Forensic Botany

[Hot Dogs]

There is some video of LE carrying 2 large plants in the middle of the road to one of their vehicles.

Was that when they were digging up the backyard, or after Caylee was found?

 

[JWG]

...ok...leaving make-believe-moderator role and returning to poster-role...

I'm curious about the report that the plant was growing through the skeletal remains and how intact it was after Meter Reader Kronk picked up the bag. I haven't paid close attn to Mr. Kronk's account, but, I envision him lifting the bag off the ground...which maybe all wrong. I've cleared plenty of fence rows where the vines are so thick its like they have every intention of 'hanging on' to whatever they've started to grow around. Soooo...maybe Mr. Kronk just lifted the bag a little and it shifted enough for the skull to come out w/o disturbing the growth THROUGH other remains OR the vines were THROUGH the skull and it didn't go far enough to disengage from the vines entirely.

Jus' noodlin' on how the scene was disturbed prior to being examined such that they could identify EXACTLY which plants had grown THROUGH the remains. It would seem to me knowing exactly which ones would be critical to establishing timeline, etc. from them.

Jus' thinking out loud.

If someone familiar w/ Kronk's account, etc. can clarify any of this I would appreciate it.

TIA!

We have not actually heard his account, just speculation. Variously, I have heard he picked up the bag, kicked it, poked it with a stick, etc. I think he probably pulled a tattered flap aside and saw the skull, and it may have appeared to role out. Certainly and adrenaline-rushing moment that can skew perception.

Also, what may be meant by "growing through the skeleton" is that the scattered bones had vegetation growing around them - entwining and entrapping them.

Also, they would have examined the growth rates of plants growing through other evidence: holes in the bag, loops of duct tape, etc.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

I'm just going to throw this out there for thought only. In the beginning of the case when we didn't have much to go on for sluething, many of us read the psychic threads. Please don't ask me to link but many of the psychic posters discussed pink flowery plants near Caylee. OOOOOEOOOO! When looking at some of the videos released of the crie scene does anyone else see these flowers? Also I guess I better google growth maturity for palmettos. How big would have those seedlings become? I'v never been able to grow plants well but after this discussion I might just go buy a hibiscus!

I do recall what was said and drawn in the psychic website. When I read todays article it gave me chills because way back from day one they talked about the flowers,shrubs, water, fence, park/school, sand and other.

 

[whiteangora]

Was that when they were digging up the backyard, or after Caylee was found?

This was from the crime scene (Suburban) in December. I've been looking for it without much luck. I remember how large the plants were with very big root systems.

 

[Theonly1]

As I recall from memory, both GA and CA referenced a hibiscus bush that they themselved dug up and moved (I want to say the weekend of July 4th) when they were doing "yardwork". This was told either to the FBI or LE (or both).

Interestingly enough, there is a thread here of Casey's deleted Photobucket pictures one of which has a hibiscus bush (art not from the A family home) with "hibiscus" written on the picture. Artsy. Weird in light of the moved bush.

 

[shadow of my mind]

Ok to start with I do gardening. Big difference as opposed to Forensic Botany.... but didn't the CSI remove a pesticide sprayer from the A's after the remains where found? I was just thinking that maybe there might be some evidence of a chemical in the plants that were found with the body.
The body decomposing acting like fertilizer…. has this chemical in it which gets pulled into the plant … something like a systemic action---[Ugh ..Yuk, hate to even type that] that should not be there since this was just plain Florida woods and not a manicured and well-tended yard that would have a chemical sprayed on it.

I understand systemic action but do not know if what would be sprayed on a body [if that is what happened, just can’t think of why else CSI took a sprayer as evidence] would then leach into plant material if that plant material was growing in the remains of the body. Kind of like the blowfly-maggots-feeding on a body show DNA of what they are feeding on.

Like I said I just do gardening…LOL

 

[Theonly1]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2779074&postcount=226

I found the post with Casey's deleted hibiscus picture.

 

[murdershewrote]

could it be possible that Casey put flowers inside the bag with Caylee....in her twisted way of thinking, this was her daughter's burial site.

 

[Theonly1]

Possible speculative links:

Sand from sandbox possibly in car trunk and also found at dump site?

Dirt from under playhouse linked to dirt in car trunk also found at dump site?

The possibilities without knowing the details are endless! But something is making me think that there is some DIRECT linkage between crime, car trunk and dump site (other than Caylee's hair).

 

[Nore]

I'm just going to throw this out there for thought only. In the beginning of the case when we didn't have much to go on for sluething, many of us read the psychic threads. Please don't ask me to link but many of the psychic posters discussed pink flowery plants near Caylee. OOOOOEOOOO! When looking at some of the videos released of the crie scene does anyone else see these flowers? Also I guess I better google growth maturity for palmettos. How big would have those seedlings become? I'v never been able to grow plants well but after this discussion I might just go buy a hibiscus!

-----------------------
They also mentioned yellow.This would still be in the psychic site.

 

[Theonly1]

Cindy tells Greta VS about hibiscus bush:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2500244&postcount=42

"Greta asked Cindy where the dogs hit by the pool and Cindy showed her where, but she said they had - just a couple of weeks before - moved a hibiscus plant that had been growing there for years, so they could move the deck box away from the pool because Caylee was starting to climb on it by the pool."

OMG!!!

 

[BondJamesBond]

FYI...on the crime scene photo link list (post#1) the ground-level view pics begin @ 195831.jpg.

 

[Theonly1]

You guys got me thinking! I always thought Caylee was stowed in the yard (be it sand box or under the playhouse) for a short time and then transferred to the car trunk at or before 2.6 days after death. I'm considering your idea that she was placed under the hibiscus bush and some kind of seed germination occured. Maybe this is far-fetched but it sure would wipe out any possibility that any non-Anthony did this if it is found to be correct.

The botany link could simply be that a plan grew through or around her skeleton that only grows in the summer thereby making it obvious that the bone was there at that time. It could be that simple.

But my mind goes back to the July 4th diggin' in the yard, the pavers, the hibiscus bush, the movement by the pool, even GA and CA telling LE they had "already searched" the yard when LE asked to do so. Hmmmmmmmmmmm...

 

[Theonly1]

My last post went POOF --maybe I need to slow down.

I think the botanist link could be as simple as a plant only known to grow in summer (May, June or July) was found wrapped or growing through parts of Caylee's skeleton. Obviously, this would lead one to believe the bone/s had been there since a certain date.

Or perhaps it is more complicated. Perhaps there is some link directly involving the backyard (like pavers, dirt under the playhouse, sand from sandbox or seeds from the hibiscus bush) found at the dump site. Lord have mercy, InvisiNanny certainly would not have that link (a backyard link) with the A family home. I don't think InvisiNanny would even know the dump site (as it was allegedly a Casey school age hangout).

I just can't shake the niggling details about CA and GA moving that hibiscus bush (wasn't it the July 4th weekend), the diggin', the pavers under the playhouse, etc. Even they allegedly told LE that they had "already searched" the backyard when LE first requested to do so. Things that make ya go HMMMMMMM...

 

[Theonly1]

delete

 

[Theonly1]

delete

 

[MaryAnn]

Possible speculative links:

Sand from sandbox possibly in car trunk and also found at dump site?

Dirt from under playhouse linked to dirt in car trunk also found at dump site?

The possibilities without knowing the details are endless! But something is making me think that there is some DIRECT linkage between crime, car trunk and dump site (other than Caylee's hair).

Didn't LP say they found "pavers" 10 feet from Caylee's remains? They could easily match those up to the ones in the A's yard.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Cindy tells Greta VS about hibiscus bush:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2500244&postcount=42

"Greta asked Cindy where the dogs hit by the pool and Cindy showed her where, but she said they had - just a couple of weeks before - moved a hibiscus plant that had been growing there for years, so they could move the deck box away from the pool because Caylee was starting to climb on it by the pool."

OMG!!!

I recall this interview and can not find the transcripts anywhere. For some reason Greata only goes back to Nov. Were they saved here in the forum somewhere?

 

[CarolinaMoon]

I have an old bag of mulch in the back yard and I haven't moved it because there are tree roots growing into it. When they said that plants were growing through the skeleton, I am imagining that the bag was there so long that roots from very "tough" plants breached the plastic bag and began their journey up through the skeletal remains.

Also, any foliage under the bag would have died off due to lack of sunlight and a good forensic botonist can probably date when plants in that area were the same stage of growth.

 

[whiteangora]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wc8bPitJsE

I finally found the video, it is not very good quality but you can see how large the 2 plants are. They can be seen at the 2:15 min. mark and the 2:40 mark.