I looked for child abuse and or incest a couple of years ago because of the name Cay-Lee. I thought it was kind of creepy that the child's name was a combo of the brother and sisters name. If my 19 yr old was going to have a baby [ please, hypothetical ONLY] the last thing she would do is combine her name with her older brothers. So I thought it was very odd, especially given the ' birthfather is dead' explanation.
However, imo and imo only, I did not see abuse from the father in the chart, which is usually indicated by Saturn, Jupiter or Pluto. But there is a Mercury/Mars tight square with no harmonious outlets. So, imo, she may have had some kind of sexual interactions with her brother, but I do not know if it was forced or consensual. Again, imoo.
If I had the birth times, and the 10th/4th axis were afflicted, then I would give more credence to the father being involved.
I may be entirely wrong.
Katydid,
If you are "entirely wrong," so are Tuba, Neptunian, Housemouse, Kaitland and myself. As most of our readers know, we have been involved in the astrological analysis of this case since the beginning. None of us saw credible evidence of natal promise of sexual abuse in Casey Anthony's (untimed) birth chart, nor did we see the tell-tale markers in GA's (untimed) birth chart that typically suggest sexual obsession/ perversion.
What we did see in Casey Anthony's chart was testimony after testimony associated with manipulation, deceit and pathological lying.
Thanks,
Soulscape
Thank you, Soulscape. You and Katydid have confirmed what I have felt all along, that GA was falsely accused.
Leomoon, I really appreciate all that you post - you, too, Frigga! I think ICA is mentally ill, but that does not excuse what I believe she has done. I go back and forth on the sexual abuse - but if it happened, it does not excuse what she did. If it did not happen, her accusations are not excusable, either. As I said, I am inclined to believe those who say it happened to them, although I have worked with false accusations, too, but those are rare. I am interested in hearing more from our astrologers. I really appreciate their interpretations.
In my experience, Ceres in a natal chart is said to represent one's sense of 'mother' and one's own mothering skills and ability to nurture. Having an afflicted Ceres would be indicative of being 'abused' or neglected or overpowered by one's mother figures before it would indicate being molested by the father. imoo
Casey has Ceres retro in Virgo, opposed by Jupiter in Pisces. I would [imo] interpret that as Casey having a critical mother figure who was passive aggressive in nature, and who was in opposition to an expansive and nurturing male figure, who was too forgiving and too generous to a fault. But I see nothing in that aspect which denotes sexual assault. imoo
That Ceres also describes HER as a mother. She would feel that inner critical passive/aggressive
tension herself when it comes to being in the role of the nurturer. Being at the midpoint of Saturn/Chiron in Gemini/ Sag may bring about the urge to break free from the bonds of daily routine activities. Those things make her feel deeply insecure and unprepared. Her own mother probably added to that feeling of inferiority because Cindy was a super MOM. everything was just so and just
perfect. How could Casey ever live up to that expectation with such an afflicted sense of Ceres.
Her Ceres is the midpoint of Saturn/Chiron, and the apex of a t-square. I see that as mental stress, nervous exhaustion, perhaps double messages in the home life about honesty/dishonesty. But the mutable mode and the Saturn /Jupiter do not imply sexual
abuse in my opinion. I see it more as a battle between the sexes in the home, as the women emasculating the men, by witholding respect or love, and by being hypercritical.
The Kite is a difficult planetary formation, I agree. An under estimated formation imo.
However, imo, and imo only, it represents' leaving' the body, soaring above reality, escapism, the urge to disconnect from the physical senses. I have not seen it being a representation of physical abuse.
Casey's lies--that she has a good steady job, is in college, has a wealthy boyfriend who gave her a tiffany ring, has lots of successful friends---are the only way she can live up to her family's expectations. The kite is like something that gets out of control, goes airborne, and there is no turning back, onward and upward.
The major planetary formations in Casey's chart seems to be connected to her inability to realistically assess physical reality. I think she may be delusional at times and be at risk of losing touch with reality. But that does not seem to be tied to a father /sexuality issue imo. It seems to be her own personal demons, and inner rage. Sure, she grew up in a dysfunctional family. But I do not see it as the way she is describing it at all. imo
ETA: I can agree that she wanted to rise above her difficult home life. But I do not agree that it was because of sexual abuse by the father. I think it was more likely to do with issues surrounding the tension between the mother and father, their own lack of connection, love and respect for each other. I think she felt a real burden to be a 'perfect' child and felt wholly incapable of doing so. [ Sun in critical degree of Pisces with major afflictions from Moon and from Mars, Uranus and Neptune. I think she felt insecure and inferior in many ways and could not focus well enough to follow through on basic ordinary tasks. [ Sun = Moon/Mars, Uranus in Mutable signs.]
It's taken me time to separate emotion but now I also think that ICA is mentally ill. Just throwing my :twocents: in.
I also agree being mentally ill does not excuse what was done to Caylee.
Respectfully snipped, Leomoon80, because the thanks button wasn't enough thanks for these ideas. Casey makes me so mad smoke comes out my ears, and so sad I find myself weeping for her lost potential, for her...emptiness. Then I hear Caylee's sweet voice, so new and already so full of love, and there I go, mad as hell again, only now I hate myself for forgetting to listen to the lesson she is living for us all, and loving first....
Cayley A. cannot be helped in the physical plane now, but Casey can be, possibly.
>>>snip...<<<
[/B] Cayley was a catalyst for the lessons that Ceres attempts to teach. That of nurture and being nutured properly.
Respectfully snipped, Leomoon80, because the thanks button wasn't enough thanks for these ideas. Casey makes me so mad smoke comes out my ears, and so sad I find myself weeping for her lost potential, for her...emptiness. Then I hear Caylee's sweet voice, so new and already so full of love, and there I go, mad as hell again, only now I hate myself for forgetting to listen to the lesson she is living for us all, and loving first.
Sigh. It's crazy-making, the whole thing, including the astrology (and I mean that in the nicest way :angel which is why I wanted to say thank you so much to all of you who help us try to understand these people and these things. I don't know that I would be making the effort, honestly, without the conversations that happen within this these few threads; life is short, and there are surely better ways to live it than falling into Court TV, and yet...here I am. Here you are, and I am learning and growing every day. Thanks for that.
After reading on and on various threads here and there are so many of them on the other WS forums now some with timed events to chart , I do agree that CA has serious issues with narcissism tendencies and her manic episodes, yet the Fantasy life found in the astrology's KITE formation , is what I'm trying to understand by honing in on astrologically.
I know people who mimic the same type of personality disorders that the forum threads speak of which are evident of course, narcissist and the (pathological lying at least is a very negative Neptune negative trait) for the Apex of that Kite.
However, neither of these two I'm thinking of, have a vivid fantasy life complete with 20 people or more and making up stories as though they are true to life events as a way of life.
Many people say these personality disorders are for life and not treatable as an integral part of one's personality, but I'm just not as convinced as they are of this, in light of the fantasy world she engages seemingly, to disassociate from the reality around her.
I am not certain that she actually 'lived' this fantasy life or believed this fantasy life at all.
Her Pisces stellium of Sun, Mercury retro, and Jupiter gave her a wild imagination. But those intense squares from Mars, Uranus and Neptune forced her to deal with an intrusive reality. I do not believe she lived in her fantasies, I believe she used them to hide her reality. imoo
Her kite helped blow things out of proportion and things got out of control. But she never believed in those fantasies as being real, she believed in them as ways to cover up her actions and her behavior from others. She was cunning, and devious imo. The grand trine in her kite is in the water element.
It was her DESIRES that propelled that kite, not her fantasies. She wanted to fulfill her urges and desires, which were indicated by Moon, Pluto and Jupiter. She was passionate and loved to be in love,deeply in love. Her emotional relationships took control of her life and as the kiter soared, they swept her away.
I also think that when Cindy said that their was always "some truth to Casey's lies" was taken the wrong way.
I suppose people can believe whatever they will , but ultimately it will be up to the Jury to decide.
Subjective opinions all, but the jury too will have their own subjective take on the whys and wherefores of all that has been posted.
To place the Fantasy World creations into the "I believe" category, is simply subjective to each of us.
The why of it , that is.
The Astrology natal chart for instance , the Kite and Neptune so very prominent in her natal chart, is impossible to say with 100% certainty, (and the DP must be 100% certainty)imo, or 100% agreeing to it,
For the astrological indicators:
Only that it's critical and crucial energy in her life that will be exhibited in a likely negative fashion, that Neptune shows (imo)