GUILTY FL - Jordan Davis, 17, shot to death, Satellite Beach, 23 Nov 2012 #1

[songline]

Go to Jacksonville Fl., Murder rate 4 times that of NYC, Yes, I carry at least 1 firearm and so does my gf. regardless of the reason for going. That’s what we do and it's not going to change.

Talk about trying to sway public perception.
Portraying these “teenagers” as golden children when in fact clearly they are public nuisance at best.

Been there and never got shot at, not once.
We do not know if they were "GOLDEN" children, and nobody here called them that,
if anyone said this I missed it....But teens are rarely golden....
Maybe they were noisy teens, as teens can be. Does this mean we should just get a gun
and empty it on all the teens, who make a lot of noise? Or act tough?
Who was the adult here?
IF THAT IS THE WAY YOU THINK maybe you need to think again.
IF Jacksonville is so bad why do you keep on going there?
I personally stay out of bad areas, and my BF would not take me into any of those. :blushing:

Why do you see a 45 year old who empties his gun on teens and runs away as a victim? :what:
That does not add up and it won't.

 

[flourish]

I have been trying to use the word "older" instead of "old" in regards to the shooter for that exact reason He was older than his victims, but not "old," IMO.

I wonder at which age one magically transforms from always-lying-disrespectful human to always-trustworthy-especially-when-one-shoots-and-runs human? Maybe 20, since that is the end of the teens? Or maybe it is less defined and it is whatever age at which one buys their first now-I'm-really-above-reproach airplane?

 

[flourish]

In the grand scheme of things I am more annoyed by people who shoot each other dead than music. I've yet to hear such loud music blasting from a radio that I couldn't survive.

YES! what Donjeta said!

 

[songline]

People can be public nuisances and still have a right to live. You do not have to be a golden child to deserve not to get shot. JMO.

ITA,
And the noise was in a PUBLIC place... when did he get to be boss over a public place?
Even if it was not a public place shooting is insane, just because they were
noisy teens.

:twocents:

 

[songline]

Old people don't deserve to be threatened with death either. Old people have just as much right to live as "Teenagers" be they 45 or 28 years old!

45 is not old, and he was not threatened with death. NO WAY NO HOW.
You are embellishing the facts and it does not make it so.
NO shot gun, how did you get so 150% that there was one?
WHERE IS IT? You are 150% then show us the shot gun.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I was talking about the disrespect of the "annoyer" not the reaction of the "annoyee." Sometimes loud music is fine and, in context, is not likely to annoy anyone. Other times it's not. We seem to have lost our natural ability to distinguish between the two -- or at least we don't seem to care as much. I see it as an overall increase in anti-social behavior, maybe do to increased self-centeredness that we certainly do foster in our children far more than ever before. Speaking generally.

I can agree with this. What may not bother me, may bother others. I do think this case has made me more aware and conscious to those around me. Not everyone loves Whitney Houston or Christmas music. I certainly wouldn't want to annoy someone so much that they would shoot and kill me.

I have also talked to my niece about this case. She is an 18-year-old college student and full time worker and she is into all that car show stuff so her car is pretty "souped-up" (I think that is the word the kids use??). She does have extra speakers in her car and all that jazz. She has paid for her car and everything for it 100% by herself by working hard since she was legally allowed to hold a job. While I believe she has the right to enjoy the fruits of her labor with the things she enjoys, I do not wish her to go into her neighborhood blasting her music and she doesn't.

I am not around her 24/7 and I could not tell you if she does play her music loudly in public places though? I will be honest and assume that she does though. I know that certain establishments/businesses actually allow for these young people to sit and play their music loudly which I am grateful for. They have what they call "car meets" and they like to show off what they have done to their cars.

Like I said, I have talked to my niece about this case and her loud music. I told her that she should turn her music down when going to a gas station, etc... but if she doesn't (she's an adult) then if someone rudely asks, demands, cusses that she turn down the music that in NO WAY is she to talk back to them even if they are being nasty. That she is to ignore that person, finish what she is doing, and leave immediately. I know my niece very well, and she can be very lippy when people are lippy to her and I can see her talking back to someone who is not an employee of the property if they are mean to her. I do not want to see my niece shot over her exchanging words with a person who does not know what even they are capable of.

 

[songline]

People keep questioning why Dunn didn't just move to another area of the parking lot, one further away from the teens. What I have not seen is anyone questioning why the teens were there in the first place. Were they customers of the store, did they have a legitimate reason to be there in the first place, or were they just loitering, being general nuicances?

TEENS hang out...some in the mall, some in a car, some at a friend's house.
I do not care if they were just loitering...it is no reason to shoot them.
I do not care if they mouthed off, it is no reason to shoot them.
I dont care if the music was loud, it is no reason to shoot them.

A 45 year old that runs away has a reason to run.
Either his gun was not legal, or his shooting was insane or both.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Some of the gas stations here, that I have requested video from for investigations, have actually taken their outdoor cameras down. They say that because most pumps are prepay with debit/credit or go inside to pay before you can pump gas that there is no reason to monitor the pumps as drive-offs are virtually non-existent now.

What about credit card fraud? That's a big risk for any business to not have camera's. So much can happen in the parking lot of any business. Brings me back to the Carlie Brucia case. Thank God that carwash had camera's!! Can't imagine her abductor/killer being found so swiftly without it.

 

[dsntslp]

What about credit card fraud? That's a big risk for any business to not have camera's. So much can happen in the parking lot of any business. Brings me back to the Carlie Brucia case. Thank God that carwash had camera's!! Can't imagine her abductor/killer being found so swiftly without it.

I would argue the same as you. I had trouble understanding the logic of any company that would spend good money for expensive cameras and then remove them, possibly even paying somebody to do the removal. The only thing I could come up with in my own mind was that the removal of the cameras possibly reduced how many times employees were being called into Court as witnesses. Nobody ever said that, it is just my own thinking on the subject in trying to see a bigger picture in the background rather than just looking at the camera removal itself. IMO, there has to be a bigger picture for them to pay somebody to remove expensive equipment that is already in place. Time lost from work for clerks who become witnesses is one possibility, IMO.

Personally, I love it when there are cameras at the scene of a crime. Cameras don't lie, people do.

Otherwise, why would they not just leave the current system in place and then not replace cameras outside as they wore out and broke down.
Why an effort to physically remove them instead of just letting them wear out?
IDK.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I would argue the same as you. I had trouble understanding the logic of any company that would spend good money for expensive cameras and then remove them, possibly even paying somebody to do the removal. The only thing I could come up with in my own mind was that the removal of the cameras possibly reduced how many times employees were being called into Court as witnesses. Nobody ever said that, it is just my own thinking on the subject in trying to see a bigger picture in the background rather than just looking at the camera removal itself. IMO, there has to be a bigger picture for them to pay somebody to remove expensive equipment that is already in place. Time lost from work for clerks who become witnesses is one possibility, IMO.

Personally, I love it when there are cameras at the scene of a crime. Cameras don't lie, people do.

Otherwise, why would they not just leave the current system in place and then not replace cameras outside as they wore out and broke down.
Why an effort to physically remove them instead of just letting them wear out?
IDK.

Very interesting take on camera's being removed. You appear to be an investigator of some sort, so I trust that your take on the matter is closer to the truth than anything I could come up with. Thank you.

 

[mobeydick]

This is off topic, and maybe it's just because I'm 43, but I don't consider 45 to be "old." When I see posts about an old man being bullied by teenagers I get a mental image of great-grampa wobbling along on his cane.

Mr. Dunn appears to be a vigorous and healthy middle aged man, not some frail creature with a foot in the grave.

My husband is 45, and our sons are 16 & 17. I think of them now as the closest to physical equals they will probably ever be.

Sorry...back to the conversation.

17yo believe 45 is old considering it's nearly three times longer then they were ever thought about. I'm a 49 white male and know that is well past middle aged of 39. I don't think I look like it though.

I don't think if would have mattered how old someone who asked the "teenagers" to turn the music down I think Bobbybadass would have come out of those teens.

Actually the shooter looks old for 45 he looks every bit of 55. I look a lot younger then he does.

Last year about this time of year I was in an altercation with a what looked to be a 22-25yo white male he was about 4" taller then me out weighed me by about 50#s also. I'm 6'2" He had 2 black eyes and busted nose when I was done with him. <mod snip>wanted some also, both of them decided the they messed with the wrong old man, He said he was going to beat my old *advertiser censored*.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Wow! Just Wow!

:what::waitasec:

That is all.

 

[flourish]

17yo believe 45 is old considering it's nearly three times longer then they were ever thought about. I'm a 49 white male and know that is well past middle aged of 39. I don't think I look like it though.

I don't think if would have mattered how old someone who asked the "teenagers" to turn the music down I think Bobbybadass would have come out of those teens.

Actually the shooter looks old for 45 he looks every bit of 55. I look a lot younger then he does.

Last year about this time of year I was in an altercation with a what looked to be a 22-25yo white male he was about 4" taller then me out weighed me by about 50#s also. I'm 6'2" He had 2 black eyes and busted nose when I was done with him. <mod snip>, both of them decided the they messed with the wrong old man, He said he was going to beat my old *advertiser censored*.

This post has so much in it to......um, digest. But the part I emboldened...wow. :eye: :eye:

 

[LolaMoon08]

I also want to add about these "car meets" that my niece attends. They can be held anywhere from a McDonald's parking lot to a Automotive Store to even a Gas Station parking lot. Like I said, these businesses have given them permission to come and hang out which again, I am grateful that they can give them a place to go and enjoy something as harmless as cars and music. There have been plenty of older people who approach these young people wanting to check out their cars, stereo systems, etc... Men, of any age, usually are still interested in cars and music. Most of them were little hot rod's growing up. :rocker:

 

[mobeydick]

Been there and never got shot at, not once.
We do not know if they were "GOLDEN" children, and nobody here called them that,
if anyone said this I missed it....But teens are rarely golden....
Maybe they were noisy teens, as teens can be. Does this mean we should just get a gun
and empty it on all the teens, who make a lot of noise? Or act tough?
Who was the adult here?
IF THAT IS THE WAY YOU THINK maybe you need to think again.
IF Jacksonville is so bad why do you keep on going there?
I personally stay out of bad areas, and my BF would not take me into any of those. :blushing:

Why do you see a 45 year old who empties his gun on teens and runs away as a victim? :what:
That does not add up and it won't.

If I go to Jacksonville I stay on the Eastside as much as possible. I'm in the construction business and there are a few business I have needed to go to down town for supplys or custom made products. I don't do that at night. 25 years ago when I was married the company my wife worked for had a warehouse on Stewart St. and we had to go there about one time a month, we didn't go at night. I've never been shot down there that's because I try to stay out of the bad areas.

I don't see anyone as the victim in the case, yet, Not enough information to make that kind of claim. This site exists so folks like us can speculate on what may have happened on any one event. Almost every poster has tried to blame the shooter for what happened that night. Their only reason, a 17yo black male was killed and a 45 yo white male did it. Like that happens 10 times a day or something. Yet almost every poster either ignores the most likely chain of events or makes up outlandish ideas to come to their conclusions.

This is simple to figure out. Two people who should have never met, met!

 

[Donjeta]

I think that if you choose to shoot someone you're responsible for your actions regardless of usual demographics. I don't see the shooter being a 45 year old white male or the victim being a 17 year old black youth as an exonerating factor.

I don't think they should never ever have met. Why should I? They could have met every day as long as no shots were fired.

I don't really see the relevance of whether this sort of thing happens ten times a day or ten times a year or ten times in a century. Once is too much.

 

[mobeydick]

ITA,
And the noise was in a PUBLIC place... when did he get to be boss over a public place?
Even if it was not a public place shooting is insane, just because they were
noisy teens.

:twocents:

That is the kind of creative thinking I'm talking about.

When did the "teens" becone the boss over a public place? :twocents:

 

[Donjeta]

I haven't seen anything that says the teens were trying to boss over a public place unless being there without Mr. Dunn's approval counts.

 

[mobeydick]

45 is not old, and he was not threatened with death. NO WAY NO HOW.
You are embellishing the facts and it does not make it so.
NO shot gun, how did you get so 150% that there was one?
WHERE IS IT? You are 150% then show us the shot gun.

Again it doens't matter if the teens actually had a shotgun. Making a threat of death then representing a means to carry out that threat or something as a shotgun is the same in the eyes of the law.

 

[Donjeta]

It matters if the teens actually made a threat of death and represented a means to carry it out or not. So far it seems we only have the word of a man who had every reason to lie.