GA GA - Jenna Van Gelderen, 25, Atlanta, 18 Aug 2017 #3

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@Subie,

Were LE able to recover any of the 'wiped' material of Jennas? Has Jenna posted anything non-publically on fb since Aug 2016? I dont need to know details but just checking whether she posted in the last year.

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@Subie,

Were LE able to recover any of the 'wiped' material of Jennas? Has Jenna posted anything non-publically on fb since Aug 2016? I dont need to know details but just checking whether she posted in the last year.

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk

Yes she has , but nothing relevant from that week .
We have also posted a go fund me to help with investigative costs and increasing the reward. Can I post the link here?

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Hey guys sorry Yom Kippur today and fasting.
Parents are upset again with the LE. A friend of Jennas reached out to us on Facebook. Was in contact with her that night. One of last callers on her TMobile account but police never called him despite having the logs for 5 weeks now. Has more info on her plans for that night. We know from.him that Jenna had mentioned why she was not driving her car due to the insurance.
I'm upset if they haven't interviewed EVERYONE who was in contact with her between the "get together" and the time she was last seen. By phone, at the very least. I'm sure they have reasons; not enough manpower, etc., but it sure is a sad state of affairs.
 
Yes she has , but nothing relevant from that week .
We have also posted a go fund me to help with investigative costs and increasing the reward. Can I post the link here?

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I dont see why not but you might have to ask a mod and i dont know how sorry :( there is a way but i cant see it on this app. What a fantastic idea, i really hope it generates more leads for you.

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Yes she has , but nothing relevant from that week .
We have also posted a go fund me to help with investigative costs and increasing the reward. Can I post the link here?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
I have found it! Ive reported it to mods fpr you and hopefully you will get a reply very soon

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk
 
Hey guys sorry Yom Kippur today and fasting.
Parents are upset again with the LE. A friend of Jennas reached out to us on Facebook. Was in contact with her that night. One of last callers on her TMobile account but police never called him despite having the logs for 5 weeks now. Has more info on her plans for that night. We know from.him that Jenna had mentioned why she was not driving her car due to the insurance.

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Upsetting for you and your family (to be honest makes me mad) Hope they act on it soon now. It seems important info.
 
I was asked to offer some suggestions and I've been trying to read through it but it's just soooo long and a lot of folks are repeating the same thing again and again.

I'm not going to point fingers or attach any relevance to anything but I will tell you that folks can and do hide things. We think we know all about someone, even a family member, and suddenly we find out we really never knew much about them in the first place. Looking at the entire thread with neutral eyes, the below is my take.

First, starting at the beginning, there was a bunch of mentions about how this person was very loud about not using drugs. I'll just quote some Shakespeare here.... "methinks thou doth protest to much...." One thing that sets off the alarm is someone who makes a big deal of how innocent, etc they are. Yes, they could be but normally anything above or beyond a certain level just sets off the bogus meter. With the huge opioid issue affecting this country, I hesitate to say someone isn't using. People you would never suspect. So for me, the strength attributed to her not using, plus the missing money raises a red flag that this may not be totally accurate. Yes, she could have been stealing for someone else but lacking that data I would have to say it was for her personal benefit.

Second, People are allowed to go missing in this country. Much has been made mention of the autism spectrum but she is clearly an adult functioning and performing all the adult things and clearly knows enough on how to conceal or hide things as evidenced by the other cell phone and such. It may not always be what you or I would chose to do, or what the family would like but people are allowed to do what they desire.

Her car was clearly dumped, so how did the driver get picked up? In today's society, no one walks anywhere if they can get a ride. But the car is also very visible and gets noticed so I see why someone decides to get rid of it.

One of the things I was taught to do when you get stuck working a search is to stop building. You cycle stuff back to zero and start again as if you never started. Throw out what you were told. Trust your dog and what it does. Take what the dog does and bounce that off what you were told. Not the other way around. Don't assume anything you were told is true. During an investigation, cops hold things close to the vest as they don't want to miss something or clue someone off. Forums such as this are read by everyone. Good guys, bad guys, and everyone in between. Information is withheld or circumstances changed. Only if the information can be independently validated would I trust it. In these cases, I remember the following saying: When you hear hoofbeats, think horses not zebras.

What I'm thinking is that Jenna is missing of her own volition. She actively assisted with this. For whatever reason, she has decided to disappear and she had help. Maybe it was the family involvement in her life, maybe it was the going to court over the stolen money. Maybe it was someone voicing the idea and her agreeing to it. Maybe it was her way of shedding her skin and starting off somewhere new in a place where people don't know her. People who are actively evading or actively assisting in their own disappearance are the hardest ones to locate. They are the most knowledgeable to know what to avoid and what to change to 'disappear'. The missing tapestry, carefully removed and the frame rehung, tells me someone took that for personal reasons. Either sentimental or for remembrance. Trying to sell it presents a host of problems and it's easily remembered so I don't see that showing up in a pawn shop any time soon.

What I don't know is if Jenna's getting exactly what she wanted. Best of intentions and all that. We have all seen people get a great idea and then realizing it's not turning out the way they expected (or desired) and not being able to break free. But my gut feeling at this point in time is that she set this chain of events in motion. She actively, willing, participated. Friends may be covering for her especially if they feel it is helping her. If Jenna feels her family is the problem then they will help keep the family from finding her until something doesn't feel right anymore. The car was dumped because it wasn't needed anymore. Other means of transportation have been established. I will also say that these kind of investigations can be a slog-fest. A quick flurry of information and then nothing. Leads are chased down, people develop a guilty conscious. It's not unknown for investigations to take months or even years.

I think folks need to change their perspectives. This may not be an abduction but a voluntary absence. Bounce the information off of that for a while.
 
If memory serves, a woman emailed a tip. Maybe subie can clarify for us if the tip went to the gmail address that was set up. I noted that subie said the email addy was for the PI which leads me to believe that tips were being received by the family rather than LE. But I dont want to assume that.

It would be good to know if LE called dad or if tip was funneled through family and they contacted LE just for my own internal thoughts.

http://atlantajewishtimes.timesofisrael.com/car-not-woman-found/

‘Whiledriving to her gym, a Morningside woman who was following the case spotted thecar parked along Defoor Place off Chattahoochee Avenue in NW Atlanta. Jenna’sfather, Leon Van Gelderen, met police at the scene but honored a police requestto keep quiet about the discovery for more than a week’
 
I was asked to offer some suggestions and I've been trying to read through it but it's just soooo long and a lot of folks are repeating the same thing again and again.

I'm not going to point fingers or attach any relevance to anything but I will tell you that folks can and do hide things. We think we know all about someone, even a family member, and suddenly we find out we really never knew much about them in the first place. Looking at the entire thread with neutral eyes, the below is my take.

First, starting at the beginning, there was a bunch of mentions about how this person was very loud about not using drugs. I'll just quote some Shakespeare here.... "methinks thou doth protest to much...." One thing that sets off the alarm is someone who makes a big deal of how innocent, etc they are. Yes, they could be but normally anything above or beyond a certain level just sets off the bogus meter. With the huge opioid issue affecting this country, I hesitate to say someone isn't using. People you would never suspect. So for me, the strength attributed to her not using, plus the missing money raises a red flag that this may not be totally accurate. Yes, she could have been stealing for someone else but lacking that data I would have to say it was for her personal benefit.

Second, People are allowed to go missing in this country. Much has been made mention of the autism spectrum but she is clearly an adult functioning and performing all the adult things and clearly knows enough on how to conceal or hide things as evidenced by the other cell phone and such. It may not always be what you or I would chose to do, or what the family would like but people are allowed to do what they desire.

Her car was clearly dumped, so how did the driver get picked up? In today's society, no one walks anywhere if they can get a ride. But the car is also very visible and gets noticed so I see why someone decides to get rid of it.

One of the things I was taught to do when you get stuck working a search is to stop building. You cycle stuff back to zero and start again as if you never started. Throw out what you were told. Trust your dog and what it does. Take what the dog does and bounce that off what you were told. Not the other way around. Don't assume anything you were told is true. During an investigation, cops hold things close to the vest as they don't want to miss something or clue someone off. Forums such as this are read by everyone. Good guys, bad guys, and everyone in between. Information is withheld or circumstances changed. Only if the information can be independently validated would I trust it. In these cases, I remember the following saying: When you hear hoofbeats, think horses not zebras.

What I'm thinking is that Jenna is missing of her own volition. She actively assisted with this. For whatever reason, she has decided to disappear and she had help. Maybe it was the family involvement in her life, maybe it was the going to court over the stolen money. Maybe it was someone voicing the idea and her agreeing to it. Maybe it was her way of shedding her skin and starting off somewhere new in a place where people don't know her. People who are actively evading or actively assisting in their own disappearance are the hardest ones to locate. They are the most knowledgeable to know what to avoid and what to change to 'disappear'. The missing tapestry, carefully removed and the frame rehung, tells me someone took that for personal reasons. Either sentimental or for remembrance. Trying to sell it presents a host of problems and it's easily remembered so I don't see that showing up in a pawn shop any time soon.

What I don't know is if Jenna's getting exactly what she wanted. Best of intentions and all that. We have all seen people get a great idea and then realizing it's not turning out the way they expected (or desired) and not being able to break free. But my gut feeling at this point in time is that she set this chain of events in motion. She actively, willing, participated. Friends may be covering for her especially if they feel it is helping her. If Jenna feels her family is the problem then they will help keep the family from finding her until something doesn't feel right anymore. The car was dumped because it wasn't needed anymore. Other means of transportation have been established. I will also say that these kind of investigations can be a slog-fest. A quick flurry of information and then nothing. Leads are chased down, people develop a guilty conscious. It's not unknown for investigations to take months or even years.

I think folks need to change their perspectives. This may not be an abduction but a voluntary absence. Bounce the information off of that for a while.
There are a few facts that don't support this theory though.

1) She was taking care of a sick cat that she loved. Her brother was gone for the weekend and she bolted the door so the vet couldn't get in to administer medicine.

2) She left her clothes, ID and Debit card behind. Her account was not drained, so she has no money.

3) Her car was found 2 and a half weeks after she disappeared. So, she is without transportation.

4) According to her family her disappearance is contrary to her nature.

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There are a few facts that don't support this theory though.

1) She was taking care of a sick cat that she loved. Her brother was gone for the weekend and she bolted the door so the vet couldn't get in to administer medicine.

2) She left her clothes, ID and Debit card behind. Her account was not drained, so she has no money.

3) Her car was found 2 and a half weeks after she disappeared. So, she is without transportation.

4) According to her family her disappearance is contrary to her nature.

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Also we have now from the p.i. two verified friends that have also stated this is not like her to just take off and that she had even said she can't be out late because she needed to be home with the cat.


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Yes she has , but nothing relevant from that week .
We have also posted a go fund me to help with investigative costs and increasing the reward. Can I post the link here?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

is usually against the rules unless the site owner makes an exception. I sent an alert for a mod to respond and let us know if you can post it.
In the meantime, we HAVE been allowed to post the Help Find Jenna Facebook page in the thread in the past: https://www.facebook.com/HelpFindJennaVG/
People should be able to easily find the info and follow the link there ;)
 
I was asked to offer some suggestions and I've been trying to read through it but it's just soooo long and a lot of folks are repeating the same thing again and again.

I'm not going to point fingers or attach any relevance to anything but I will tell you that folks can and do hide things. We think we know all about someone, even a family member, and suddenly we find out we really never knew much about them in the first place. Looking at the entire thread with neutral eyes, the below is my take.

First, starting at the beginning, there was a bunch of mentions about how this person was very loud about not using drugs. I'll just quote some Shakespeare here.... "methinks thou doth protest to much...." One thing that sets off the alarm is someone who makes a big deal of how innocent, etc they are. Yes, they could be but normally anything above or beyond a certain level just sets off the bogus meter. With the huge opioid issue affecting this country, I hesitate to say someone isn't using. People you would never suspect. So for me, the strength attributed to her not using, plus the missing money raises a red flag that this may not be totally accurate. Yes, she could have been stealing for someone else but lacking that data I would have to say it was for her personal benefit.

Second, People are allowed to go missing in this country. Much has been made mention of the autism spectrum but she is clearly an adult functioning and performing all the adult things and clearly knows enough on how to conceal or hide things as evidenced by the other cell phone and such. It may not always be what you or I would chose to do, or what the family would like but people are allowed to do what they desire.

Her car was clearly dumped, so how did the driver get picked up? In today's society, no one walks anywhere if they can get a ride. But the car is also very visible and gets noticed so I see why someone decides to get rid of it.

One of the things I was taught to do when you get stuck working a search is to stop building. You cycle stuff back to zero and start again as if you never started. Throw out what you were told. Trust your dog and what it does. Take what the dog does and bounce that off what you were told. Not the other way around. Don't assume anything you were told is true. During an investigation, cops hold things close to the vest as they don't want to miss something or clue someone off. Forums such as this are read by everyone. Good guys, bad guys, and everyone in between. Information is withheld or circumstances changed. Only if the information can be independently validated would I trust it. In these cases, I remember the following saying: When you hear hoofbeats, think horses not zebras.

What I'm thinking is that Jenna is missing of her own volition. She actively assisted with this. For whatever reason, she has decided to disappear and she had help. Maybe it was the family involvement in her life, maybe it was the going to court over the stolen money. Maybe it was someone voicing the idea and her agreeing to it. Maybe it was her way of shedding her skin and starting off somewhere new in a place where people don't know her. People who are actively evading or actively assisting in their own disappearance are the hardest ones to locate. They are the most knowledgeable to know what to avoid and what to change to 'disappear'. The missing tapestry, carefully removed and the frame rehung, tells me someone took that for personal reasons. Either sentimental or for remembrance. Trying to sell it presents a host of problems and it's easily remembered so I don't see that showing up in a pawn shop any time soon.

What I don't know is if Jenna's getting exactly what she wanted. Best of intentions and all that. We have all seen people get a great idea and then realizing it's not turning out the way they expected (or desired) and not being able to break free. But my gut feeling at this point in time is that she set this chain of events in motion. She actively, willing, participated. Friends may be covering for her especially if they feel it is helping her. If Jenna feels her family is the problem then they will help keep the family from finding her until something doesn't feel right anymore. The car was dumped because it wasn't needed anymore. Other means of transportation have been established. I will also say that these kind of investigations can be a slog-fest. A quick flurry of information and then nothing. Leads are chased down, people develop a guilty conscious. It's not unknown for investigations to take months or even years.

I think folks need to change their perspectives. This may not be an abduction but a voluntary absence. Bounce the information off of that for a while.

Wonderful, down to earth, post, good points, <modsnip> Off course you shouldn't believe everything that is said. Use your life experience and common sense. Obviously you do. Considering the sources, the "picture" created of what Jenna is like and what might have happened is colored by family/media/friends in certain ways and that is totally understandable, It's normal that people loose the neutral and critical look, getting involved. I think it's hard to "take in" for loved ones that Jenna could have left on her own accord. Still a possibility, but I don't think that. Maybe there is room for this thoughts if you excluded everything else, considering the facts. Back to the drawing table you say...I agree. For the record: I made the case-story/timeline with neutral eyes. just giving back what was written about this case. No speculation, just a mirror (at least I tried to) I didn't speculate at all. People can think of the info/theorize about this case in whatever way they choose. I'm not with anybody and not against anybody, and maybe I just colored the story by trying so hard not to.
 
That was a great post by K9 Snoop
I happen to agree she left by her own free will.

own family didn't know where she was living.
she has secrets and problems and its not the autism.

All JMO
 
Here's the other thing. Never assume. Anything. Unless a camera backs it up, do not assume Jenna was the one using the debit card. Or was even at those gas stations. It could all be laid down as smoke and mirrors.

I love the neutral worded posts of Bit of Hope as a nice outline of events. She asked some good questions and interesting observations. Something like this should go on the front of every new string of the same thread. Saves a lot of repeating yourself. Thanks Bit of Hope.
 
Yes she has , but nothing relevant from that week .
We have also posted a go fund me to help with investigative costs and increasing the reward. Can I post the link here?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

is usually against the rules unless the site owner makes an exception. I sent an alert for a mod to respond and let us know if you can post it.
In the meantime, we HAVE been allowed to post the Help Find Jenna Facebook page in the thread in the past: https://www.facebook.com/HelpFindJennaVG/
People should be able to easily find the info and follow the link there ;)

Thank you, Gardener1850!

subie_climber, I'm very sorry, but it is against the rules to post a direct link to a page. However, as Gardener1850 said, the link to the Help Find Jenna FB page is permitted and folks can access the page from there. :)
 
Here's the other thing. Never assume. Anything. Unless a camera backs it up, do not assume Jenna was the one using the debit card. Or was even at those gas stations. It could all be laid down as smoke and mirrors.

I love the neutral worded posts of Bit of Hope as a nice outline of events. She asked some good questions and interesting observations. Something like this should go on the front of every new string of the same thread. Saves a lot of repeating yourself. Thanks Bit of Hope.
I agree with you that nothing should ever be assumed. However, I also believe that using the only evidence you have to run different scenarios/theories is a good place to start. When someone is missing, there are always far more questions than answers. I don't see any poster as right or wrong. I just see many individuals in this forum displaying genuine concern for Jenna and her family and wanting to help.

I also agree that we don't know who used the debit card at those gas stations. Maybe it was Jenna, maybe it was a friend of hers or maybe it was a complete stranger. As I stated above, to me, the point of this forum is to use what information is publicly available to bounce theories in hopes that Jenna is found.

That said, I truly appreciate your perspective on what you feel may have happened to Jenna. If Jenna did leave on her own accord, which she may well have, that doesn't negate the fact that she may be in trouble now. Her family has stated numerous times that Jenna's ability to perceive danger is limited, which is supported by her high functioning autism diagnosis. Therefore, IMO, she is at a greater risk than the average person that elects to "disappear" of their own accord.

Further, I agree with your thoughts on Bit of Hope's posts!
 
If Jenna is voluntarily missing, I hope she reaches out to family to let them know she is OK. She can still head on about the business of living but letting them know she is well would be great.

I will be honest and say that I think the likelihood of her being the victim of foul play strikes me as being equally possible. Clearly there are things that are not lining up at least in my mind.
 
I was wondering if we could revisit the Wendy's stop. I would think that someone at the Wendy's is a witness at the minimum if not someone she knew and had seen there before. Subie, is there more for the timeline regarding that stop and anyone who could shed some light on who she was with?

ETA: Bit of hope's timeline references the stop as popping up on Google Maps, and VI made reference to a straw covering that supported this possibility. The only thing I cant find is which car was being driven at the time of the Wendy's stop.
 
In thinking about the previous comments that Jenna is voluntarily missing, would it be advisable for the family to start transmitting a personal message to Jenna? Maybe something along the lines of she is not in trouble and they just want her to make contact with them or LE and let them know that she is safe?

I wish that I could shake the feeling that she in trouble and believe that Jenna is okay. But, I am finding that hard to do.
 
I was wondering if we could revisit the Wendy's stop. I would think that someone at the Wendy's is a witness at the minimum if not someone she knew and had seen there before. Subie, is there more for the timeline regarding that stop and anyone who could shed some light on who she was with?

ETA: Bit of hope's timeline references the stop as popping up on Google Maps, and VI made reference to a straw covering that supported this possibility. The only thing I cant find is which car was being driven at the time of the Wendy's stop.
It was her mom's car at the time.

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