For a relative newbie to this case

[ssiegmund]

Hgbchick, the one thing that tells me something was fishy was, well it's three things actually, all dealing with the Rs behavior on the first morning. On that morning, waiting for the kidnapper to call, the time came and went and neither John nor Patsy said anything about it, no "Why don't they call?" or anything like that, and then when Det. Arndt asked John to search the house (which she shouldn't have done but that's another story) he headed right straight for the basement room where JB's body lay. Do you not think that's kind of strange? And then John planning to fly to Atlanta 45 minutes later. My child has never been kidnapped but I think I have a pretty good idea what I would and would not do, and flying off to Atlanta would be on the not do list. I'm not saying PDI, but I think she knew who did it.

 

[BBB167893]

But they really don't do they? I don't see anyone else wondering why there were none of these fibers, that apparently easily shed off Patsy's clothing during the comission of the crime, found in JB's panties, or why there weren't any grey ones, or where the blue ones came from....why weren't any of those fibers found in JB's hair? They're in the ligature, but not in her hair?

Nope, for my money it wasn't Patsy that killed JB or there would have been even more of those same fibers found on her body, and on the blanket as well.

I don't remember, were any of those fibers found on the sticky side of the duct tape?

Well, yes, they do. Nobody said they shed easily. Why would there be grey ones from a red sweater? And I think someone said that the fibers were actually black, and where they did come from...

Yes, her fibers were found on the duct tape. That was one of the first places they found them.

 

[truecrime]

:doh: I believe last night the showing on court TV mentioned that there was a rope fiber found on JB's bed. I thought that was kind of odd. Could have been transfered when someone was looking for underpants (size 12) to put on JB. Did I read somewhere that the underpants were a size 12? I thought I did. They would fit an adult woman.

 

[truecrime]

Well, yes, they do. Nobody said they shed easily. Why would there be grey ones from a red sweater? And I think someone said that the fibers were actually black, and where they did come from...

Yes, her fibers were found on the duct tape. That was one of the first places they found them.

SuperDave,
It usually takes several different colors to produce one certain color. Several different fibers of color in one color sweater doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[narlacat]

:doh: I believe last night the showing on court TV mentioned that there was a rope fiber found on JB's bed. I thought that was kind of odd. Could have been transfered when someone was looking for underpants (size 12) to put on JB. Did I read somewhere that the underpants were a size 12? I thought I did. They would fit an adult woman.

Adult sizes and kids sizes are different
Yes the pants on JBR were size 10-12 I believe.
I don't think they would have fallen off as just been a bit baggy.

 

[truecrime]

Thank You Narlacat

 

[narlacat]

No worries Truecrime.

They came from a package of underwear that were apparently bought as a gift for Patsys niece.

 

[BBB167893]

"It usually takes several different colors to produce one certain color. Several different fibers of color in one color sweater doesn't surprise me at all."

Right. That's why I think they were able to tell one red fiber from another.

Incidentally, Mike Kane was always dubious of the "cord fibers in bed" story.

 

[icedtea4me]

I followed this case when it when it occured and for a year or two after, but I haven't for some years and am frankly rather surprised at the venom that is being spewed towards Patsy Ramsey after her death from cancer. I had honestly thought they had determined that the Ramsey's had nothing to do with JonBenet's death? Has it really been TWENTY years?!?

I really don't have time to read the millions of threads on this. But please, someone convince me. Please someone give me some evidence that Patsy and/or John did this. I just don't see it.

I'm asking this respectfully, also, as someone who has not followed the case. Please don't tear me a new one for not knowing, just give me a post or two that will prove their guilt.

Thanks.

John Ramsey's story as to how he broke the basement window during the summer of '96 is so convoluted. He claimed it actually happened but, when it came time for him to relate the incident in his June 1998 interrogation, he was unable to do so as a past event in which he participated.

Now does this prove that he participated in what happened to JonBenet that night? No, but it does make this so-called ready-made intruder means of entry highly suspicious, imo.


-Tea

 

[aussiesheila]

I followed this case when it when it occured and for a year or two after, but I haven't for some years and am frankly rather surprised at the venom that is being spewed towards Patsy Ramsey after her death from cancer. I had honestly thought they had determined that the Ramsey's had nothing to do with JonBenet's death? Has it really been TWENTY years?!?

I really don't have time to read the millions of threads on this. But please, someone convince me. Please someone give me some evidence that Patsy and/or John did this. I just don't see it.

I'm asking this respectfully, also, as someone who has not followed the case. Please don't tear me a new one for not knowing, just give me a post or two that will prove their guilt.

Thanks.

Hi Hbgchick,

As you have seen from all the previous replies the so-called evidence against Patsy is pretty weak.

I think the only real evidence against Patsy is the opinions of some of the handwriting experts, most particularly Gideon Epstein, that she wrote the ransom note. I think this evidence is strongly weighted towards her definitely having written it and if true, it means that she was involved in the coverup.

It does not mean that she and/or John and/or Burke killed JonBenet but it does mean she knows who the killers are, IMO.

 

[BBB167893]

Nice to see you back, aussiesheila.

"As you have seen from all the previous replies the so-called evidence against Patsy is pretty weak."

Well, I'll tell you what: by itself, each piece of evidence is arguable. But I am confident that someone going into a civil case (who knows what the heck they're doing!), where the standatd of proof is much lower than in criminal court, you have a fair chance. Heck, I, like Tricia, WELCOME the opportunity!

"I think the only real evidence against Patsy is the opinions of some of the handwriting experts, most particularly Gideon Epstein, that she wrote the ransom note. I think this evidence is strongly weighted towards her definitely having written it and if true, it means that she was involved in the coverup. It does not mean that she and/or John and/or Burke killed JonBenet but it does mean she knows who the killers are"

I have no problem with that.

 

[trixie]

"It usually takes several different colors to produce one certain color. Several different fibers of color in one color sweater doesn't surprise me at all."

Right. That's why I think they were able to tell one red fiber from another.

Incidentally, Mike Kane was always dubious of the "cord fibers in bed" story.

Hi SuperDave,

I think there has always been confusion about Patsys sweater versus Patsys jacket.(And actually it was a type of "sweater jacket".) Anyway, her sweater was only red, whereas her jacket was black, gray, and red. I think that's where some of the confusion about the different colored fibers come from. You say Mike Kane was always dubious of the "cord fibers in bed" theory. That's really good news. Can you direct me to the source of this statement about Mike Kane? I'm not asking you to "State your Sources". I HATE it when the someone does that. I just really want to read that for myself and see what else he had to say. I think I read an article written when Patsy died about the cord fibers in the bed are what made up Mary Keenans mind about the Ramseys innocence. Did you read that one?

 

[BBB167893]

Hi SuperDave,

I think there has always been confusion about Patsys sweater versus Patsys jacket.(And actually it was a type of "sweater jacket".) Anyway, her sweater was only red, whereas her jacket was black, gray, and red. I think that's where some of the confusion about the different colored fibers come from. You say Mike Kane was always dubious of the "cord fibers in bed" theory. That's really good news. Can you direct me to the source of this statement about Mike Kane? I'm not asking you to "State your Sources". I HATE it when the someone does that. I just really want to read that for myself and see what else he had to say. I think I read an article written when Patsy died about the cord fibers in the bed are what made up Mary Keenans mind about the Ramseys innocence. Did you read that one?

Yes, it's not uncommon for men to misstate about women's clothing.

Why would it be good news, trixie?

I think I goofed! I was reading through it kind of fast! It wasn't Kane who commented on them on that show. It was an exchange between Larry Pozner and Wendy Murphy. Pozner was talking about a rope in another bedroom and fibers from a sack found in her bed, and Murphy responded by reminding him that Patsy's fibers were tied into the cord knots. Kane THEN jumped in by saying that the fibers from the sack were news to him. THAT'S what he was talking about. Sorry.

Still, a fiber from the cord really doesn't prove one thing or the other. It could be an intruder, granted. It could be the staging started in JB's bedroom. Who knows?

No, I didn't read that one, far as I remember. Educate me. But it's no secret that Keenan had been pro-Ramsey from before Hunter retired. IMO, Mary Keenan-Lacy is a radical feminist and that clouds her judgment about whether or not a mother could do this. But, that's just me.

I do remember what Kane said about Keenan thinking it was an intruder, from the same program:

"if Mary Keenan has reached this conclusion, she clearly has not reviewed her own file"

 

[trixie]

Hi SuperDave,
the article I was referring to was just one of the many that came out after Patsy died, that same week. I couldn't even tell you where to look for it, it's not that important.
The reason why Kane disputing the cord fiber in the bed would be good news to me is because for some reason that is something I have never heard anyone dipute. On a personal note I can't incorporate it into any theories that I have or have read about so it just gives me a headache.lol! If Kane disputed it then that would tell me that maybe it's not true after all. Who did that particular item of evidence come from anyway? Smit?

 

[BBB167893]

Hi SuperDave,
the article I was referring to was just one of the many that came out after Patsy died, that same week. I couldn't even tell you where to look for it, it's not that important.
The reason why Kane disputing the cord fiber in the bed would be good news to me is because for some reason that is something I have never heard anyone dipute. On a personal note I can't incorporate it into any theories that I have or have read about so it just gives me a headache.lol! If Kane disputed it then that would tell me that maybe it's not true after all. Who did that particular item of evidence come from anyway? Smit?

It's not that much of an obstacle to me.

Yeah, Smit's the likely source. But then, he swears by jailhouse informants, too.