GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 #15 *appeals denied*

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bettiepageturner said:
Wow, was not expecting that autopsy report to be there.. Made me curious about the Zaxby's thing again and whether or not that was able to be used to help determine TOD.

For anyone like me who's not well versed in BAC readings, the .11 doesn't put her anywhere near the range of legal intoxication unless she was nearing 220+ pounds, though if she had been pulled over she might've run into some problems.

Warning: graphic speculation.
I'm not necessarily relieved that there wasn't penetrative sexual assault. Either way Lauren's last moments were absolutely terrifying (based on the defense wounds), but at least if the motive had appeared "routinely" sexual she may have had hope that he would let her live afterwards. But as the report implies, for killers like this, the depraved violence and sadistic control are what make up the sexual act. They've often been unable to perform during the actual interaction with the victim (their escalating desires having prevented standard release for a while now) and I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case here. SM was a fetishist (MOO, I guess?). Fetishists of this variety use objects as a stand-in, and keep them around as reminders. I would bet her clothing that was found in his apartment served its purpose as a fantasy object prior to the act, as well as afterwards assuming he couldn't keep anything else.

I don't know how the condoms play in, and I don't want to speculate very hard on it. I don't even want to google what I'd have to google to read theories or explanations of such a paraphilia. How is it possible that even one person on earth had something miswired, or underwent some sort of trauma, such that what resulted was a linkage between arousal and dismemberment? We saw it again very recently with AS in Jessica's case. Is it a need for absolute control, to have so much power over someone that they're able to make that happen to them? Growing up in a severely controlled environment and seeking to do the same to someone once free from it themselves?

I feel so sick to even type any of that. I can't let go of the idea that if we just understood more we could catch these things and prevent them. Sadly with psychopathy comes manipulation and pathological lying (as well as general apathy about the severity of the act), so we rarely get to hear the whole story firsthand.

Sorry for the long and distracting post.. You guys posting pretrial updates are awesome!
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I feel pretty stupid now, because it had not even registered with me before you mentioned Zaxby's/time of death, etc., that the autopsy report quoted in the analyst's report does not describe the findings of the internal examination. Sheesh!

I feel sure one would have been done! I don't know -- maybe (just one guess) the reason no reference to an internal exam is made is because no findings of that particularly influenced the motivational analysis (I'm calling it that because I think that is the type of analysis it purports to be ... but not entirely sure about that, so JMO).

In the back of my mind, I have always harbored a worry that Lauren may have been held for a while before she was killed. I have never wanted to talk about that too much, remembering her mom's quote from early on that she was told that likely "Lauren never really knew what hit her." I hope that is the case.

I don't know why they may not have been able to establish a time of death looking at stomach contents, etc. I just don't have the knowledge base -- but you are right, it does raise the question of the Zaxby's. Then, too, we think she had that early in the evening and there seems to be a good bit of evidence that Lauren lived at least several more hours.

Another thing that crosses my mind from early in the case is the Bibb Co. coroner's remark that "she couldn't have been dead for very long" or something very similar. I remember that being discussed, folks wondering just what he meant and based on what. The autopsy report says "early decomposition" was present, but, again, I don't know enough to know exactly what that means. Then, throw into the mix the possibility that the remains may have been refrigerated ... and of course the medical examiner who did the autopsy had only a torso to work with. I guess it was a pretty complex case, in many ways.

You mentioned the blood alcohol. I was even a little surprised that they were able to determine it, under the conditions (knowing very little about how all that works).

I don't know how much Lauren weighed exactly, but the chart I looked at, linked below (and make sure to look at the chart for females), seems to be indicating that .11 would count as legally intoxicated for all female weights given.


http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/HealthIssues/1100827422.html


The BAC was a surprise to me, not sure why, really. (You guys know, I hope, that I don't mean anything I'm saying here as a "bad comment" on Lauren, not in any way.) I have wondered at times (remember, I am still a fence-sitter in this case, at this point) whether Lauren might have had someone over that evening -- now I'm thinking: someone she was drinking with, maybe? (I would think the defense might explore that possibility very closely.) Just as likely, I will quickly agree, that she may have had a few drinks alone, while relaxing and studying.

I've decided not to post too much further about the analyst's report until we know whether it is ruled in or out as evidence -- and hopefully we will know that after tomorrow. But I will mention one thing that puzzles me a little: I've always gotten the impression that Lauren, after being out with friends Friday and staying the night over at their place, left alone and went to the country club to sun and swim during the day Saturday, then swung by Zaxby's (presumably on her way home). But the analyst's report, as it appears within the motion, relates that Lauren was "out with friends" on Saturday "and at approximately 6:10 p.m., she left alone to return to her apartment", telling "them" she was going to study for the bar exam. (I assume she then swung by Zaxby's.) If this is how it was, maybe she and some of the friends went together to the country club for the day ...?

Middle Georgia is bracing for a very cold (for us!) week, especially the early part of the week, but I hold out a little hope that one of our WSers will brave the elements and go to the hearing tomorrow. (I can't.) At least hoping for good media coverage!

I like reading your posts, bettiepageturner -- not at all "distracting"!

ETA: Meant to ask you, and forgot: What defense wounds do you mean?
 
bessie said:
I started reading in here earlier, but I had to run off to mod another thread. I did read the motion and Morton's report, and was relieved to see that the rumors apparently are untrue. Not that the reality is much better.

Morton's analysis was less detailed than I expected, and carried no surprises. I've always assumed McD creeped around in LG's apartment prior to that Saturday evening, and I still wonder if he planted a camera inside.

Thanks, Sandstorm, that is an interesting link. Technical, though, like BW said. I'll have to tackle it in the morning.

'Nite :eek:fftobed:
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but that was not a complete autopsy report. IMO, what we saw were excepts, not the full report. Bessie you and I could have written that analysis! I expected much more from Morton, especially given his credentials.

When I read about the evidence on the computer which was just discovered (really?!!!), I wondered if it was something from a hidden camera in her apartment. Maybe video of Lauren in the shower, or getting dressed or undressed. Time will tell, I guess.
 
Backwoods said:
ETA: Meant to ask you, and forgot: What defense wounds do you mean?
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rsbm

Ah, good to know re: BAC. I'll admit I just went with the first google hit which was this far less official looking site http://bloodalcoholcalculator.org/bac-charts/. When I first read that it made me wonder about the talk of drugging her, but surely the report would've mentioned that if it mentioned the BAC in the first place. Unless that's a piece of information they really felt would mess up the jury pool. Though that also presents the horrifying possibility that that fake posting was based in more than one aspect of reality.. like he had written or read about the plans/action more in depth somewhere.. back to the "new" computer evidence curiosity! How much worse could it be than child *advertiser censored* and writing torture stories?!

I'm not sure if defense wounds is the right term. I meant the scratches/abrasions on SM's body that LE found upon initial questioning, which he had attempted to preemptively address by posting about a spider attack or something a few days before. They photographed them and indicated it meant he had been positioned above her (like straddling her laying down, blegh, hence my initial concerns) in an attempt to overpower. I'm not too straight about what will and will not be thrown out in court but I think that might be one of the no-go's since he hadn't been arrested/mirandized/something during or before that questioning..?

I'm in North Georgia and we have a windchill of -10 tomorrow apparently, yee-haw! Wish I could go either way.
 
Backwoods said:
I feel pretty stupid now, because it had not even registered with me before you mentioned Zaxby's/time of death, etc., that the autopsy report quoted in the analyst's report does not describe the findings of the internal examination. Sheesh!

I feel sure one would have been done! I don't know -- maybe (just one guess) the reason no reference to an internal exam is made is because no findings of that particularly influenced the motivational analysis (I'm calling it that because I think that is the type of analysis it purports to be ... but not entirely sure about that, so JMO).

In the back of my mind, I have always harbored a worry that Lauren may have been held for a while before she was killed. I have never wanted to talk about that too much, remembering her mom's quote from early on that she was told that likely "Lauren never really knew what hit her." I hope that is the case.

I don't know why they may not have been able to establish a time of death looking at stomach contents, etc. I just don't have the knowledge base -- but you are right, it does raise the question of the Zaxby's. Then, too, we think she had that early in the evening and there seems to be a good bit of evidence that Lauren lived at least several more hours.

Another thing that crosses my mind from early in the case is the Bibb Co. coroner's remark that "she couldn't have been dead for very long" or something very similar. I remember that being discussed, folks wondering just what he meant and based on what. The autopsy report says "early decomposition" was present, but, again, I don't know enough to know exactly what that means. Then, throw into the mix the possibility that the remains may have been refrigerated ... and of course the medical examiner who did the autopsy had only a torso to work with. I guess it was a pretty complex case, in many ways.

You mentioned the blood alcohol. I was even a little surprised that they were able to determine it, under the conditions (knowing very little about how all that works).

I don't know how much Lauren weighed exactly, but the chart I looked at, linked below (and make sure to look at the chart for females), seems to be indicating that .11 would count as legally intoxicated for all female weights given.


http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/HealthIssues/1100827422.html


The BAC was a surprise to me, not sure why, really. (You guys know, I hope, that I don't mean anything I'm saying here as a "bad comment" on Lauren, not in any way.) I have wondered at times (remember, I am still a fence-sitter in this case, at this point) whether Lauren might have had someone over that evening -- now I'm thinking: someone she was drinking with, maybe? (I would think the defense might explore that possibility very closely.) Just as likely, I will quickly agree, that she may have had a few drinks alone, while relaxing and studying.

I've decided not to post too much further about the analyst's report until we know whether it is ruled in or out as evidence -- and hopefully we will know that after tomorrow. But I will mention one thing that puzzles me a little: I've always gotten the impression that Lauren, after being out with friends Friday and staying the night over at their place, left alone and went to the country club to sun and swim during the day Saturday, then swung by Zaxby's (presumably on her way home). But the analyst's report, as it appears within the motion, relates that Lauren was "out with friends" on Saturday "and at approximately 6:10 p.m., she left alone to return to her apartment", telling "them" she was going to study for the bar exam. (I assume she then swung by Zaxby's.) If this is how it was, maybe she and some of the friends went together to the country club for the day ...?

Middle Georgia is bracing for a very cold (for us!) week, especially the early part of the week, but I hold out a little hope that one of our WSers will brave the elements and go to the hearing tomorrow. (I can't.) At least hoping for good media coverage!

I like reading your posts, bettiepageturner -- not at all "distracting"!

ETA: Meant to ask you, and forgot: What defense wounds do you mean?
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The .11 BAC is not that high, that could be only one glass of wine on some women, so couldn't that BAC be caused by the dreaded Mickey Finn? It is drugs mixed with a touch of alcohol. http://www.uhs.wisc.edu/assault/date-rape-drugs.shtml See Chloral Hydrate
 
After reading the autopsy report I was puzzled by the following:
"Blood testing of a sample of blood revealed 0.112 ( +/- 0.004) grams per ml level of ethyl alcohol."

My questions and online answers:

How long does alcohol remain in a deceased body?

"After alcohol is absorbed into the bloodstream it leaves the body in two different ways. About ten percent leaves through exhalation (breathing), perspiration and urination, and the remaining alcohol is metabolized by the body.

The human body metabolizes alcohol at the rate of .015 of blood alcohol concentration (BAC) every hour regardless of height, weight, sex, or race. (It is the blood alcohol levels that may be affected by these characteristics, not the metabolism of alcohol, as people sometimes believe.)

Thus after a night of relatively light drinking, a person with a BAC of .15 will have no measurable alcohol in the bloodstream after ten hours (.15 divided by .015 = 10).A person with a BAC of .10 will have no alcohol in the system after about six and half hours; a BAC of .08 will be completely diminished in about five and half hours; .05 a little over three hours; and .02 in a little over an hour..."

http://www.alcoholalert.com/blood-alcohol-levels.html


Considering this information, how did Lauren's autopy report show .11 alcohol level which is about 4 to 5 drinks?

"Alcohol is usually consumed in the decay process but may actually be produced and this might cloud any toxicological examinations on the corpse. Make it look as if the victim consumed more alcohol than he actually did..."

How can the ME determine the actual alcohol level that was present prior to the decay process kicking in?

"He can’t with any absolute accuracy, but he does have a tool that will help him make a best guess."

Unfortunately, in Lauren's case, the ME did not have the following advantage for the most accurate alcohol level test:

"He can extract the vitreous humor from the victim’s eye—this is the jelly-like fluid that fills the eyeballs. The alcohol level within this fluid matches that of the blood with about a two-hour delay. That is, the level within the vitreous at any given time reflects the blood alcohol level that was present approximately two hours earlier. And the vitreous is slow to decay so it might be intact even though the corpse is severely decayed. By measuring the vitreous level the ME will know the blood alcohol level two hours prior to death and he can then estimate the blood alcohol level at the time of death."

http://writersforensicsblog.wordpre...l-a-decaying-corpse-actually-produce-alcohol/

And now I wonder:
How can the autopsy alcohol level report be correct?
Was the alcohol produced postmortem?
Was Lauren held captive for a period of time and forced to drink alcohol?
 
I've heard of other cases where there was alcohol detected postmortem, and it was deemed to be part of the decomp process.
We know Lauren consumed alcohol on a fairly consistent basis, and IMO her BAC is not a big deal.

My imagination does go a little wild, with the thought of him sneaking in and out of her apartment, when she was not home. What all was he doing while there?
 
Knox said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that was not a complete autopsy report. IMO, what we saw were excepts, not the full report. Bessie you and I could have written that analysis! I expected much more from Morton, especially given his credentials.

When I read about the evidence on the computer which was just discovered (really?!!!), I wondered if it was something from a hidden camera in her apartment. Maybe video of Lauren in the shower, or getting dressed or undressed. Time will tell, I guess.
Click to expand...

All I can think, Knox, is that the report was a complete "overview" report of some kind, but that maybe there were supplements to it that weren't replicated. What puzzles me (since bettiepageturner made me think about it) is that there is no reference to the examination of the internal organs, only seems to speak of the external exam.
 
bettiepageturner said:
rsbm

Ah, good to know re: BAC. I'll admit I just went with the first google hit which was this far less official looking site http://bloodalcoholcalculator.org/bac-charts/. When I first read that it made me wonder about the talk of drugging her, but surely the report would've mentioned that if it mentioned the BAC in the first place. Unless that's a piece of information they really felt would mess up the jury pool. Though that also presents the horrifying possibility that that fake posting was based in more than one aspect of reality.. like he had written or read about the plans/action more in depth somewhere.. back to the "new" computer evidence curiosity! How much worse could it be than child *advertiser censored* and writing torture stories?!

I'm not sure if defense wounds is the right term. I meant the scratches/abrasions on SM's body that LE found upon initial questioning, which he had attempted to preemptively address by posting about a spider attack or something a few days before. They photographed them and indicated it meant he had been positioned above her (like straddling her laying down, blegh, hence my initial concerns) in an attempt to overpower. I'm not too straight about what will and will not be thrown out in court but I think that might be one of the no-go's since he hadn't been arrested/mirandized/something during or before that questioning..?

I'm in North Georgia and we have a windchill of -10 tomorrow apparently, yee-haw! Wish I could go either way.
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bbm: Ah, OK -- I thought you meant defense wounds on Lauren.

Just a bit ago, it was 50-something degrees outside -- really hard to believe that it will plummet to sub-freezing in just a very few hours. I think we're expecting a wind chill of about -3 here.

Somehow I was thinking the scratches are "in" for the trial, but I may be mistaken.
 
Knox said:
I've heard of other cases where there was alcohol detected postmortem, and it was deemed to be part of the decomp process.
We know Lauren consumed alcohol on a fairly consistent basis, and IMO her BAC is not a big deal.

My imagination does go a little wild, with the thought of him sneaking in and out of her apartment, when she was not home. What all was he doing while there?
Click to expand...

I thought I vaguely remembered that decomp could raise the BAC (though apparently it can go either way) -- glad you and Sandstorm spoke up with links and other cases.

Possibly the medical examiner or other expert might testify on that subject.
 
Hey all, just heard on the 13WMAZ early news that the station will livestream the pretrial hearing today. I'm not sure what time it starts -- last one started around 9 or 9:30 (ET) I think. Here's the home page -- they should put up a link for watching when time gets near:

www.13wmaz.com

I'm not sure if I will get to watch -- I will try to, but I have a whole lot of "super cold weather" chores to tend to, plus have not had ANY sleep because of worrying about those things I need to do AND about my daughter, who was on the road returning from a two-week trip to Texas yesterday and through the night. (They have reached Georgia -- so, getting close!!) I would appreciate it if some of you might say a little prayer for me today, that I can get all I need to get done done, and one for those of my dogs who live outside. (Their houses are done up "good" for temps down into the 20s, but with what we are facing with wind chill and all the next couple of days, I am scrambling to give them some additional protection and warmth.)

ETA: Daughter is home safely! (Now she has to set off for work, poor kid!)
 
Backwoods said:
Chloral hydrate would have its own effects, of course, but I don't think it would raise the BAC.
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Yes but the drug would be mixed with alcohol. That could raise the BAC. Oh well, I also remember reading LG was at the pool. Was that before she went thru zaxbys or the day before? If it was the day, one would probably have a drink at the pool, and on a female easy to get a .11 BAC from that. :)
 
Just taking a quick break from the outside chores (brrrr!) and checking in here -- and I see: no sign of a live feed of the hearing from 13WMAZ -- yet.

But I found this at macon.com that explains somewhat what's going on:

Hearing in McDaniel murder case delayed till late Monday morning

A court hearing in the Stephen McDaniel murder case won’t begin until at least 11 a.m. Monday. ...
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read more at: http://www.macon.com/2014/01/06/2865096/hearing-in-mcdaniel-murder-case.html

So y'all keep a lookout!

I wonder if the delay was caused somehow by weather concerns? (This little super-cold snap caught a lot of us down here off-guard, I think.)

 
Tweeted 4 minutes ago: Court still in recess. State expected to speak of "new evidence" gleaned from McD's computer

https://twitter.com/middlegeorgia/status/420259175202299904

Thanks for the links, BW. I have the live feed up. As time allows, once the hearing starts up again, I'll monitor and post updates here.

OT, it's fuh-reeeez-ing outside! I ran around like a crazy woman pulling in plants and setting up new snuggly spots in the garage for our outdoor kitties. I tried to lure them inside, but they're a bit feral and skiddish.


ETA: Phooey!

"Judge Howard Simms has ordered live-streaming of the proceedings halted. He says some conversations should not have been broadcast."

https://twitter.com/middlegeorgia/status/420260730693103616


Freyman is testifying about message-board posts allegedly made by Stephen McDaniel under the moniker "SoL" on the OperatorChan website.

https://twitter.com/middlegeorgia/status/420261917207195648

(David Freyman is one of the FBI computer analyst.)
 
GeorgiaSunshine said:
Yes but the drug would be mixed with alcohol. That could raise the BAC. Oh well, I also remember reading LG was at the pool. Was that before she went thru zaxbys or the day before? If it was the day, one would probably have a drink at the pool, and on a female easy to get a .11 BAC from that. :)
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She spent time at the pool on Saturday, but she also had been out with friends Friday night.
 
Knox said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that was not a complete autopsy report. IMO, what we saw were excepts, not the full report.
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No, not a full narrative, IMO, either. Was it BW who said supplemental reports were omitted? Agreed, and possibly more.

Knox said:
Bessie you and I could have written that analysis! I expected much more from Morton, especially given his credentials.
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I didn't want to say it, but yeah...that report is the short version compared to the detailed analyses recorded throughout these threads. :)

Knox said:
When I read about the evidence on the computer which was just discovered (really?!!!), I wondered if it was something from a hidden camera in her apartment. Maybe video of Lauren in the shower, or getting dressed or undressed. Time will tell, I guess.
Click to expand...
We're on the same page again, Knox.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The "SoL" postings are under scrutiny because the state may contend the sometimes-graphic/violent posts speak to McDaniel's mindset."

https://twitter.com/middlegeorgia/status/420265143696494592
 
Latest tweet says the state is linking "cyber trails" by matching ip used in 2010 online discussion with the ip of the "disturbing posts". Appear "consistent".
https://twitter.com/middlegeorgia/status/420268554768756736

Paraphrasing the tweets:

The 2010 discussions are the ones with the guy who participated in the mock trial. If McD's IP during those discussions matches the IP of the "disturbing posts" it's significant because that guy can testify that he actually met the person he knew online as SoL, and SoL is in fact McDaniel.
https://twitter.com/middlegeorgia/status/420269796664434688

Hogue is questioning Freyman now.

Hogue asked if IP could be manipulated by a site admin. Freyman says, "it's possible."
https://twitter.com/middlegeorgia/status/420271690329780224

Macon.com tweeted link to their Aug 2011 story about "SoL".
http://www.macon.com/2011/08/26/1678356/mcdaniel-posts-describe-torture.html

Another FBI analyst testifies. Hogue asks him if McD visited Opchan. Daniel says yes, and he visited a game site as "Son of Liberty.
https://twitter.com/middlegeorgia/status/420275045923954688
(I wasn't sure if that one was really him on the game site. Now we know.)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Simms rules evidence of "SoL" material is admissible. He reserves the right to rule on admissibility and authenticity of specific posts."
https://twitter.com/middlegeorgia/status/420276019606478849

State was discussing search queries on the laptop. Now lawyers on both sides conferring with Simms.

"Before conference, prosecutor Dorothy Hull spoke of a search query found on McDaniel computer that was worded 'molest ... sleeping girl.'"
https://twitter.com/middlegeorgia/status/420277178178105344

Court adjourned.
 
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