I am just thinking out loud here... JMO
This bit about the gun purchase has me stumped.. it does lead to thinking premeditation ..
What I have been thinking about is did she have something in the back of her mind to just do herself in ..but it all changed some how .. or was she going to kill them ALL hubby included either when he got back home after the murders or all at same time and she jumped the gun .. ..
I am just thinking out loud here... JMO
Gozgals
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I agree. I think she is evil and she premeditated the murder of her two sweet angels. She destroyed lives.
I do not think she is mentally ill nor do I want to make excuses for her behavior and find the reason for what she did. I just want justice for her family. She knew what she was doing (IMO) She planned it, executed the deed, and covered the bodies. I am still horrified by what she did.
Maybe I am blind because of how heinous this crime is but I still feel she is just evil and didn't want the responsibility of being a parent anymore.
Rest in Peace Sweet Angels
Goz
I appreciate your input but this is what has me puzzled: If she is not mentally ill, then she willingly chose LWOP over escaping to another country and to freedom. She chose LWOP over being a mom. I'm a mom, it's a tough job sometimes, but no way it's tougher than life behind bars (don't have experience with jail, just assuming) --this woman worked for NSA, she is knowledgeable about what would happen to her when apprehended (IF she is in her right mind as you suggest).
When have we seen a mom murder her kids and sit there with the bodies and send out a message that summoned help, and admit to the murders when LE arrived???? For me, only Andrea Yates comes to mind. Now if you ask when have we seen a mom murder her kids and try to get out of it, then Susan Smith comes to mind (along with others). Andrea Yates was found, I believe correctly, to be insane, Susan Smith was found sane is currently serving a life sentence in my fine state for her actions.
Psychotic breaks happen, insanity happens---she should spend the rest of her life behind bars, but at least first in a mental ward and then re-evaluated. I'm speaking as someone who has had great problems with major depression and I know it's as real as diabetes--thank God I've never had a psychotic break but do suspect my daughter has. The brain can "break"--it happens.
I appreciate your view. I, for one, suspected mental instability the minute I learned she was still in the house/yard were the bodies where located and admitted her actions to LE when they arrived. Perhaps she has Dissociative Identity Disorder, or perhaps she had a psychotic break, is psychotic and/or mentally insane.
Not to be argumentative, just thinking out loud.
How is buying a gun days ahead of committing a murder any different than filling a tub with water and chasing down your child in order to drown them? Both require "premeditation", do they not? So can there be premeditation in insanity? It would appear so if the Andrea Yates verdict was/is correct.
Again, just thinking out loud. And MOO..............
How is buying a gun days ahead of committing a murder any different than filling a tub with water and chasing down your child in order to drown them? Both require "premeditation", do they not? So can there be premeditation in insanity? It would appear so if the Andrea Yates verdict was/is correct.
Again, just thinking out loud. And MOO..............
Jaxson
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I believe there are people who are born without conscience, both men and women. I believe there are women born without the mothering 'instinct' and they can kill their children in some cases. Or sell them, or give them away, or lock them in the basement and torture them. I have read lots of reports of abusive mothers.
People who are evil typically hide their crimes, run away, attempt to clean the crime scene, dispose of murder weapons, lie about what they have done, etc
I have to withhold judgment in this case until I know what happened. I can't say this woman was evil when I don't have many facts. I am really torn in this case, but right now I don't see evil.
I know we judge men and women differently. Mental illness seems to be more acceptable in women than men and drug and alchohol problems are more acceptable in men than women in our society it seems. We laugh at drunk men and their antics and are disgusted by drunk women. ( I don't mean all of us , just society in general)
I would like to hear more from her husband. He has stated he won't support her in the aftermath...is it because he feels she is evil and that she is not mentally ill? I need more information before I fall on either side of the fence.
People who are evil typically hide their crimes, run away, attempt to clean the crime scene, dispose of murder weapons, lie about what they have done, etc
I have to withhold judgment in this case until I know what happened. I can't say this woman was evil when I don't have many facts. I am really torn in this case, but right now I don't see evil.
I know we judge men and women differently. Mental illness seems to be more acceptable in women than men and drug and alchohol problems are more acceptable in men than women in our society it seems. We laugh at drunk men and their antics and are disgusted by drunk women. ( I don't mean all of us , just society in general)
I would like to hear more from her husband. He has stated he won't support her in the aftermath...is it because he feels she is evil and that she is not mentally ill? I need more information before I fall on either side of the fence.
strawberry
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Earlier articles said Beau was killed on the way home from soccer practice. The coach says he missed his first practice ever on Thursday, so he never made it there. He must have been shot after he got in the car. I wonder if the "warning shot" was simply that she missed her "target." Grrr
http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=172118&catid=8
http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=172118&catid=8
DesertCookie
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I don't think there is any difference... premeditation does not preclude an insanity defense. It's the issue of whether they knew right from wrong at the time of committing the murder. Yates was definitely insane IMO as she claims to have killed her kids to save them from Satan (acting out of love in a twisted way). JPS says she killed her's because they talked back (she wanted to punish them). With what we know of the JPS's case so far, it seems to me her defense will have a tough time with proving an insantiy plea.
kgeaux
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Speaking from a strictly layperson point of view here! No legal training, none whatsoever!
I believe that legally insane persons can and do premeditate crimes all the time. Isn't the legal definition of legal insanity that the person truly doesn't know the difference between right and wrong? Let's use Kgeaux as our test case for insanity: If I were insane, and believed (just for instance) that God wanted me to kill every third person I saw on Thursday afternoon, I could make plans as to how I would accomplish "his will." Arm my self, maybe visit the place ahead of time to see how I could best position myself. I would be convinced that I was doing the right thing when I prepared, and I would be convinced that I was doing the right thing when I murdered every third person on Thursday afternoon.
Legally, I would be considered insane because I didn't know what I was doing was wrong, couldn't even tell the difference between right and wrong! On a PERSONAL note: I also believe that legally insane persons can be quite convinced that what they are doing is right while they acknowledge that society at large would find their actions to be wrong.
Hopeful One
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Don't get me wrong - I feel no allegiance to her whatsoever. She needs to be locked up forever and I don't feel one bit bad about that. I'm just saying that I think for some of us, it's hard to wrap our brains around the fact that a mother, who is supposed to protect her children at all costs, could do this and NOT be crazy. My only point as that it DOES happen.
Hopeful One
Blessed are the cracked for they are the ones who
Is it possible that during that perp walk, she was suffering from SEVERE panic and anxiety over the realization of what she had done? Maybe when she killed them, she was in a drug-induced psychosis (not making excuses at all, just coming up with a possible scenario). When she came to, when the cops found her, she was now lucid and realized that she had killed her children. Maybe an intense panic and fear paralyzed her. Is that possible? Just thinking out loud, forgive me if my ideas are idiotic.
strawberry
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Is it possible that during that perp walk, she was suffering from SEVERE panic and anxiety over the realization of what she had done? Maybe when she killed them, she was in a drug-induced psychosis (not making excuses at all, just coming up with a possible scenario). When she came to, when the cops found her, she was now lucid and realized that she had killed her children. Maybe an intense panic and fear paralyzed her. Is that possible? Just thinking out loud, forgive me if my ideas are idiotic.
My first impression of the video was that she was panicked fwiw. And panic also causes dry mouth which could be the mouth movements.
Is it possible that during that perp walk, she was suffering from SEVERE panic and anxiety over the realization of what she had done? Maybe when she killed them, she was in a drug-induced psychosis (not making excuses at all, just coming up with a possible scenario). When she came to, when the cops found her, she was now lucid and realized that she had killed her children. Maybe an intense panic and fear paralyzed her. Is that possible? Just thinking out loud, forgive me if my ideas are idiotic.
I think anything is possible. I would like to know what the undisclosed medical condition is that she has. I wonder if that condition would explain that look. That look has bothered me.
Shock, panic and dry mouth do not account for what you see. Her gait, eyes, and mouth movements are recognizably the result of either a pre-existing neurological condition or treatment, or an acute manifestation or exacerbation of medication or illness-related abnormal movements.
not_my_kids
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Aside from the fact that what she did was reprehensible and unforgivable, maybe some of us are so thrown by this one because of the way it happened.
For me, I think that most of my problem with just pronouncing her evil or crazy comes from the level of organization. She did very organized things to pull this off. She bought the gun, she bought the ammo, she kept her children feeling safe enough that they didn't call for help ahead of time, she separated them in order to attack them, the list goes on.
On the other hand, she did very disorganized things, at the same time. She did not leave the scene, she did not clean herself up, she let a message out to someone close to her that did alert them to trouble, she made no effort to hide the bodies or her actions.
She moved at least her daughter to a comfortable place and covered her. That's a sign of caring, and so damn out of place among everything else here.
That's what's screwing me up. If the entire thing were highly organized, I'd call her evil. If it were completely disorganized, I'd call her crazy, maybe still evil. But this is all over the map, and that's why I can't wrap my head around it.
For me, I think that most of my problem with just pronouncing her evil or crazy comes from the level of organization. She did very organized things to pull this off. She bought the gun, she bought the ammo, she kept her children feeling safe enough that they didn't call for help ahead of time, she separated them in order to attack them, the list goes on.
On the other hand, she did very disorganized things, at the same time. She did not leave the scene, she did not clean herself up, she let a message out to someone close to her that did alert them to trouble, she made no effort to hide the bodies or her actions.
She moved at least her daughter to a comfortable place and covered her. That's a sign of caring, and so damn out of place among everything else here.
That's what's screwing me up. If the entire thing were highly organized, I'd call her evil. If it were completely disorganized, I'd call her crazy, maybe still evil. But this is all over the map, and that's why I can't wrap my head around it.
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