FL - Multiple Fatalities at Mass Shooting at Madden Gaming Tournament, Jacksonville, 26 Aug 2018

[MelmothTheLost]

A burden? A “cause of hardship and distress”? Sounds like some of his problems weren’t fully within his control to begin with.

It doesn't matter whether his problems were within his control or not. If he was incapable of living independently he would have had to live somewhere or with someone indefinitely.

Parents expect their children to grow up, move out, get married, have a family of their own. They reasonably foresee that by a certain age their lives are their own again. But with some children that never happens. The parents are still dealing with them, and often complex issues, on a day to day basis in their own old age. They never get their own lives back.

That's a tragedy all round.

 

[JaxFlaGal]

Or maybe given his longstanding mental health problems he was never going to be able to live independently. It's possible he was going to be a lifelong burden on one or both of his parents.

The lack of mention of siblings struck me too.

just listened to the follow-up from the JSO presser on WTLV channel 12 and the newscaster noted that the shooter has an older brother. The Jax local MSM is working with reporters in Baltimore to get more background info. All the other info she gave I'd already seen in MSM links posted here. The brother was new info.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Bbm

A burden? A “cause of hardship and distress”? Sounds like some of his problems weren’t fully within his control to begin with.

A son or a daughter should never be a burden on parents, even as adults. When a person decides to be a parent it's a lifelong responsibility. JMO

 

[MelmothTheLost]

A son or a daughter should never be a burden on parents, even as adults. When a person decides to be a parent it's a lifelong responsibility. JMO

They shouldn't, no, but the reality can be very different.

 

[JaxFlaGal]

Notes from the live presser (

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=240355543329192

)
·
• Delay was due to Sheriff talking to the family of one of the victims
• FBI and ATF also w/Sheriff and mayor
• 1:34 began receiving 911 calls later
• 2 min later police arrived
• Lockdown performed
• JSO bomb and SWAT teams swept
• 13 victims, 12 shot. 2 dead, 10 treated for GSW, one treated for non-gunshots. All 11 expected to recover from their injuries
• Suspect shot himself, not in the count of 13 victims
• Video footage shows single shooter incident, suspect
• Carried 2 handguns and extra ammo. Believe only fired 1 handgun
• Clearly targeted other gamers
• Walked past other patrons and focused on the other gamers
• Located and searched his vehicle and his Jax hotel room
• Expect to complete crime scene processing by COB Tuesday
• Still working to collect video etc
• Parents fully cooperative with FBI, provided access to all the records FBI has asked for
• FBI ongoing, all further updates will be through JSO
• This is last scheduled briefing;
• name of Hotel? He did not say which hotel, however
• He Purchased the firearms in MD (Baltimore). Legally purchased from licensed dealer
• Won’t comment on when he had the guns but had them both with him and extra ammo
• Did buy the guns recently? Yes recent but time not at the ready, perhaps bought in last 2 weeks
• 1 45 caliber and 1 9mm
• One of the guns did have aftermarket laser sight
• Motive? Yet to have a concrete motive, still working that
• Any warning signs? No comment at this point.
• How many in the building? Approx. 130-150 people
• There are prior relationships with this group as a “circuit” of people, he didn’t have insight on specific individuals
• No indication that he had planned this prior to Sunday

After the presser the JSO public information officer also brought up a large contingent from Elijah Clayton's family to speak. I didn't catch as many note there, but it's well worth a listen. The cousin representing the family made it clear how loved he was and I was very impressed with all of the thanks the family gave to everyone here in Jax, to the hoteliers and airline that helped them get here quickly, etc. You can tell the family is tight knit and she represented them very well. This was live on local news WTLV channel 12 and I don't see that posted yet; if I find a link to it later I'll post it. other notes from the Clayton family:
·
• Family of Elijiah spoke, represented by cousin Brandi Pettijohn spoke
• mother, father, stepmother, aunt, cousins were in the news video, seemed very unified
• Eli had 6 brothers, 3 sisters, grandmother, aunts, uncles, cousins
• Was making a good living gaming and was saving his gaming earnings to go to college
• Cousin: “There is a hole that will never be filled.” Asked for privacy, thanked JSO, the community, tournament players, staff at 2 local hotels, the airline they flew last night to get to Jax, and others.
• The family asked for privacy but also provided an email address for communications. Out of respect for the family’s request for privacy I am NOT posting that here.

 

[enelram]

Katz had been previously treated for psychiatric problems
=struggled while in college (commuted from home?)
- was not currently enrolled
- neighbors say family kept to themselves
-neighbor had seen police cars at family home
parents were divorced which caused problems with David
lots of good personal info here:
Jacksonville shooting suspect underwent psychiatric treatment, purchased guns legally in Baltimore area

 

[enelram]

Sorry for posting the above article for 3rd time- didn't read earlier
posts.

Seems as though this young man had some serious mental
issues previously and I question if he was competent to be
traveling around on his own safely. Obviously he was not.
Guessing he was all alone in this world and felt no one would
care if he shot himself also. Very sad all around.

 

[SuzDuJour]

Once again, a young guy with emotional problems and legal access to guns. It’s WRONG.

 

[nd1313]

Once again, a young guy with emotional problems and legal access to guns. It’s WRONG.

I get deja vu every time something like this happens

 

[bluesneakers]

These gamers need to get a life and build an honest living for themselves the old-fashioned way - working from the shoulders down.

A lot of people make money using their heads! Doctors, engineers, teachers, scientists. Just to name a few. Nothing wrong with making a living using your brain and doing what you love.

How video games turn teenagers into millionaires

10 People Making Total Bank From Gaming

Can Playing Video Games Be Your Full-Time Job?

 

[MaryG12]

I keep thinking "Where were the parents in all this?"

Leaving aside the fact that the gunman was 24 years old, he clearly had significant health issues that were serious enough to be cited in his parents' divorce papers and it seems likely those issues related to his mental rather than physical health.

We know he lived with his father but both parents seem to have high-flying careers. I'm left wondering whether this was a case where both parents were focused on their careers and maybe not as aware of his problems as they might have been while he was growing up and maybe not keeping an eye on him as much as they could or should have done as an adult. He clearly lived in his father's house but maybe he wasn't really in his father's life. I've seen a report that his father was travelling on business when all of this went down so maybe dad was away quite often and unaware of what his son was getting up to or what his mental state was at any given time.

Dunno. I could be completely wrong and both parents were actively involved in their son's life.

Have either of his parents or other relatives released a statement?

The fact that both his father and mother were government employees, making good money, progressing in their careers, no doubt able to provide all material comforts to their son, were maybe away from home a lot - who did he bond with, have someone to guide him when he was a child growing up?

 

[MaryG12]

From the article:

Fillings from Katz’s parents’ divorce, first filed in 2005, widely discussed his emotional and socially struggles, as well as his troubles in school. The documents note a hospitalization at Sheppard Pratt Health System in Towson for psychiatric treatment.

Katz was a 2011 graduate of Hammond High School in Howard County.

He also attended the University of Maryland previously, but was not a enrolled this semester, university President Wallace Loh said. He enrolled beginning in September 2014, and majored in environmental science and technology, a university spokeswoman said. He did not live on campus.

Natalie Gill, a former teaching assistant and graduate student at the University of Maryland, said Katz struggled and kept to himself when he was in her class in the fall 2015. She said the picture of him going around online “with no smiling” reminded her of “how he looked all the time.”

BBM


That's actually a good field to go into right now, average salary is 50 grand a year, according to Payscale.

Environmental Scientist Salary

And better than winning prizes, prizes being sole source of income.

It's a shame he dropped out and did not finish his degree. He might be alive and happy right now, earning a degree is a sense of personal achievement, work hard to earn it.

 

[MaryG12]

These gamers need to get a life and build an honest living for themselves the old-fashioned way - working from the shoulders down.

Why Is Physical Activity So Good for Your Brain?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with manual labor, I've held jobs that require it (housecleaning/office cleaning services) at one point in my life. Yes that includes cleaning bathrooms. So long as it is honest work - and I understand where you are coming from.

Since these sports gamers are paid in the form of prizes, that cannot be compared to an hourly wage or salary.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I don't want America to be like Europe. Recent studies have proven that Scandinavians are NOT as happy as is rumored. It is an honor and privilege to be born in US. America is exceptional.

Yay American exceptionalism.

Except we’re not exceptional. Unique in some ways, maybe, but human just like everyone else. IMO

We can’t pretend that any of this is normal or OK or even “one-offs” anymore. Because those are lies, imo.

Real problems need real answers, not platitudes or prayers or partisan politics.

None of those 12 victims deserved what happened to them. To a certain extent, not even the shooter. He killed himself, but we can do more to prevent this gruesome, shocking violence from happening in the first place.

We are an exceptionally violent country.

These truths exists with our feelings of pride, honor and privilege of being Americans. The chest-bumping cognitive dissonance between them might just be an American trait, too. But it’s nothing to be proud of.

Only we can change it.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Regarding the comment that the family kept to themselves (and that has been noted by one neighbor), David's parents may have been going through marital problems at the time and didn't feel quite social. Looks like the parents both had high level jobs, worked full time and had health issues with their children as noted in court filings. If police cars were seen around that time, the parent(s) may have been trying to manage some sort of an explosive temperament issue with David (maybe) that they didn't feel like sharing. And maybe the neighbors were too intrusive and David's parents just didn't care for them. There could have been many reasons but it looked like David certainly had prior mental issues. I don't think it was just the tournament. I think he would have erupted eventually regardless of where he was, even at college or a place of employment. He could not handle frustration or it was a symptom of his mental illness. Maybe hallucinations, I just don't know. But I sure wish he'd been unable to buy guns. I hope there's an investigation done to see how his background check cleared.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

But it does matter. As you said yourself, it’s tragic all around.

bbm

It doesn't matter whether his problems were within his control or not.

 

[Jim G]

American Exceptionalism: longest standing democracy in history. Only country to fight a war to end slavery. 300,000 soldiers gave their lives to free the slaves. Without the US, we'd be speaking German and Jewish genocide may be complete. Without the US, all of Europe would be speaking Russian and praising the Politburo. And bottom line - why on Earth does everyone want to come here to live???
Yes, America is exceptional. Even Hunter Thompson said so.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

"They had tried psychiatric care in Towson and Rockville, enrolled him in public and private schools, and even sent him to Utah for a therapeutic wilderness school for teens.

Court records show his behavior was still worrisome.

“David would go days without bathing, would play video games until 4 a.m. on school nights, would walk around the house in circles,” Howard County Circuit Judge Lenore Gelfman wrote in 2010. “[He] was failing all classes at Hammond High, was unresponsive to school teachers and uncooperative with school psychotherapists/counselors, and was extremely hostile toward his mother.”

Katz once punched a hole through his mother’s bedroom door to retrieve the video game controllers she had taken from him, his mother, Elizabeth Katz, told the court."
He was taking the drug Risperdol used for treating schizophrenia or bipolar, David's dad shared with the court.

In Howard County, parents of Jacksonville shooting suspect had been desperate to find psychiatric care for son

 

[MaryG12]

Yay American exceptionalism.

Except we’re not exceptional. Unique in some ways, maybe, but human just like everyone else. IMO

We can’t pretend that any of this is normal or OK or even “one-offs” anymore. Because those are lies, imo.

Real problems need real answers, not platitudes or prayers or partisan politics.

None of those 12 victims deserved what happened to them. To a certain extent, not even the shooter. He killed himself, but we can do more to prevent this gruesome, shocking violence from happening in the first place.

We are an exceptionally violent country.

These truth exists with our feelings of pride, honor and privilege of being Americans. The chest-bumping cognitive dissonance between them might just be an American trait, too. But it’s nothing to be proud of.

Only we can change it.

Exceptional in that we have more freedoms than other nations, and more social mobility than most (August Hollingshead's "Elmtown's Youth").

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Are we allowed to speculate about his home life and upbringing at this point? I’ll flag my question for a mod/admin, too.

(paging @sillybilly, @Tricia, @Harmony 2, to the white courtesy phone. Lol! thank you.)

Or is it the red courtesy phone? I forget. ... Paging Captain Clarence Oveur!