FL - Michelle Mishcon, 53, & John Stevens, 59, murdered, Tequesta, 15 Aug 2016 - #1

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This all confuses me. In my mind "caustic" chemicals would incapacitate him fairly quickly. I read in several accounts that police found him on top of male victim doing stuff I'd rather forget. So if he was on top of victim still, apparently still functioning, how is it he already ingested the chemicals? Did he break free from LE and tossed back antifreeze or whatever while they were trying to apprehend him?

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So far we haven't seen the actual report, but I could see how this could be possible given what JF said:
It's believed Austin Harrouff had possibly consumed the chemicals inside the garage of Michelle Mishcon Stevens, 53, and John Joseph Stevens III, 59, before stabbing the pair to death, a hospital report has claimed.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/3242552...bbing-couple-and-eating-face-of-victim/#page1
If the garage was open but unoccupied at first, he could have gone in and drank, then the wife came out, JF came over, husband came out and finally LE.
 
I found this quote in reference to Antifreeze poisoning as an example of an ingested caustic substance. It takes quite some time to shut down the organs and it's a very unpleasant death. (Ethylene glycol poisoning) ... I'm not saying he actually drank antifreeze, but, ingestion of something poisonous usually isn't an instantaneous demise.

"Best Answer: Antifreeze contains ethylene glycol which is severely nephrotoxic, meaning it damages the kidneys.

Poisoning will cause nausea and vomiting within 12 hours of ingestion. Following this, accunulation of toxic metabolites in the blood can cause muscle spasms and heart arrhythmias within 12-36 hours of ingestion.

Finally, at around 24-72 hours of ingestion, there can be tubular necrosis, meaning the nephrons in your kidneys start to die. This is a very serious condition, and can often be fatal. It can sometimes be reversible with urgent medical care and haemodyalisis etc. Either way, antifreeze ingestion is VERY serious!
Source(s):
I'm a pharmacologist"
Ah. Thank you. I imagined it blistering his throat right away and incapacitating him. But possibly in his state he didn't even feel the discomfort. Perhaps he went into their open garage, ingested the material and was then surprised by the homeowners? In his poor mental state he snapped and... I'm not really trying to make sense of the actions of a psychotic person, I'm just trying to understand some of the logistics. I know it doesn't matter ultimately, I just get stuck on these details.



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This is some stunning new information that he took off his underwear and was cutting himself before the attack. However, this still fits very well with the mental illness angle presented previously. The dentist now claims that the son told him, "I will protect you, dad. They're trying to kill you." I've heard this kind of statement at least a dozen times from paranoid schizophrenics. This fits to a tee. However, dad says that the son was suicidal. I'm skeptical about that and this is probably driven by dad's search for an extenuating circumstance to assuage his guilt for harboring this maniac.

Austin probably is being described as suicidal because he was claiming to be immortal and probably boasted to his parents that he is bulletproof and can survive any trauma. That probably explains his nearly cutting off his thumb. Claims of immortality and being bullet-proof are fairly common among schizophrenics, although self-mutilations to the extent of cutting off limbs aren't as common. Austin probably wasn't suicidal but was about to engage in acts which would immediately cause him harm. Which is exactly what he did. He probably was agitated because his parents by this time had fully realized that he's suffering from major psychosis and wouldn't acknowledge his claims of immortality. As for ingesting anti-freeze or some corrosive beverage, I don't know what to make of it but I can't believe why this information wasn't available earlier when his urine and blood would have been tested. I can't see how he had the time or the opportunity to drink anti-freeze while attacking three people in full frenzy. We still don't have all the information. But this seems to indicate even stronger evidence that his psychosis was very severe. If it's this severe, this must not have been the first time. He probably any mini blow ups well before this one.
 
Ah. Thank you. I imagined it blistering his throat right away and incapacitating him. But possibly in his state he didn't even feel the discomfort. Perhaps he went into their open garage, ingested the material and was then surprised by the homeowners? In his poor mental state he snapped and... I'm not really trying to make sense of the actions of a psychotic person, I'm just trying to understand some of the logistics. I know it doesn't matter ultimately, I just get stuck on these details.

If he survives, I wonder if he thought he was at his father's house and that he was getting the people that were after his father (in his mind). Also I'd like to get a better understanding of how he was when he was daring LE to shoot him, like was he saying it because he was depressed or because he thought he was invincible, which he never tried to attack LE as that would have been a quick suicide by cop if he had. Also if he was trying to commit suicide, I don't know why he'd be bragging to LE that he'd come back clean on a drug test and dare LE to run drug tests on him.
 
This is some stunning new information that he took off his underwear and was cutting himself before the attack. However, this still fits very well with the mental illness angle presented previously. The dentist now claims that the son told him, "I will protect you, dad. They're trying to kill you." I've heard this kind of statement at least a dozen times from paranoid schizophrenics. This fits to a tee. However, dad says that the son was suicidal. I'm skeptical about that and this is probably driven by dad's search for an extenuating circumstance to assuage his guilt for harboring this maniac.

Austin probably is being described as suicidal because he was claiming to be immortal and probably boasted to his parents that he is bulletproof and can survive any trauma. That probably explains his nearly cutting off his thumb. Claims of immortality and being bullet-proof are fairly common among schizophrenics, although self-mutilations to the extent of cutting off limbs aren't as common. Austin probably wasn't suicidal but was about to engage in acts which would immediately cause him harm. Which is exactly what he did. He probably was agitated because his parents by this time had fully realized that he's suffering from major psychosis and wouldn't acknowledge his claims of immortality. As for ingesting anti-freeze or some corrosive beverage, I don't know what to make of it but I can't believe why this information wasn't available earlier when his urine and blood would have been tested. I can't see how he had the time or the opportunity to drink anti-freeze while attacking three people in full frenzy. We still don't have all the information. But this seems to indicate even stronger evidence that his psychosis was very severe. If it's this severe, this must not have been the first time. He probably any mini blow ups well before this one.

That's along the lines of how I see it. He could have started cutting off his finger to show his parents he was immortal and then going to what he thought was his dad's garage to ingest anti-freeze as further proof of his immortality, then he runs into the family whose house he was actually in and thinks they're the ones trying to kill his dad, so he kills them after having drank poison further proving to himself that he's immortal. Then he dared LE to shoot him - without ever violently resisting them - as yet more proof of his immortality, but then otherwise cooperated with LE after that and bragged about how everything he did was without drugs and dared LE to check test him to yet again show that he had superpowers. In his mind he could have thought he was like The Wolverine and everything he did that day was either proof of his immortality and superpowers or vigilante superhero justice protecting his family, like what the X-Men do.
 
LE was very upset and at a loss to explain what they saw, but I doubt they're lying. Some things you just can not deny away or change after the fact. It must be extremely embarrassing and a hard time for his family. JMO, it might be best to not make any more statements to the media.

http://cbs12.com/news/local/father-...ns-organs-are-failing-from-chemical-poisoning

Deputy: I got this guy wrapped around.. (inaudible)

Dispatch: Can fire rescue go in ?"

Deputy: No sir. I got this guy wrapped around and he's BITING him.”


Dr. Harrouff also told CBS12, he does not believe the reports his son “ate anyone’s face. It’s only said by that Sheriff to make this a worldwide story, and it is a complete exaggeration.”

http://cbs12.com/news/local/father-...ns-organs-are-failing-from-chemical-poisoning
 
...I sit in my garage sometimes, my dad did also when I was little (maybe that's where I got it)... I couldn't imagine just sitting there and some crazy person waltzing up, taking a swig of motor oil, acting (probably) insane, and then beating me to a pulp. I imagine it all happened rather quickly and it is a quite shocking scenerio.

I imagine the pair of them were sitting with their backs to the garage door as it was open on a hot night, and either listening to music or watching tv; and then, maybe silently, a frenzied maniac creeps upon them... Just like that. It's kinda scary how random, heinous, and senseless these murders were. :( Very sad.
 
Here's something that sounds like a bit of news. Apparently LE doesn't have the shorts the media took a picture of, presumably belonging to AH:
Snyder is also trying to figure out if a pair of shorts found near the scene by a news crew may have been Harrouff’s.

“I’ve looked at the picture the camera crew gave us of those shorts, they do look very much like the ones you see in the video. Unfortunately, the camera crew for whatever reasons – maybe deadline – took a picture and called us. We went right out and the shorts were already gone.”
http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/florida/desperate-police-call-details-face-biting-attack/306026266
 
That's pretty much what I believe. He took the poor couple having a pleasant evening in their garage as those trying to kill his dad. Self-mutilation is an act of validation to prove to himself that he's immortal. At this point, he was probably a walking homicidal time bomb, ready to pounce on anyone whom he thought was trying to hurt his dad. His parents were justifiably alarmed and his mom, especially. But if they had taken him to see a trained psychiatrist who has seen this type of deranged thinking all too often, he would have at least been presented with anti-psychotic medications that are usually very effective at curbing this type of behavior. That's what we're talking about, not that he would have been committed. He would have been confronted with mental health professionals who would have tried to convince him that he's in full-blown psychosis, that he needs Risperidone to help him retrieve the mind that he has "lost," as he previously admitted.

... then he runs into the family whose house he was actually in and thinks they're the ones trying to kill his dad, so he kills them after having drank poison further proving to himself that he's immortal. Then he dared LE to shoot him -
 
I know, this is about Michelle Mishcon and John Stevens III an innocent, loving couple who as seen in photos enjoyed each other and their lives so much.

Keep thinking if only someone got in their car right away to search for him, or if police were called sooner, maybe they might have found AH while he was walking along cutting his thumb and shucking off shorts. What's weird is how calm he looks leaving the restaurant.
 
Sorry in advance for the long post, just got caught up and trying to put my thoughts in one place...okay this might be more of a ramble than thoughts so apologies in advance!

Some of AH's videos remind me of a friend I have had since elementary school. When he turned 19 he started showing serious symptoms of mental illness. According to my friends mom, who was on top of this as much as the parent of an adult can be, it took awhile to get the correct diagnosis of schizo affective but it was complicated by the fact that he was taking a prescribed amphetamine from another doctor (he was dr shopping) which just agitated him even more, and then when he would come down from it, he would have terrible depression and suicidal ideations. I'm not sure if this would be similar to the effects of steroids or not. Because Of this, it took awhile for my friend to get the right diagnosis bc they weren't sure if it was the amphetamines aggravating things or causing symptoms that normally he didn't have. I obviously don't know all the details but remember that was an issue in getting the right diagnosis and treatment plan. In terms of questions about AH's mom doing nothing when he allegedly said he had Super Powers for a week, I don't think we know for sure how much his parents did or didn't try to help, but the fact that his father didn't follow his son who the father admitted off camera was making suicidal threats that day, out of the restaurant is really bizarre to me.

I have no clue if AH suffered from anything like what I described above with my friend, and do acknowledge that it could have been long term effects from either steroids or other drugs. This might take some time for professionals to figure out. I know his initial tox screen didn't show anything based on what the public was told. Sadly, aside from steroids, and flakka which I believe they said likely would have resulted in an increased core body temp, which AH reportedly didn't have, there are so many designer drugs out there now that can have terrible effects on anyone, and combined with a mental Illness would likely be worse. I am pretty sure some of them require more extensive toxicology tests. Reading about some of them, and people's experiences on them, often referred to as "research Chemicals" is scary.

In regards to the caustic substance in the garage that police say AH consumed at some point during the attack, is it possible that the couple saw him walk by, he was clearly bleeding and out of sorts at this point in time based on the evidence found by the reporter and maybe the victims asked if he needed help, maybe he entered the garage, drank the substance and then went into complete rage when the victims could have possibly tried to stop him from doing that and said they were calling police? I would think there's evidence that whatever he drank was from there and I don't see how he did it after the attacks bc he was still attacking when the police got there.

In terms of the parents statements to police that can be seen as contradictory, with his mom and friends saying they didn't believe he was a threat to himself or others, and his father saying off camera that he had been making suicidal threats that day, I think it will be important to know when authorities found out from the father about the suicidal threats and if he didn't tell AH's mom, why not? Maybe he felt responsible bc he could have stopped him or at least followed him, maybe he did tell mom but she was embarrassed to say so for whatever reason, or it's possible AH didn't make any suicidal threats and dad is saying he did to help with an insanity defense. I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist but it's possible. I also wonder if there's a specific reason AH's family and doctors told the media they believe he drank the caustic substance after the attack. Yes, maybe it was a typo but maybe not. i am assuming they will go with an insanity defense which is an affirmative defense so maybe there's some psychological reason that drinking whatever it was after the attacks would be helpful, but the timeline w the police getting there would mean that after drinking it, he went back to continue the attack on mr. Stevens until police were able to intervene. Again, maybe this was just a typo but who knows.

I really do believe AH likely suffered from a mental illness but I have no idea what or the severity. I would not be suprised if he was self medicating with something or things that are still being tested for. Many of which can contribute to the behavior AH has been exhibiting on YouTube and the day he murdered two innocent people, and injured another.
 
This is just bizarre no matter how you spin it. :crazy:
 
No, JF was still alive and since then has been released from the hospital. AH fought 3 people in and around the garage and it would be rather difficult drinking something when you're fighting someone. What's not clear to me is when the husband was on-scene, but JF said he ran over there when he heard screams and saw the wife being beaten and they got into a fight until he realized was bleeding and ran away and called 911, then JF's father went over there and saw AH on top of the husband with the husband still alive. It's not exactly clear what the situation was but if the garage was empty at first and then the wife came him, he could have drank before the wife went in the garage or he could have drank after JF ran away and before the husband showed up (if the husband wasn't there to begin with). It's not impossible, just I don't see someone opening up and drinking antifreeze or whatever else when they're in the middle of a mortal fight.

I am talking about a man whose face and abdomen he was biting, and his wife. The third person (neighbor) run away and called 911, so he wasn't on the scene at that point. Both were dead when police arrived. The neighbor wasn't engaging him in any mortal fights at that point. So AH could have killed the two victims, drunk or ingested whatever substance, and resumed attacking the body.
 
LE was very upset and at a loss to explain what they saw, but I doubt they're lying. Some things you just can not deny away or change after the fact. It must be extremely embarrassing and a hard time for his family. JMO, it might be best to not make any more statements to the media.

http://cbs12.com/news/local/father-...ns-organs-are-failing-from-chemical-poisoning

I don't think LE is lying. AH was described as having human flesh in his mouth.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/florida/fl-martin-county-face-bite-case-update-20160823-story.html
 
chewing on the face and stomach of one of the dead victims.

The couple are divorced, with Mina living in Jupiter and Wade

maybe mom was not around him recently??


http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/ne...tequest/nsGgj/

I agree with you guys - never knew parents were divorced - that does change/explain some of the families inability to ascertain the hole he was sinking into. A kid, in college, away from home, comes for a visit, its a time of change for most. I think a lot of folks are , understandably, looking at it backwards - casue we know what he did.

But thus far, confusingly nothing from the frat guys is coming out about him being odd or whatever. We also should remember Schizo Affective can have a very quick onset........

The couple are divorced, with Mina living in Jupiter and Wade
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article97334827.html#storylink=cpy
 
Sorry in advance for the long post, just got caught up and trying to put my thoughts in one place...okay this might be more of a ramble than thoughts so apologies in advance!

Some of AH's videos remind me of a friend I have had since elementary school. When he turned 19 he started showing serious symptoms of mental illness. According to my friends mom, who was on top of this as much as the parent of an adult can be, it took awhile to get the correct diagnosis of schizo affective but it was complicated by the fact that he was taking a prescribed amphetamine from another doctor (he was dr shopping) which just agitated him even more, and then when he would come down from it, he would have terrible depression and suicidal ideations. I'm not sure if this would be similar to the effects of steroids or not. Because Of this, it took awhile for my friend to get the right diagnosis bc they weren't sure if it was the amphetamines aggravating things or causing symptoms that normally he didn't have. I obviously don't know all the details but remember that was an issue in getting the right diagnosis and treatment plan. In terms of questions about AH's mom doing nothing when he allegedly said he had Super Powers for a week, I don't think we know for sure how much his parents did or didn't try to help, but the fact that his father didn't follow his son who the father admitted off camera was making suicidal threats that day, out of the restaurant is really bizarre to me.

I have no clue if AH suffered from anything like what I described above with my friend, and do acknowledge that it could have been long term effects from either steroids or other drugs. This might take some time for professionals to figure out. I know his initial tox screen didn't show anything based on what the public was told. Sadly, aside from steroids, and flakka which I believe they said likely would have resulted in an increased core body temp, which AH reportedly didn't have, there are so many designer drugs out there now that can have terrible effects on anyone, and combined with a mental Illness would likely be worse. I am pretty sure some of them require more extensive toxicology tests. Reading about some of them, and people's experiences on them, often referred to as "research Chemicals" is scary.

In regards to the caustic substance in the garage that police say AH consumed at some point during the attack, is it possible that the couple saw him walk by, he was clearly bleeding and out of sorts at this point in time based on the evidence found by the reporter and maybe the victims asked if he needed help, maybe he entered the garage, drank the substance and then went into complete rage when the victims could have possibly tried to stop him from doing that and said they were calling police? I would think there's evidence that whatever he drank was from there and I don't see how he did it after the attacks bc he was still attacking when the police got there.

In terms of the parents statements to police that can be seen as contradictory, with his mom and friends saying they didn't believe he was a threat to himself or others, and his father saying off camera that he had been making suicidal threats that day, I think it will be important to know when authorities found out from the father about the suicidal threats and if he didn't tell AH's mom, why not? Maybe he felt responsible bc he could have stopped him or at least followed him, maybe he did tell mom but she was embarrassed to say so for whatever reason, or it's possible AH didn't make any suicidal threats and dad is saying he did to help with an insanity defense. I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist but it's possible. I also wonder if there's a specific reason AH's family and doctors told the media they believe he drank the caustic substance after the attack. Yes, maybe it was a typo but maybe not. i am assuming they will go with an insanity defense which is an affirmative defense so maybe there's some psychological reason that drinking whatever it was after the attacks would be helpful, but the timeline w the police getting there would mean that after drinking it, he went back to continue the attack on mr. Stevens until police were able to intervene. Again, maybe this was just a typo but who knows.

I really do believe AH likely suffered from a mental illness but I have no idea what or the severity. I would not be suprised if he was self medicating with something or things that are still being tested for. Many of which can contribute to the behavior AH has been exhibiting on YouTube and the day he murdered two innocent people, and injured another.

Wonderful post - like your writing style TY!
 
Dr. Harrouff says his son is in restraints in the hospital bed and only wakes momentarily and goes into convulsions.

What do you guys hear at 20 or so seconds in dog ?

http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/florida/desperate-police-call-details-face-biting-attack/306026266

They are saying he was living with his mother

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/n...r-ids-two-people-found-dead-at-tequest/nsGgj/

...I sit in my garage sometimes, my dad did also when I was little (maybe that's where I got it)... I couldn't imagine just sitting there and some crazy person waltzing up, taking a swig of motor oil, acting (probably) insane, and then beating me to a pulp. I imagine it all happened rather quickly and it is a quite shocking scenerio.

I imagine the pair of them were sitting with their backs to the garage door as it was open on a hot night, and either listening to music or watching tv; and then, maybe silently, a frenzied maniac creeps upon them... Just like that. It's kinda scary how random, heinous, and senseless these murders were.
frown.gif
Very sad.


I saw a pic of the garage gave me chills cause the chairs were facing in. So it could have been like sudden appearance -- hear what sounds like a bear and turn around and there is a wide eyed ,bloody, sweating , grunting, bleeding human being, in underwear, coming at you -- had to be horrid imo

just would take some time to absorb what the heck?

Strange that a guy in underwear walked a mile without notice...
 
This is just bizarre no matter how you spin it. :crazy:

That's for sure. One day this guy is acting maybe a little strange. Next day he is biting dead victim's face and abdomen as police is trying to pull him off. Even if he got a mental disease like schizophrenia one would think it was going to take some time to get to this point. As far as I can tell he wasn't even diagnosed with anything mental. He was obviously able to function pretty much normally, finishing school, attending college.
 
I am talking about a man whose face and abdomen he was biting, and his wife. The third person (neighbor) run away and called 911, so he wasn't on the scene at that point. Both were dead when police arrived. The neighbor wasn't engaging him in any mortal fights at that point. So AH could have killed the two victims, drunk or ingested whatever substance, and resumed attacking the body.

I think this is a possibility, based on the report that the family thinks he drank the substance after the attacks but I know there's confusion over whether that's a typo or not. I don't know whether it's significant or not but it's definitely possible
 
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