GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 #13

[tomkat]

Sounds like you have researched this matter thoroughly! I completely agree, without a warrant to gather the server information it is all hearsay, and eye witness testimony is typically used to settle disputes when no electronic evidence is presented (assuming it goes that far, and it probably won't).

That is basically what we have been saying, it's all hearsay unti there is evidence to the contrary!!!!!!!

 

[southern_comfort]

Okay, I hate that the defendants of McD feel that way, because I know i personally feel the same way whenever i say something in positive for the prosecution. <modsnip>

Hi Georgia,

Do you think McD wrote the post that's causing all this controversy? Hopefully you can give an opinion on that.

 

[Sonya610]

However, a contradiction if you say you do not care about the guilt or innocence of the accused or care about whether he did or did not do it, because his guilt or innocence goes hand in hand with this system (that we presume to care about)

The decision of the court regarding guilt or innocent is supposed to be based on the "preponderance of evidence" presented and of course how well that evidence is spun for the jury. He may very well be guilty, but if they do not have the evidence to prove it he will be found innocent; the court decision will be based on the evidence not on whether or not he committed the crime.

I honestly do not believe they have much more than what they had originally, I believe that is why they filed the murder indictment after the 90 day window and why they are bringing up internet posts and still harping on cadaver dog signals. If they had found the smoking gun 30 days after the arrest warrant was issued they would have filed the indictment far sooner, they were likely hoping the FBI would send back something really good.

I personally believe that once this got started and they had fingered McDaniel as the prime suspect they had to keep pursuing it even though they really didn't have the goods because it would have made them look really really bad politically if they stopped pursuing it or stated they weren't ready to pursue it at this time. The public would be outraged and it could damage careers or cause elections to be lost so they just kept the ball rolling.

All just my opinion of course.

 

[SurfieTX]

I have nothing important to add other than to say it is fascinating watching this unfold. This will be a landmark case here at WS.

 

[southern_comfort]

The decision of the court regarding guilt or innocent is supposed to be based on the "preponderance of evidence" presented and of course how well that evidence is spun for the jury. He may very well be guilty, but if they do not have the evidence to prove it he will be found innocent; the court decision will be based on the evidence not on whether or not he committed the crime.

I honestly do not believe they have much more than what they had originally, I believe that is why they filed the murder indictment after the 90 day window and why they are bringing up internet posts and still harping on cadaver dog signals. If they had found the smoking gun 30 days after the arrest warrant was issued they would have filed the indictment far sooner, they were likely hoping the FBI would send back something really good.

I personally believe that once this got started and they had fingered McDaniel as the prime suspect they had to keep pursuing it even though they really didn't have the goods because it would have made them look really really bad politically if they stopped pursuing it or stated they weren't ready to pursue it at this time. The public would be outraged and it could damage careers or cause elections to be lost so they just kept the ball rolling.

All just my opinion of course.

I tend to agree with you on many of these points. I don't feel sure of anything, but the lack of revelation has me feeling skeptical.

I wanted to point out, though, that "preponderance of the evidence" is actually the usual civil burden of proof (though it's also used in grand jury proceedings). It's much lower than what is required to find a criminal defendant guilty -- which is "beyond a reasonable doubt".

 

[GypsiesTramps&Thieves]

Well, BW, I removed that from my post because I just realized that I can't link to the statement I referenced. :silenced: Although, in the interview he mentions that he ran out when he heard the accident. My point still stands. His apartment windows provided a good vantage point to observe what was taking place outside.

I think you're right Bessie. I think McD was the type of dude that kept a watchful eye on the comings and goings at Barrister's hall and especially on LG out of that big window on the front of his apartment. He said in his SoL posts that he was pretty much a hermit by choice except to go to class.

He had a straight few across the street to see when people were walking home from the law school. I bet he took note of when LG did or didn't come home late at night, when her boyfriend did or didn't visit, if she had friends pop over all the time or not. (Kinda hard to kill someone and dismember their body if you know they have tons of friends dropping by all the time.) And he did seem to insert himself into a lot of situations where LG was concerned...the search of her apartment, when her dog got hit by car, the night of graduation when he and his family showed up at The Fish n Pig. There are probably other instances that we don't even know about; LG might not have even realized what a watchful eye (I speculate) he kept on her. I have no doubt that he entered her apartment on occasion when he knew she wasn't there. JMO

 

[bessie]

FYI for those who weren't around in August, SwissGuy was verified by our admin as an OpChan moderator when he joined us as a member. He's now one of the site's owners/admin.

 

[bessie]

I think you're right Bessie. I think McD was the type of dude that kept a watchful eye on the comings and goings at Barrister's hall and especially on LG out of that big window on the front of his apartment. He said in his SoL posts that he was pretty much a hermit by choice except to go to class.

He had a straight few across the street to see when people were walking home from the law school. I bet he took note of when LG did or didn't come home late at night, when her boyfriend did or didn't visit, if she had friends pop over all the time or not. (Kinda hard to kill someone and dismember their body if you know they have tons of friends dropping by all the time.) And he did seem to insert himself into a lot of situations where LG was concerned...the search of her apartment, when her dog got hit by car, the night of graduation when he and his family showed up at The Fish n Pig. There are probably other instances that we don't even know about; LG might not have even realized what a watchful eye (I speculate) he kept on her. I have no doubt that he entered her apartment on occasion when he knew she wasn't there. JMO

I totally agree, GypsyT&T. I posted the photo of the apartment building to remind us of the close proximity of his apartment to the area where the remains were found. The distance from his side of the building to the fence by the trash cans is no more than 50' or so, the width of six parking spaces. From up above, he had a clear view of everything taking place in that parking lot the morning LG's remains were discovered at approximately 9:00 am, with the exception of the garbage can itself which iirc was on the side of the building.
http://www.macon.com/2011/07/28/1646328/burns-hunt-for-giddings-killer.html

In the interview McD states that morning LE was looking around and asking questions, and at some point they bussed him and the other friends down to the station to take their statements. He also states that he had returned "a little while ago". ( Whether he went inside his apartment or stood around outside is unknown. The interview took place between 1-2 pm.) As he is talking to the reporter, numerous official vehicles can be seen in the background. McD was even able to identify for the reporter that a particular car belonged to one of the detectives. He also reveals that LG's car had been towed earlier. In short, he knows a lot. Yet, we are supposed to believe that he was in total shock when the reporter mentions a body had been found. To quote Tomkat, does he really believe we're that stupid?

http://www.newscentralga.com/news/local/June-30th-Interview-with-Stephen-McDaniel-126361528.html

Also, regarding a discussion from yesterday, I thought it would be of interest to add this comment from LG's sister regarding the trash can.

(from the macon.com link above)

She mentioned how on a Fox News program that featured Lauren last weekend it was brought up that people couldn&#8217;t understand why a killer would put Lauren&#8217;s remains in a trash bin that was right next to the building she lived in and not hidden.


&#8220;We had to almost scream to them (on TV) that it was trash day,&#8221; Wheeler said.

The attached photo shows the scene at 1058 Georgia Ave on June 30, 2011. There are more at the link starting with no. 67.
http://www.macon.com/2011/06/30/1615815/body-found-at-downtown-macon-apartments.html
​

 

[Sonya610]

And he did seem to insert himself into a lot of situations where LG was concerned...the search of her apartment, when her dog got hit by car, the night of graduation when he and his family showed up at The Fish n Pig.

How long were they neighbors? It was for at least a year or two right?

1) The dog getting hit -- I can't imagine any decent person that wouldn't rush over and assist in a situation like that.
2) The search of her apartment -- how do we know the friends didn't knock on his door and ASK HIM if he had seen her in the last few days? If they knew he was a fellow law student it seems like an obvious move -- ask the neighbor that goes to school with her if he has seen her around.
3) The graduation party -- obviously SOMEONE told him about it, he was a recluse that obviously didn't have many friends and he decided to go to the party where he knew a couple of people, it isn't that bizarre.

Three times in 1 or 2 years is hardly a lot, in fact it isn't much at all, especially for a "stalker". Plus Lauren let him take her place to meet Judge Thomas, if he was constantly inserting himself in her life and she was creeped out by it she wouldn't have done him a "favor" that would encourage him.

 

[SouthernKate]

How long were they neighbors? It was for at least a year or two right?

1) The dog getting hit -- I can't imagine any decent person that wouldn't rush over and assist in a situation like that.
2) The search of her apartment -- how do we know the friends didn't knock on his door and ASK HIM if he had seen her in the last few days? If they knew he was a fellow law student it seems like an obvious move -- ask the neighbor that goes to school with her if he has seen her around.
3) The graduation party -- obviously SOMEONE told him about it, he was a recluse that obviously didn't have many friends and he decided to go to the party where he knew a couple of people, it isn't that bizarre.

Three times in 1 or 2 years is hardly a lot, in fact it isn't much at all, especially for a "stalker". Plus Lauren let him take her place to meet Judge Thomas, if he was constantly inserting himself in her life and she was creeped out by it she wouldn't have done him a "favor" that would encourage him.

They were next door neighbors throughout all of law school.

Maybe on the surface, those things can be explained away as not being "creepy" but you must remember - he had a key to her apartment in his possession. He had a pair of her underwear in his possession.

And the graduation party wasn't just a college get together. It was a party thrown at a restaurant by family/friends. Going to that uninvited, especially if you are a "recluse" is very out of the ordinary.

 

[GypsiesTramps&Thieves]

They were next door neighbors throughout all of law school.

Maybe on the surface, those things can be explained away as not being "creepy" but you must remember - he had a key to her apartment in his possession. He had a pair of her underwear in his possession.

And the graduation party wasn't just a college get together. It was a party thrown at a restaurant by family/friends. Going to that uninvited, especially if you are a "recluse" is very out of the ordinary.

Well said, SK. I know that the defense will try to write off the panties as having gotten "mixed up" with his laundry. But a single guy doesn't just unknowingly have/keep his neighbor's undies unless he WANTS to have them. If they did just happen to get mixed up with his stuff, he was probably in hog heaven and had no intention of having an awkward, "um, I think these are your's conversation with her."

 

[Backwoods]

And he did seem to insert himself into a lot of situations where LG was concerned...the search of her apartment, when her dog got hit by car, the night of graduation when he and his family showed up at The Fish n Pig. JMO

<respectfully snipped for focus>

bbm: I didn't know that SM's family was there as well -- I had always thought the report was that it was SM alone. (Not doubting you, just something I didn't know.) If he was with his family, somehow that makes it seem less strange to me. It's a popular eatery -- they could have just chosen that spot for their celebration.

 

[cocomod]

While I am on the fence regarding the latest post, I think that his earlier posts were alarming in the least. His description of spacing out when in police custody, and the other descriptions that match his demeanor after the arrest are very telling to me. The guy defines "creepy" in the dictionary. I do not think that this is "beyond a reasonable doubt", but...

How do you explain away the saw packaging in his apartment short of saying it was planted? What explanation can he offer for the key to her apartment? Still, circumstantial evidence, but building a case against him.

I truly think the reason he "threw" her torso away is simple. It WAS garbage day. He was caught unaware. He didn't think that they would find her missing so quickly, and he was left with this large peice of "evidence" that he needed to get rid of, and the police were all around. He likely hoped that since they had been to the apartment the day before, they may not check the dumpster before the trash was collected.

I am still on the side of the fence of guilt, but I do wonder how much evidence the prosecution has that will show "beyond a reasonable doubt".

 

[Backwoods]

I don't believe we have had this yet, from macon.com:

Update: McDaniel attorneys seek reconsideration of bond


... McDaniel&#8217;s attorneys ask that a hearing be held to allow them to further discuss the bond amount set for McDaniel. They contend that the amount is &#8220;excessive&#8221; and a violation of McDaniel&#8217;s constitutional rights, according to the motion.


&#8220;We&#8217;re just asking the court to take another look at it,&#8221; Floyd Buford, one of McDaniel&#8217;s lawyers, said. &#8220;We certainly can&#8217;t make the $850,000. There&#8217;s just no way. We&#8217;re gonna ask the court to lower that.&#8221; ...

read more at: http://www.macon.com/2012/04/13/198...ek-reconsideration.html#storylink=rss#wgt=rss

I note that The Telegraph still appears to be mum on the internet post controversy.

 

[Backwoods]

While I am on the fence regarding the latest post, I think that his earlier posts were alarming in the least. His description of spacing out when in police custody, and the other descriptions that match his demeanor after the arrest are very telling to me. The guy defines "creepy" in the dictionary. I do not think that this is "beyond a reasonable doubt", but...

How do you explain away the saw packaging in his apartment short of saying it was planted? What explanation can he offer for the key to her apartment? Still, circumstantial evidence, but building a case against him.

I truly think the reason he "threw" her torso away is simple. It WAS garbage day. He was caught unaware. He didn't think that they would find her missing so quickly, and he was left with this large peice of "evidence" that he needed to get rid of, and the police were all around. He likely hoped that since they had been to the apartment the day before, they may not check the dumpster before the trash was collected.

I am still on the side of the fence of guilt, but I do wonder how much evidence the prosecution has that will show "beyond a reasonable doubt".

bbm: This is one thing that has always puzzled me, when looking toward the "guilty" argument. Why would he not have expected Lauren to be noticed as missing -- even sooner than she was? He knew that she was a very social person, describing her in the interview as "very much a people person" -- and likely knew, too, that she had close ties and frequent communication with her family. Yes, I know she was studying for the bar, preparing to move, etc. -- but I believe she was still very much in touch with the people in her life, and it seems to me that SM would have expected as much.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Well even if the MPD and the reporters set McDaniel up how would McDaniel predict it?

The post is fake.

Anyone else notice Hogue sounds just like Mr. Rogers (from Mr. Rogers Neighborhood, a show the elderly folk like me will remember) in that interview? : )

Define "elderly"... (j/k)

 

[bessie]

While I am on the fence regarding the latest post, I think that his earlier posts were alarming in the least. His description of spacing out when in police custody, and the other descriptions that match his demeanor after the arrest are very telling to me. The guy defines "creepy" in the dictionary. I do not think that this is "beyond a reasonable doubt", but...

How do you explain away the saw packaging in his apartment short of saying it was planted? What explanation can he offer for the key to her apartment? Still, circumstantial evidence, but building a case against him.

I truly think the reason he "threw" her torso away is simple. It WAS garbage day. He was caught unaware. He didn't think that they would find her missing so quickly, and he was left with this large peice of "evidence" that he needed to get rid of, and the police were all around. He likely hoped that since they had been to the apartment the day before, they may not check the dumpster before the trash was collected.

I am still on the side of the fence of guilt, but I do wonder how much evidence the prosecution has that will show "beyond a reasonable doubt".

There's no need to explain the saw wrapper because he admitted that he purchased "such a saw" earlier in the year to trim Bradford pear tree limbs. The saw wrapper is circumstantial evidence because there is no way to prove the saw found in the storage closet with LG's DNA is the exact saw that he owned, although it is the same model.

We have yet to hear an explanation for the Lauren's key and underwear found in his possession. We'll have to wait and see. Personally, I believe there is solid, physical evidence that will tie McD to LG's murder. But that's just my opinion. As to why he waited until the police were breathing down his neck, it's possible that he felt confident that he could wait it out until trash day because the remains were safely stored away in the downstairs refrigerator. IMO, he knew that even if LE came around before Thursday, with no sign of foul play, it would be awhile before they inspected that apartment. In the meantime, he would keep an eye out, and at the first sign of police, he'd quickly remove them. JMO

 

[SouthernKate]

bbm: I didn't know that SM's family was there as well -- I had always thought the report was that it was SM alone. (Not doubting you, just something I didn't know.) If he was with his family, somehow that makes it seem less strange to me. It's a popular eatery -- they could have just chosen that spot for their celebration.

I agree - I had also heard it was just McD there, I wasn't aware his family was also there. I'm going to have to go sleuth now!

 

[GypsiesTramps&Thieves]

I agree - I had also heard it was just McD there, I wasn't aware his family was also there. I'm going to have to go sleuth now!

I just thought I read that he and his family went to the restaurant that night too. I may be wrong. Sleuth away. I do remember reading that he showed up alone a few nights before graduation to the party at the bar that Lauren invited him to. Her family reported that she said, "I can't believe he came" or something to that effect. But those were two different nights.

 

[bessie]

I just thought I read that he and his family went to the restaurant that night too. I may be wrong. Sleuth away. I do remember reading that he showed up alone a few nights before graduation to the party at the bar that Lauren invited him to. Her family reported that she said, "I can't believe he came" or something to that effect. But those were two different nights.

I'll let the others sleuth it out, but iirc, both familes were there.