GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 # 1

[Sonya610]

Giddings family provides more clues:

•Police told him they have not confirmed where his daughter was killed but they are leaning toward the apartment as the scene of the crime.

•He said there was no sign of a struggle at the apartment.

•He said that police lead the family to believe they will know more in the next two-to-three days.

•He said his daughter had been using her cell phone and sending emails until about 10:30 p.m. on the night she was last seen, on Saturday, June 25.

http://www.13wmaz.com/news/article/134814/175/Giddings-Family-Offers-New-Details-of-Investigation

 

[SaMy]

I guess it's sort of off topic, but my heart breaks for her parents. Imagine having to go into her apartment knowing or suspecting that something so horrific happened to your baby in the very place you now stand RIP Lauren and may your family and friends find some peace.

 

[angelanalyzes]

My whole problem with the offsite theory is why on earth would the killer return to the apartment where a search is going to begin?? That seems incredibly risky, even if the killer wanted the torso found, they could have placed it somewhere easy to find but somewhere less likely to be occupied by some sort of nosey LE.

It seems way more likely for the bulk of the murder and dismemberment to have occurred at the very least somewhere extremely close.

And if indeed the murder happened days before the torso was found, wouldn't that have left enough time for the killer to clean up after themselves?

Hey Lomaker!
I agree, my money would be on this having happened in the apartments themselves. I wrote a disclaimer on my website about presuming McDaniel to be innocent but...I don't think it looks good for him. <modsnip> Still can't figure out why LE isn't saying more about what they know, unless they are just trying to get all of their ducks in a row.
There is a reason they searched that vacant apartment. Reportedly, the complex had more than one unoccupied unit, but they zeroed in on the one below McD's. And if they found what I've heard they found...this probably wasn't even the first offense.

 

[sue4141]

Ok so I agree the boy has to have a car. The Fish and Pig is at Lake Tobesofkee which is a good ways away from downtown. Either that or he hitched a ride with a friend. Surely if he has a car, they have impounded that. Have we heard anything about it?

 

[WideOpen]

Was watching the video and at about 1:15-1:30 secs there is a conversation about Lauren's car. Maybe if the crime originated in Laurens apartment her own car was used to transport her to another location or is part of the crime scene itself.

http://www.13wmaz.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=1034114633001

 

[SaMy]

Okay...I'm bothered by the skeleton key. Has anyone heard how McD came to possess the skeleton key? Does the landlord say he was authorized to have that?

 

[angelanalyzes]

Okay...I'm bothered by the skeleton key. Has anyone heard how McD came to possess the skeleton key? Does the landlord say he was authorized to have that?

Either that or if he's clever he could have stolen it from the landlord. Being sneaky seems to be his MO.

 

[JeannieC]

I'm new to WS so please accept what I'm about to ask as a question and not an opinion and please excuse my nescience.

IF a person removed all the shelves from a refrigerator would a torso fit?
How long does a body have to be in the GA heat (I don't know how hot it was when her body was found) for it to begin smelling?
One other question.. how long until rigamortis sets in and doesn't that make a body heavier and harder to handle?

 

[Knox]

I guess it's sort of off topic, but my heart breaks for her parents. Imagine having to go into her apartment knowing or suspecting that something so horrific happened to your baby in the very place you now stand RIP Lauren and may your family and friends find some peace.

Not off-topic at all. Watching the video of her parents entering the apartment was horrible. I used to say I hope the family gets closure, but I have watched many interviews in which family members say there is no closure. Cammy Wilberger said it best.

My heart goes out to the Giddings family.

 

[Indy Anna]

Thank you, Angelanalyzes. I had wondered if there was another vacant apartment below McD's because there appear to be four units in the photos. So, it sounds like McD and LG were the only two tenants left in the building. Since the academic year had just ended, the other two apartments had likely been vacated only recently.

Whenever a tenant vacates an apartment, maintenance repairs usually begin immediately in preparation for the next tenant. If the perp had access to a vacant apartment - either McD, who is said to have the master key, or perhaps a maintenance worker - it would be the ideal place to perform the messy work. The perp, then, could not be directly connected to the crime scene and evidence would later be contaminated by unsuspecting repairmen. I'm wondering if LE searched the plumbing in the vacant units as well as McD's & LG's apartments - and not just bathroom plumbing in all of the units, but also kitchen plumbing, i.e., garbage disposals?

It's likely the perp gained access to LG's apartment either before she entered or while she was in another room. Since there apparently was no sign of a struggle in LG's apartment, the perp probably waylaid her and maybe strangled her. If McD is the culprit and Lauren had even the opportunity to scream for help, there wouldn't have been anyone else nearby to hear her. The thought gives me chills.

If the perp was careful not to leave evidence of a crime in the victim's apartment, why would he then take the body to another unit and dismember it? Other than to engage in cannibalism, could he have been trying to dispose of the body little by little so as not to be detected? He wouldn't have known when people would start to get suspicious and investigate. Maybe LE started to search before he could completely dispose of the body, so he quickly ditched the remainder.

 

[JeannieC]

Thank you, Angelanalyzes. I had wondered if there was another vacant apartment below McD's because there appear to be four units in the photos. So, it sounds like McD and LG were the only two tenants left in the building. Since the academic year had just ended, the other two apartments had likely been vacated only recently.

Whenever a tenant vacates an apartment, maintenance repairs usually begin immediately in preparation for the next tenant. If the perp had access to a vacant apartment - either McD, who is said to have the master key, or perhaps a maintenance worker - it would be the ideal place to perform the messy work. The perp, then, could not be directly connected to the crime scene and evidence would later be contaminated by unsuspecting repairmen. I'm wondering if LE searched the plumbing in the vacant units as well as McD's & LG's apartments - and not just bathroom plumbing in all of the units, but also kitchen plumbing, i.e., garbage disposals?

It's likely the perp gained access to LG's apartment either before she entered or while she was in another room. Since there apparently was no sign of a struggle in LG's apartment, the perp probably waylaid her and maybe strangled her. If McD is the culprit and Lauren had even the opportunity to scream for help, there wouldn't have been anyone else nearby to hear her. The thought gives me chills.

If the perp was careful not to leave evidence of a crime in the victim's apartment, why would he then take the body to another unit and dismember it? Other than to engage in cannibalism, could he have been trying to dispose of the body little by little so as not to be detected? He wouldn't have known when people would start to get suspicious and investigate. Maybe LE started to search before he could completely dispose of the body, so he quickly ditched the remainder.

I hope and pray you're wrong about the cannibalism. I've seen others post the same thought.

 

[angelanalyzes]

If the perp was careful not to leave evidence of a crime in the victim's apartment, why would he then take the body to another unit and dismember it? Other than to engage in cannibalism, could he have been trying to dispose of the body little by little so as not to be detected? He wouldn't have known when people would start to get suspicious and investigate. Maybe LE started to search before he could completely dispose of the body, so he quickly ditched the remainder.

Anything is possible, but he took a far greater risk of leaving DNA evidence, toolmarks behind not to mention the chance of someone seeing or smelling something odd by keeping the body around. He is a law student so I'm sure he knew a thing or two about criminal investigations. If he was really afraid of being detected it just doesn't seem to make sense that he'd take all those risks. The more trips you make to dispose of body parts, the more chances you take of being seen in the area the body parts were recovered. Think about how intensely nervous one would be, knowingly carrying around human body parts to dump them somewhere. Also, it has been said that it was common knowledge that Giddings was getting ready to move out so he'd have to guess that at least a week later people would be looking for her. He may not have foreseen the cops going through the whole complex [as is evidenced by his failure to hide whatever personal items that were so obviously stolen to LE that he confessed that day] including his apartment and the vacant apartment.
We do not yet know for sure why the vacant unit is being searched, but we do know that Lauren's bath tub was removed. It is entirely plausible that [if it was McD] he decided to cut her up in her apartment rather than risk being seen dragging her into his own. If she was in pieces before he left the apartment, he could carry them out in bags, maybe a couple at a time. The vacant apartment would have been selected to keep the evidence somewhere other than his residence. He'd have to have gotten her out of her apartment at some point because he would know it wasn't safe, one of her friends or her boyfriend could have dropped by.
The only thing that makes sense to me is that he wanted to hold onto her body/parts, and he WANTED to dismember her, not that he needed to for a pragmatic purpose. JMO

 

[angelanalyzes]

I'm new to WS so please accept what I'm about to ask as a question and not an opinion and please excuse my nescience.

IF a person removed all the shelves from a refrigerator would a torso fit?
How long does a body have to be in the GA heat (I don't know how hot it was when her body was found) for it to begin smelling?
One other question.. how long until rigamortis sets in and doesn't that make a body heavier and harder to handle?

Rigor sets in relatively early in the process of decay and then subsides. It is related to lividity, blood pooling, and depending on where her body was cut, above or below the pelvis, much of the blood may have drained out causing the decomposition process to be unlike that of a whole body.
At any rate, in a typical case with an intact body, rigor would have set in a few hours after she died that night, reached its peak around 12 after death, and by sometime Tuesday it would have declined. I also think it might be easier to lift a stiff body than a limp one, based on unpleasant personal experience. With the body stiffened it feels less like dead weight. I think.
I'm new here too, nice to meet you

 

[angelanalyzes]

Well leaving the body outside the victims front door is pretty risky too (if they live there). If they managed to clean up all the evidence (i.e. hacksaw, knives, bloody clothes, etc...) why in the heck not put the torso somewhere ELSE if discovery was a concern? Discovery was not a concern which is why they put the torso in such an obvious place.

Discovery wasn't a concern as much as was being discovered in possession of the remains. :twocents:

If the person had no way of transporting the torso out of their BUT they wanted to hide all the evidence what did they do with the rest of it? Where are the other parts? Where is the hacksaw? Where are the knives? Where are the bloody clothes?

The body may have been dismembered early on after the murder, plenty of time to get rid of the hacksaw [although we don't know how crude or not the technique was, it could have been done with a machete, for example] and clean the other, more explainable implements used for less labor intensive butchering, such as knives etc. The fact that, according to a post that was just made regarding what the family knows, the police have a set time frame for when they should know more suggests police have collected what they believe to be potential forensic evidence of some sort, perhaps they discovered tools during their search which had been cleaned. Most if not all bladed tools have handles of some sort, you can clean the blade to a fare-thee-well and still leave blood evidence beneath the handle.

Really think about it for a moment. You got the rotting torso from a body that was dismembered days before in the apartment, and you think "sheesh" the police are here. Gotta do something about this torso cause it makes the whole place reek....I guess I'll just put it out next to the apartment house and hope no one notices. The trash guys are coming in the morning I am sure it won't be a problem! So you carry it out and put it next to the trash cans, then you go home and relax cause you know the rest of your apartment is spotless and evidence free! Every other darn thing was taken care of well in advance, the tools and clothing were disposed of (or rendered untraceable to you), the dismemberment scene was cleaned up, you just spray a little bit of glade around the room and it is all good.

A lot hinges on whether or not one believes Chief Burns was right when he said he didn't believe the torso was there during the initial search. :waitasec:

 

[Dupree]

Discovery wasn't a concern as much as was being discovered in possession of the remains.


A lot hinges on whether or not one believes Chief Burns was right when he said he didn't believe the torso was there during the initial search. :waitasec:

I'm with you on these two statements.

 

[Sonya610]

IF a person removed all the shelves from a refrigerator would a torso fit?
How long does a body have to be in the GA heat (I don't know how hot it was when her body was found) for it to begin smelling?
One other question.. how long until rigamortis sets in and doesn't that make a body heavier and harder to handle?

Average female torso would fit in a fridge, yeah.

I don't think a torso kept in a fridge for 5 days would reek terribly after only a few hours outside though, especially if left at night. Average fridge temp is 35to 38 degrees, so the body would be chilled to the core and take a while to warm up. If the body smelled horrid it had been that way for a while.

Rigor Mortis is a contraction of the muscles and likely wouldn't set in for a few hours or more depending on temp. The body doesn't get heavier and the stiffness can be "worked out" of the joints manually, morticians do it all the time.

 

[Sonya610]

The fact that, according to a post that was just made regarding what the family knows, the police have a set time frame for when they should know more suggests police have collected what they believe to be potential forensic evidence of some sort, perhaps they discovered tools during their search which had been cleaned. Most if not all bladed tools have handles of some sort, you can clean the blade to a fare-thee-well and still leave blood evidence beneath the handle.

And see that is why I suspect offsight. It has been a full week, if the tools and such were all there the police would likely have gathered them up the FIRST DAY. Keep in mind there has been a tremendous amount of manpower put on this case, police and fbi. Some things take time (like dna processing) but lots of people get other things done much faster (like collecting samples of evidence from various tools and such).

They should have a suspect IF they found all this stuff! They should not be saying (as they did 2 days go) every new name is a POI. All the evidence should mean they are focused on putting together a case to nail their suspect, not running around talking to every new name mentioned.

They really want to solve this quick, it is obvious. The fact they aren't even using the word "suspect" is the main reason I think they don't have much of anything. Also keep in mind hte apartment below hers likely has drainage pipes from the bathtub above in the walls, that right there is a reason to search it.

 

[Sonya610]

Stephen McDaniel&#8217;s aunt, Melody Rucker, called the entire episode &#8220;totally bizarre.&#8221; &#8220;We can&#8217;t believe it,&#8221; Rucker said.

She said her nephew is &#8220;one of the nicest, smartest people that I&#8217;ve ever known. ... We&#8217;re all very, very upset. Of course, we&#8217;re upset about the girl. But it&#8217;s like a dream really, because Stephen is just the straightest -- never been in trouble, never. ... I&#8217;ve never heard him say a cross word to anybody, very mild-mannered.&#8221;

http://www.macon.com/2011/07/08/1624328/macon-police-saying-little-about.html

Finally someone speaks up for Stephen! This McDaniels kid is a skinny 150 lb boy. Giddings was an athlete and appears to be a pretty tall woman (based on pix), she was also obviously very very confident. Unless he bonked her on the head unexpectedly I just don't see him suddenly taking on Giddings and coming out of it without a scratch or a real struggle, she would likely kick his *advertiser censored* or at least put up a darn good fight.

Giddings' father said he had met McDaniel a few times. "I would describe him as very average &#8211; didn't speak a lot, kind of awkward," Bill Giddings said. "He seemed to be a light-weight, kind of a bookworm."

 

[Sonya610]

Significant new clue:

Neighbors would see her walking her one-eyed dog, Butterbean.

Dog? How come all this time the little one eyed dog was never mentioned? Well that solves the question about why she would leave her apartment and not take keys and such. She probably walked the dog around the apartment outside at night all the time! 11 on a Saturday night? Time to take Butterbean out! And where is Butterbean? If she were attacked in the apartment did he take the dog too? Couldn't likely leave the dog alone in the apartment for days, the barking would attract attention. The killer didn't have to bother trying to get into her apartment, he just had to wait until she took Butterbean out.

Police did mentioned a neighbor reporting an odd smell and police discovered "a dead animal" nearby.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/07/lauren-giddings-dead-merc_n_892595.html

 

[Dupree]

Significant new clue:
Dog? How come all this time the little one eyed dog was never mentioned? Well that solves the question about why she would leave her apartment and not take keys and such. She probably walked the dog around the apartment outside at night all the time! 11 on a Saturday night? Time to take Butterbean out! And where is Butterbean?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/07/lauren-giddings-dead-merc_n_892595.html

Hearsay - I read on another site where a friend of hers posted that her dog was in MD with her parents.