France - Mother & four children slain, buried in Nantes garden, 5 April 2011

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by badhorsie, Apr 23, 2011.

  1. badhorsie

    badhorsie Mouth operational, brain elsewhere...

    Messages:
    3,282
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    36
    At first, it seemed like a bizarre case of a middle-class family who packed up their home and fled to another continent for a new life. Neighbours of the Dupont de Ligonnès and their four children called the police when they noticed the family home in the north-western city of Nantes seemed unusually deserted. The children's school had been notified of a "sudden job transfer" to Australia, the family's wardrobes had been emptied and the letter-box was taped-up with a note "return all mail to sender".

    But this week when police looked closer at the townhouse – and the suspicious building work on the patio – they found a severed human leg buried in the garden. Further digs revealed a one-legged corpse, and four others:

    Much more here
     
  2. Loading...


  3. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

    Messages:
    30,162
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    And here's Daily Mail's take on the horrific French garden:

    Police hunt for 'devout Catholic' businessman after bodies of
    his wife, four children and two pet dogs found in freshly-dug grave
    Much more, and with many pictures, at link above.
     
  4. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

    Messages:
    30,162
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    One of those chilling little details, from badhorsie's Guardian link above:

     
  5. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

    Messages:
    30,162
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
  6. STEADFAST

    STEADFAST New Member

    Messages:
    9,164
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The Guardian article was worded so weirdly.
    Complicated? I'd say the father giving contradictory information about his family disappearing simplifies the investigation.
     
  7. STEADFAST

    STEADFAST New Member

    Messages:
    9,164
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
  8. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

    Messages:
    30,162
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think the Guardian chose an awkward way to introduce the awkward idea that the mother may have been complicit in some of the secrecy (though not the deaths):

    and
    Rest in peace, may they all.
     
  9. tapu

    tapu Pretty scary.

    Messages:
    2,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Shooting 5 people, mostly adults... in the same house... one after another. Did he maybe march them separately into one room at gunpoint and tie them up then go get another? Doesn't seem like he could shoot too many before the others could escape.... Or... was there more than one shooter or at least an accomplice?

    I'm probably just being dense on this one. Help me out here.
     
  10. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

    Messages:
    30,162
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What bugs me is the severed leg.
     
  11. tapu

    tapu Pretty scary.

    Messages:
    2,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ah. Read at the first two links, missed the googly one. Thank you, wuff-gah.


    The severed leg.... He could have planned to dismember and dispose of differently, but once he started, well, it would be quite the job to dismember 5 adults.
     
  12. STEADFAST

    STEADFAST New Member

    Messages:
    9,164
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    One of those 3 articles below had a quote from a worker at a shooting range saying that the dad asked him about silencers and also saying he had seen the dad with a silencer. They were shot while they were asleep, it looks like.
     
  13. STEADFAST

    STEADFAST New Member

    Messages:
    9,164
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    But the other articles put all the messages about the family leaving the area as being from the dad. When the mom asked her friend to pray for her, it really doesn't indicate anything except things were really bad at home. Just annoyed me how the Guardian acted like this was such a perplexing mystery. Maybe they should look in their archives for "Entwistle."
     
  14. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

    Messages:
    30,162
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The Sunday Mail and the Telegraph articles both quote this snippet:

    It's true that the more bizarre pronouncements are attributed to the father only, as here, from The Sun:
    But I do wonder if the actions of the wife and mother, in perhaps "going along" with certain things, did enable somewhat the madness of the husband and father - perhaps he duped her into the "going to Australia" notion, and she thought all would be well.

    I am reminded, somewhat, of the John List family murders - both of the men were devout Christians - List a Lutheran, Dupont de Ligonnès a Catholic; both killed every family member living with him. It would not surprise me at all if Dupont de Ligonnès were acting from a religious mania, as List did. We shall see.
     
  15. tapu

    tapu Pretty scary.

    Messages:
    2,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The List murders popped into my head immediately, too.

    Interesting that you characterize both sets of murders as stemming from religious mania. I can see that angle. Both men had lost financial control, and were deeply indoctrinated and committed to religious characterizations of the Father as provider and protector.

    A question that always arises around patriarchal familicide is "Why did he think he had to take his whole family with him?" This gives a peek into that mindset. I don't want to set anything off here--really, really I don't--but are there any instances of familicide in the Old Testament?

    upon edit: Just googled that and no biblical refs popped up; however, I did see it noted that some Christian familicidal fathers have noted their faith in the after-life as a reason for viewing their acts as sanctioned (e.g., Christian Longo, and I think List himself). I don't know though.... I can see that more as deflection from their deeper need to avoid shame.
     
  16. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

    Messages:
    30,162
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes, me too on the googling around, and yes, List alleged he'd not killed himself along with the family on the promise of "getting together with the family again in heaven" notion - this from a guy who shot his oldest son TEN TIMES. The Old Testament God did command Abraham to kill his son Isaac, something I remember less from my Lutheran catechizing than I do from Mr Bobby Dylan:

    Oh God said to Abraham, “Kill me a son”
    Abe says, “Man, you must be puttin’ me on”
    God say, “No.” Abe say, “What?”
    God say, “You can do what you want Abe, but
    The next time you see me comin’ you better run”
    Well Abe says, “Where do you want this killin’ done?”
    God says, “Out on Highway 61”

    Ah - love that song. But, really, familicide in the Old Testament would have been a drop in a bloody bucket; here's a list of OT God's going over the top and slaying anyone who so much as looked at Him cross-eyed: Old Testament Atrocities.

    I do believe John List killed his family for his stated reason; yes, he had money problems too, but I doubt he could have led such an apparently conscience-free existence for almost two decades of freedom were he not mentally (and dementedly) "right with the Lord." The jury's out on M. Dupont de Ligonnès's reasoning for his (apparent) rash deed.
     
  17. badhorsie

    badhorsie Mouth operational, brain elsewhere...

    Messages:
    3,282
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    36
    And the purported reason that List did not kill himself was that he believed that if he committed suicide then he wouldn't be reunited with his family in heaven:waitasec:
     
  18. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

    Messages:
    30,162
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Depending upon the synodical beliefs of Mr List's chosen place of worship, of course, but the larger synods do not teach that suicide guarantees a Lutheran's damnation. I've always wondered about the particular teachings of his branch of the church. I guess it doesn't matter - List's personal beliefs were stronger than any church teaching; he in effect became God when he chose to end lives.
     
  19. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

    Messages:
    30,162
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    At long last, more info:

    European warrant launched for murdered family's father

    Further details at link above.
     
  20. tapu

    tapu Pretty scary.

    Messages:
    2,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ya know... I don't think I've ever read anything related to List and an actual church that he attended. I recall the Lutheran affiliation, but have never read about his pastor (or whatever Luthers call them) or anyone from his church. No report and no quotes.

    You guys seen anything?
     
  21. mysteriew

    mysteriew A diamond in process

    Messages:
    23,795
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Sounds to me like she may have been forced to make calls, like calls to people you would be expected to advise that you were moving out of the area. She may have been forced to do this, knowing but afraid to say that he planned on killing them.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice