FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

[Truth Prevails]

Based on an entry in the podcast, police calculated that if Jennifer filled up her tank in Fort Lauderdale and drove straight to work and straight home from work, the remaining fuel in her tank, when the car was found, would not have allowed the abductor to have gone very far. This is such a puzzle to me, where could he have taken her and why such a short distance?

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This is why I don't think he took Jennifer anywhere in her car.

Of course, I'm aware that consideration must be given to the opinions that the perpetrator could have refilled her gas tank--for example, if he/she knew they had driven Jenn's car for five miles or twenty miles, they could have done the math and added the appropriate amount of gas to the car.

I dunno, though--especially if this was a morning abduction, exactly how much time would this person have had? One of the few things we can be sure of is the car was parked at the HOG at practically high noon on the 24th.

 

[Skully]

I think the person lived and worked in Orlando. Lived close enough that they could walk to her condo, may not have had a car. So just for sake of a theory, lets says he's a security cop or a rent a cop, hired to watch the construction site. Or a the condos at night. Maybe he gets a ride to work, or lives close enough to walk there. Would Jennifer be afraid to answer the door to him? Or go outside to see something, if the ruse was about her car? I don't know if they had security there, or even if this guy worked there, you can buy uniforms and put them on. But I think this is what happened, he saw here, watched her, knew her car. He may have just hit it lucky that night and the guests were gone and she was home. So she goes out or he comes in and he forces her into the car. I think she went out, because her purse is gone, but he could have picked it up, make it look like she went to work to buy more time. If he lived close, he had to get rid of the car, can't have it at his place. So that is my thoughts.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I think the person lived and worked in Orlando. Lived close enough that they could walk to her condo ...

Agreed.

... ,may not have had a car.

I'm undecided on this.

So just for sake of a theory, lets says he's a security cop or a rent a cop, hired to watch the construction site. Or a the condos at night. Maybe he gets a ride to work, or lives close enough to walk there. Would Jennifer be afraid to answer the door to him? Or go outside to see something, if the ruse was about her car?

This is an excellent theory. However, I think the answer may be: yes--she would have been afraid. We know she loved her new condo, but she was uncomfortable with all the "workers" in the vicinity. I have even heard some people state that she felt "watched". I find that interesting because it would cause a totally different feeling then the derogatory feeling a woman gets when being "cat called" by men.

I guess the question would then become: would she have pushed aside her fear? I would give a grudging maybe to that--only because we known something happened to Jennifer.

I don't know if they had security there, or even if this guy worked there, you can buy uniforms and put them on.

Regarding security, they had the very minimum and even that was very wanting. Apparently there was no fencing around the back of the complex at all. The gate in the front was usually left opened to easily accommodate the large amount of construction vehicles coming and going. Plus, if there did happen to be a guard on duty, there was a huge language barrier and the license plate numbers of any visiting guest were not even properly recorded.

Also, a month before Jennifer disappeared, someone broke into the office and stole a complete set of keys to every condo in the building. And Mr. Kesse said that they left blank keys lying on the office desk and they had a key making machine right in back of it.

Another thing that might be worth mentioning is the cell phone reception in Jennifer's condo was poor, causing her to go out on her 2nd floor balcony when she needed to use it. Now, for this reason, she usually used her landline when at home. However, she spoke to her father, mother, brother, and quite a few friends on the evening of the 23rd. I wonder if she left her balcony unlocked for any period of time.

But, more to your question, it does sound like they had some of the type of security you are wondering about. Uniforms of some sort most likely would have been required. (I think you can even rent them.)

But I think this is what happened, he saw here, watched her, knew her car. He may have just hit it lucky that night and the guests were gone and she was home.

He was a lucky SOB, for sure; but he didn't have to rely on luck to know Jennifer was home alone on a Monday night. If, as you suggest in your prior sentence, he observed her movements; he would have been all too aware.

Here, I'm referring to Jenn visiting her boyfriend at his condo in another city one weekend; and her boyfriend visiting her at her condo the next weekend.

If something was planned, Monday night would have been the night to plan it.

Another thought I have on this is basically it sounds like a serial killer's modus operandi. Surely after 12 years, he would have struck again. Also--most of them, but not all of them--enjoy having their victim's remains found.

So she goes out or he comes in ...

I know it had to be one or the other, but I'm forever changing my mind on which one I believe.

... and he forces her into the car. I think she went out, because her purse is gone, but he could have picked it up, make it look like she went to work to buy more time.

You know, the podcast brought up some interesting new information about Jenn's purse. Now they are saying Jenn did not have the brown purse with her that they first thought. Apparently, the Kesse's found that purse in her unpacked luggage. So, they believe a purse is missing, but no description is available.

I find that odd. Not the fact that her brown purse was found in her unpacked luggage, but how could it be known a purse is missing if no description is available? Maybe they think she bought a new one while on her vacation, but never showed it to anyone. I can't come up with anything else.

And all of the above depends on the fact that law enforcement does not have "a purse" in their possession--locked up in their storage locker--where they have all the items that were seized from Jennifer's vehicle, mostly from the trunk is my understanding. Apparently, no-one knows exactly what those items are.

If he lived close, he had to get rid of the car, can't have it at his place. So that is my thoughts.

Yes, I believe that is why Jenn's vehicle was moved. I think moving it over to the HOG also suggests he was familiar with the neighborhood.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

 

[SpanishMossAntiques]

Jennifer was a tall, strong woman - very, very muscular. If some stranger had grabbed her, I have no doubt she would have fought back, and fought hard. There would have to have been a weapon involved to subdue her immediately otherwise. So, we have to ask, if she was grabbed, why was there no evidence at all of any confrontation at the condo or lot? When I was in LE and we fought with someone hard there would usually be blood (mine or the subject's) on the ground, clumps of hair, pieces of torn clothing, personal articles, etc.

I think the person lived and worked in Orlando. Lived close enough that they could walk to her condo, may not have had a car. So just for sake of a theory, lets says he's a security cop or a rent a cop, hired to watch the construction site. Or a the condos at night. Maybe he gets a ride to work, or lives close enough to walk there. Would Jennifer be afraid to answer the door to him? Or go outside to see something, if the ruse was about her car? I don't know if they had security there, or even if this guy worked there, you can buy uniforms and put them on. But I think this is what happened, he saw here, watched her, knew her car. He may have just hit it lucky that night and the guests were gone and she was home. So she goes out or he comes in and he forces her into the car. I think she went out, because her purse is gone, but he could have picked it up, make it look like she went to work to buy more time. If he lived close, he had to get rid of the car, can't have it at his place. So that is my thoughts.

 

[Skully]

thank you for the feedback. It helps to look at this from all sides. I do think that if a security guard knocked on her door and told her that someone did something to her car, she would have gone out with him to look. At that point, he could have used a taser or the threat of a gun. Or there could have been another person with him, waiting by the car. At any point, I hope that any security companies and employees were looked into. 12 years ago, I don't know how well these companies did background checks.

 

[Ozoner]

thank you for the feedback. It helps to look at this from all sides. I do think that if a security guard knocked on her door and told her that someone did something to her car, she would have gone out with him to look. At that point, he could have used a taser or the threat of a gun. Or there could have been another person with him, waiting by the car. At any point, I hope that any security companies and employees were looked into. 12 years ago, I don't know how well these companies did background checks.

A clean background check doesn't necessarily mean anything. Plenty of known serial killers would have passed a background check prior to being caught.

 

[JnRyan]

Jennifer was a tall, strong woman - very, very muscular. If some stranger had grabbed her, I have no doubt she would have fought back, and fought hard. There would have to have been a weapon involved to subdue her immediately otherwise. So, we have to ask, if she was grabbed, why was there no evidence at all of any confrontation at the condo or lot? When I was in LE and we fought with someone hard there would usually be blood (mine or the subject's) on the ground, clumps of hair, pieces of torn clothing, personal articles, etc.

If Jennifer was taken at her car like some suspect, then that is what I find puzzling. Look at the Jodi Huisentruit abduction. Jodi's hair dryer, shoes and some jewelry were found next to where she was abducted next to her car in the early morning.

 

[rd_jfc]

LOL That's where my thoughts went, too. I even entertained the idea of a bowl of cereal, but that would leave dishes.

Apparently, all the dishes were in the dishwasher--as if Jenn's brother had done a load before he left.

Maybe a cup of soup? At least at one point Mrs. Kesse said there was a rinsed cup in the dish rack on the counter top. And Mr. Kesse said Jennifer rarely drank coffee.

I know if I was home for any length of time, there would be some evidence that I ate or drank something. Jenn was a lovely slim young woman, but she wasn't bone thin.

It sounds so silly, but her very last known movements should have been considered.

Can't emphasize enough how true that is. Nothing should be glossed over. And everything has been glossed over in Jennfer's disappearance.

 

[rd_jfc]

thank you for the feedback. It helps to look at this from all sides. I do think that if a security guard knocked on her door and told her that someone did something to her car, she would have gone out with him to look. At that point, he could have used a taser or the threat of a gun. Or there could have been another person with him, waiting by the car. At any point, I hope that any security companies and employees were looked into. 12 years ago, I don't know how well these companies did background checks.

There are several thought provoking posts today. Thanks. I absolutely agree, someone knocking on her door and saying Security when asked who's there would get the door open. It's just a matter of sounding authoritative. That takes a little experience.

I am a little flummoxed at all these things I'm seeing last few days about not knowing what was missing, not knowing what purse is missing (is that an assumption? I hate assumptions!), and from last year this thing about new shoes and some kind of she must have gone to work because some outfit is thought to be missing that would have gone well with new shoes that are missing etc. I haven't seen such disorganized thinking since the DC Police in Chandra's case. (On other hand I haven't followed several thousand cases in the interim, I'm sure there were others. Seems to come with the territory in missing cases.)

And to top that, the posts indicate the Orlando Police won't even tell Jennifer's parents what was found in her car if anything so the parents can determine what is missing. The police probably think they're being smart assuming someone in the family could be the murderer, treating them that way anyway, although how telling he entire family what was found helps a murderer I can't begin to guess.

But another angle on this is a lot of stuff is missing from Jennifer's condo. Whether any of it was found In Jennifer's car can be helpful to understand, but irrelevant in sorting out what Jennifer left with, what was maybe left in her car, and done without assuming anything (oh,she must have taken a purse, she must have been wearing her new shoes, she must have been going to work, etc,.)

And then we have this post by Drew Kesse a few years ago with very specific information about both phones being essentially disabled and then like it never happened. Well look, either someone was feeding Kesse a line of bull which is not something you just shrug off and ignore, you say this was information that we've determined is not trustworthy etc., and why you thought it was trustworthy then and why not now.

That is not trivial information. It was technical information and in fact maybe the OPD suppressed any more talk about it with a warning to the Kesses. Who knows. It's like all any one involved in this wants to do is show a poster of Jennifer and her disappearance will be solved. Sorry, doesn't work that way.

 

[liz b.]

Can't emphasize enough how true that is. Nothing should be glossed over. And everything has been glossed over in Jennfer's disappearance.

Agree. Especially with regards to the morning. Always thought there should have been some kind of evidence of a morning routine of JK's. Was part of why I think something happened the night before. Also : last conversation she had on the landline phone was with her BF. During that convo, someone knocked on her door. After that convo no one ever heard from her again. The person who knocked on her door is the person who abducted and killed her. jmo/

 

[Skully]

So one thing that could be done, if it hasn't bee already, is see if there was security for her condo, if so, look up employment records. Check if any of the guards live close, had a valid licence, if not why? Do backgrounds checks to date. Any associates they had, check them out too, for a criminal record. It would be a place to start, then interview any of friends, family and co workers.

 

[Truth Prevails]

There are several thought provoking posts today. Thanks. I absolutely agree, someone knocking on her door and saying Security when asked who's there would get the door open. It's just a matter of sounding authoritative. That takes a little experience.

I am a little flummoxed at all these things I'm seeing last few days about not knowing what was missing, not knowing what purse is missing (is that an assumption? I hate assumptions!), and from last year this thing about new shoes and some kind of she must have gone to work because some outfit is thought to be missing that would have gone well with new shoes that are missing etc. I haven't seen such disorganized thinking since the DC Police in Chandra's case. (On other hand I haven't followed several thousand cases in the interim, I'm sure there were others. Seems to come with the territory in missing cases.)

And to top that, the posts indicate the Orlando Police won't even tell Jennifer's parents what was found in her car if anything so the parents can determine what is missing. The police probably think they're being smart assuming someone in the family could be the murderer, treating them that way anyway, although how telling he entire family what was found helps a murderer I can't begin to guess.

But another angle on this is a lot of stuff is missing from Jennifer's condo. Whether any of it was found In Jennifer's car can be helpful to understand, but irrelevant in sorting out what Jennifer left with, what was maybe left in her car, and done without assuming anything (oh,she must have taken a purse, she must have been wearing her new shoes, she must have been going to work, etc,.)

And then we have this post by Drew Kesse a few years ago with very specific information about both phones being essentially disabled and then like it never happened. Well look, either someone was feeding Kesse a line of bull which is not something you just shrug off and ignore, you say this was information that we've determined is not trustworthy etc., and why you thought it was trustworthy then and why not now.

That is not trivial information. It was technical information and in fact maybe the OPD suppressed any more talk about it with a warning to the Kesses. Who knows. It's like all any one involved in this wants to do is show a poster of Jennifer and her disappearance will be solved. Sorry, doesn't work that way.

This comment sums "the situation" up very, very accurately. imo

Regarding the bold by me: I don't think it is an assumption. I think it is what Mrs. Kesse believes.

Believe it or not, I just spent a couple of hours searching through Unconcluded podcasts looking for the episode where Mrs. Kesse discussed this in her own words, but I couldn't find it. It actually proved to be a wonderful review, as I came across everything but what I was searching for.

I found lots of comments discussing the brown purse, but I still can't link the episode. I'm going to take a break and resume my search later tonight or tomorrow. I'm pretty sure it was really brought up in an actual episode, not just Facebook posts--which I know I can't link or quote here.

The following might be interesting: (It should enlarge enough to read if you click on it).


https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/vicap/missing-persons/jennifer-joyce-kesse

The above is from the FBI ViCAP page on Jenn and Mrs. Kesse pointed out how Jennifer's briefcase is not listed as missing by them so they are not sure if it was in the trunk and therefore seized by LE. (And how they were not given a list as to what was seized--but that is in my own words). Or if it is really missing.

And if I recall correctly, it was through discussing this, that Mrs. Kesse mentioned she had found Jenn's brown purse while she was unpacking the remaining luggage that Jenn hadn't unpacked.

And then I'm pretty sure she went on to say that she knew a purse was missing but she couldn't offer a description.

What I'm not sure of is if she is thinking a purse of Jennifer's must be missing because the ViCAP page lists one as missing; or does the FBI think a purse was missing because Mr. and Mrs. Kesse told them one was missing--during the initial reports maybe?

I know they still have the picture of Jenn's brown purse up on their website, as if it is still missing.

I have myself confused.

(I will look some more for that episode, though; and if I can't find it I will let you know that, too. But I haven't given up yet.)

 

[Myserty64]

This case is enough to drive one to the edge.

There is a POI that neither the height or gender can be agreed upon.

There is no body, no defined crime scene and no witnesses.

The original investigating officers didn't take written notes.

Jennifer's condo wasn't processed.

The grainy security camera pictures were released long after the event.

The FBI appeared to lose interest in the case.

I wonder if interviews with suspects were bungled as well.

 

[SpanishMossAntiques]

I still go back to the old rule: The last one to see her alive is most likely the suspect. Jenn and her BF took a very romantic trip, yet he states that they had not gotten to the point where they said 'I love you to one another' - yet, they were together for a year! Something about that just doesn't sit well with me; Jennifer seem like the type to be able to make a hard decision and stick with it. When they got back from the trip, did she break up with him? After all, her last call was to him...

Monday, Jan 23, 2006
-6:00AM - Jennifer left her Rob?s and drove directly to work at Westgate Resorts in Ocoee, FL. She worked a full day and left work at about 6PM.
-PM - Jennifer spoke to her parents; she also spoke to her brother Logan. He said everything was normal? she told him about her trip? she seemed happy. She also spoke to Logan's friend about shipping his cell phone back to him.
-9:57PM? Jennifer called her boyfriend Rob. Jennifer was in bed, was tired from the vacation, and had a long day at work. They talked briefly, they both said they missed each other and were looking forward to the next time they were going to spend with each other (clearly, this is what Rob said).

This case is enough to drive one to the edge.

There is a POI that neither the height or gender can be agreed upon.

There is no body, no defined crime scene and no witnesses.

The original investigating officers didn't take written notes.

Jennifer's condo wasn't processed.

The grainy security camera pictures were released long after the event.

The FBI appeared to lose interest in the case.

I wonder if interviews with suspects were bungled as well.

 

[Cherry]

Were all of her coworkers interviewed? Was she recently promoted or did she have any issues w anyone at work? It's almost as if the moment she was home, she was taken. Always grateful for new eyes. I need to focus on her life instead of the perp and the car. We've all seen where that tunnel vision led. Focus on her life, her phone records six mos before, if possible. Focus on Everything six mos before. Everyone and everything. xo

 

[wpaylor]

I have been listening to the Unconcluded Podcast after learning about them on Websleuths. The one prevailing theme from all of Jennifer's friends when describing her is dependable, reliable, strong, says what she thinks, not gullible, etc. I also learned that she was an intern for the company that she worked for in college and then was hired permanently at that same company when she graduated, which is very impressive and shows that the company valued her work and obviously she was very good at her job. I am wondering if Jennifer could have possibly found financial discrepancies in the company's books attributed to one of their employees and that employee planned and carried out her abduction so that she couldn't report them. That person could have hired someone to park her car after the abduction. Probably this theory has been presented before, but it would answer a lot of questions for me.

 

[SpanishMossAntiques]

A company of that size is audited regularly (often by an outside firm); while anything is certainly possible, I would say it's extremely doubtful. Also, most companies segregate their financial records and confine them to only those who need access to that particular information, and even then, usually only pieces are available - so that way it prevents employees from committing financial fraud. When I worked as a Corporate Investigator, my main areas of concern in this respect (of whom I would pay close attention to) were the CEO, CFO, and the COO - along with their secretaries and the Board. I worked closely with our outside auditors, reporting to them immediately anything that I found that was out-of-the-ordinary. I also had IT set up a 'ping' that would be automatically sent to me if anyone accessed specific confidential financial documents - I'm sure her company had something similar in place as well. But yeah, Jennifer more then likely did not even have access, let alone a password, to any sensitive financial documents concerning the company. Anyhow, I suspect that the person who abducted her was someone she was very close to, had trusted implicitly, and had absolutely no reason to question. This was no stranger,but rather someone in her closest social circle... I suspect it happened on Monday night... I also go back to the old rule: The last one to see a victim alive is most often the suspect (as is the one who finds the body).

I have been listening to the Unconcluded Podcast after learning about them on Websleuths. The one prevailing theme from all of Jennifer's friends when describing her is dependable, reliable, strong, says what she thinks, not gullible, etc. I also learned that she was an intern for the company that she worked for in college and then was hired permanently at that same company when she graduated, which is very impressive and shows that the company valued her work and obviously she was very good at her job. I am wondering if Jennifer could have possibly found financial discrepancies in the company's books attributed to one of their employees and that employee planned and carried out her abduction so that she couldn't report them. That person could have hired someone to park her car after the abduction. Probably this theory has been presented before, but it would answer a lot of questions for me.

 

[JnRyan]

I have been listening to the Unconcluded Podcast after learning about them on Websleuths. The one prevailing theme from all of Jennifer's friends when describing her is dependable, reliable, strong, says what she thinks, not gullible, etc. I also learned that she was an intern for the company that she worked for in college and then was hired permanently at that same company when she graduated, which is very impressive and shows that the company valued her work and obviously she was very good at her job. I am wondering if Jennifer could have possibly found financial discrepancies in the company's books attributed to one of their employees and that employee planned and carried out her abduction so that she couldn't report them. That person could have hired someone to park her car after the abduction. Probably this theory has been presented before, but it would answer a lot of questions for me.

Too many variables here to know if fraud that could have been occurring and detected. The business world is loaded with cases where a single employee committed fraud for years, sometimes over a decade and no one, not even the public accounting firm, detected it. Contrary to what many believe, a public accounting firm is not there to look specifically for fraud. They need to be on the look out for it, but fraud work is a specific field usually best performed by a certified fraud examiner (CFE). The fact that the company was privately held could be a factor as the owner could be doing something and not answerable to a board creates a different environment than a public traded company.
That said, I don't know what Jennifer's duties consisted of at the company. Wikipedia says a 'finance manager'. If any person is going stumble across fraud, it will likely be someone in accounting or in internal audit and not all companies have an internal audit function. If Jennifer was not in accounting, then I'd say it is unlikely she would uncover suspicious transactions. Most embezzlers don't commit murder either.

 

[liz b.]

Couple of things : why did both phones disappear with JK ? If someone came into her condo that night, why not just leave the phones there when ( presumably) they took JK ? Or, was it a case of someone she knew very well stopping by, needing a ride home, and JK had the phones in her purse when she left the condo ? If she was abducted in the morning, she would have likely had both phones with her when she left the condo. If there is any truth to both phones being disabled at around 10 20 pm ish, to me that would mean that JK was out of her condo at that time, and had the phones on her. And someone disabled them knowing that her whereabouts could be tracked if the phones were not disabled, Or, perhaps her phone was taken because she had texts on there that would have been revealing ?

 

[liz b.]

I still go back to the old rule: The last one to see her alive is most likely the suspect. Jenn and her BF took a very romantic trip, yet he states that they had not gotten to the point where they said 'I love you to one another' - yet, they were together for a year! Something about that just doesn't sit well with me; Jennifer seem like the type to be able to make a hard decision and stick with it. When they got back from the trip, did she break up with him? After all, her last call was to him...

Monday, Jan 23, 2006
-6:00AM - Jennifer left her Rob?s and drove directly to work at Westgate Resorts in Ocoee, FL. She worked a full day and left work at about 6PM.
-PM - Jennifer spoke to her parents; she also spoke to her brother Logan. He said everything was normal? she told him about her trip? she seemed happy. She also spoke to Logan's friend about shipping his cell phone back to him.
-9:57PM? Jennifer called her boyfriend Rob. Jennifer was in bed, was tired from the vacation, and had a long day at work. They talked briefly, they both said they missed each other and were looking forward to the next time they were going to spend with each other (clearly, this is what Rob said).

It bothers me that I read here that her bf had said that their last convo was about "where is this relationship going ". It was also stated that they argued. About what I don't know. I don't understand this. The truth doesn't change over time. Not saying that her bf was in any way involved.Just don't understand the changes. jmo