GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #10

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I still can't get over this statement made by LH:

"Would I bring him back? No. To bring him back into this broken world would be selfish."

Personally, those words right there removed any and all doubt in my mind that this was premeditated and LH was involved. What mother says this? What mother wouldn't do anything in the universe (including trading places) to have their child back?! Defies all logic. IMO LH managed to somehow convince herself that baby Cooper would be better off dead and went along with the plan to accomplish that. The whole thing is just too sick for words.

WHY is this woman not in jail where she belongs? I can only have patience and wait on LE to get their ducks in a row and put this woman in a lovely orange jumpsuit alongside her dear hubby.

Although the statement seems strange to many of us, it isn't all that unusual for a religious person who believes when you die you go to a better place and that you have been called there by God.
 
Setting aside all the evidence that points to this being an intentional act, the current charges do not require there to have been any intent. The charges are based on gross criminal negligence and do not require malice or premeditation (though many of us think those were present). Try to think of it this way:

-- If you fail to properly set the gears/parking brakes of your vehicle and it rolls down a hill and crashes into an elderly person and kills him or her, should the negligence be excused because you cry a lot about it?
-- If you fail to lock gate of the fence enclosing your empty swimming pool and a neighbor's kid falls in and breaks his or her neck should you be let off the hook because you feel real bad?
-- If you burn trash in your backyard and fail to put the fire out properly and it catches the neighbors' house on fire and they all die of smoke inhalation should you get nothing worse than a scolding because you would give anything for a 'do-over'?

Or do you believe that you should only get a 'bye' on causing a death by negligence if the deceased is your own flesh and blood?

P.S. The above cited examples depending on the jurisdiction could in fact be considered lesser acts of negligence than causing 'excessive mental and/or physical suffering to a child' by forgetting him in a hot car and letting him roast to death. IMO.

It's true, no intent to kill or harm is necessary. I posted this a bit ago in the poll thread:

This is what they would need to find in order to find him guilty of felony murder:

1. Ross Harris knew the likely consequences of forgetting or leaving Cooper in a hot car for hours. He had a reasonable "foresight" of the probable injuries of being left in a hot car.
2. He deliberately or recklessly disregarded the consequences of forgetting Cooper or was neglectfully indifferent to Cooper's rights and safety (did not care).
3. As a result of Ross Harris' reckless disregard of the consequences of leaving Cooper in a hot car, or as a result of his neglectful indifference to the rights and safety of Cooper, Cooper died.
4. Cooper died in a cruel and/or excessively painful manner.

It is unnecessary to find that a) Ross intended to kill Cooper. b) Ross intended to cause serious bodily harm to Cooper.

Can they find that it was a pure accident? Well, that depends on what you mean by accident. Is it an accident if a person forgets their children in car because they decided to get super high? They know it is dangerous. They should be more vigilant, but they are reckless or indifferent about the safety of their children, because their own needs, their own desires to go get wasted are more important?

Although that is not the situation here, that is a situation that could result in the same charges and it is one in which the actual death or the harm resulting from being baked in a hot car, was not intentional.

Going off the list above, here's how I think the charges could be proved:

1. Ross had recently been made very aware of hot car deaths involving children, via reading about the Georgia safe kids in cars program and by doing independent research of how long it would take a living being to die in a hot car. He was well aware of the danger to a child resulting in such an event.
2. Despite such knowledge and awareness of what could happen, Ross he didn't take reasonable precautions to prevent from forgetting Cooper, such as putting belongings he needed to take, in the back seat, attaching a note to his dash, having his wife call or text him after arrival at work, etc.
- Or, despite such knowledge and awareness of what could happen, he was quite unconcerned about the possibility of Cooper dying in a hot car, so he forget his kid in the 30 seconds it took to turn left or right out of the Chik-fil-A parking lot, and in the 2 to 3 minute drive to work, and in the 30 seconds he sat in his car before exiting, leaving Cooper behind.
- Or, despite such knowledge and awareness of what could happen, he just didn't care about what happened to Cooper and was more concerned about his own affairs, such as working, sexting, going to movie, so he just left him there, possibly knowing he left him or leaving without knowing when all the facts - 30 seconds after leaving the parking lot of Chik-fil-A, he turned the wrong direction, 3 minutes in a small car with an awake Cooper, he doesn't realize he needs to drop him off, 30 seconds parked in the lot, he doesn't realize Cooper is there, despite the fact that the car seat is jammed up against the side of his face, practically - show that he should have known.
3. Cooper died because his dad, despite clearly knowing what could happen to Cooper in a hot car:
a) took no reasonable precautions to stop from forgetting him;
b) didn't care what happened to Cooper and was narcissistically immersed in his own affairs or needs and desires instead of doing what he needed to keep Cooper safe, so he forget him;
c) knew Cooper was in the car but cared more about his own needs than Cooper's life or safety;
d) reasonably should have known Cooper was in the car, and should not have forgotten him under the circumstances, because a halfway decent parent would not have forgotten under those same circumstances.
4. Cooper died horribly with great suffering as shown by the frantic injuries to his head and face and his open eyes and protruding tongue.

I think that practically, the jury would have to find much more than a pure accident that could happen to many people - you know, a lot on the mind, little sleep, uncharacteristically quiet/asleep child during the drive, constant phone calls or distractions during the drive, a difference in routine that day, etc.

But they don't have to go all the way to finding he intended to murder Cooper or even that he intended to cause him any harm.
 
How could he be more visible? He got there after and left before the rest of the workforce. If he is near the back of the lot, not many people to see Cooper in those hours.

Exactly He went in a little late, left a little early, and I'm thinking that maybe he was going to dispose of Cooper on the way to the movies but was over come by the odor and had to pull over. Didn't he say he would be a little late to the movie? I'm getting confused. I wonder if he did want to dispose of him and then go to the theater, turn off phone so he doesn't get the call from LH that he is not at DC. That would give him two more hours. idk I would love to hear from the DC workers about her demeanor.
 
We don't know for a fact he was actually strapped into the car seat. He was on the pavement when police arrived at the scene.

JMO
We don't, but the medical examiner does.
moo
 
I think testimony was that the father was aware of the specific model of the car seat and proper installation and yet the straps were in the wrong position and the child was too tall for it. So it really doesn't matter to me which model it was, because the father intentionally violated the state statute for child restraints.

JMO


OT but to be honest, So many kids are not secured at all, So this is not the end of the world for me as far as car seat usage goes.. HOWEVER in this case I am not applauding him because I think he really did this.
 
BBM: while you state the term, "We", in full truth, "they" as in those investigating this death, DO know if Cooper was strapped in. The development of livor mortis will show the pressure points & blood pooling. Given that the child was described by a witness as " resembling a seated child" (paraphrasing) while on the pavement/ground, Cooper was well into the death process.
It is my opinion that testimony will show he was secured in the car seat & that testimony will be graphic, inclusive of both physical signs on the decedent & the purge that probably surprised JRH as he removed Cooper's body.

Yep, THESE are the types of cases that effect all MEs but we can't really show that to the "world" :gaah:

LE don't know for a fact whether Cooper was actually strapped in because he wasn't strapped in when they arrived on the scene. I don't recall any detective testifying they witnessed Cooper actually secured in the car seat.

My reference to "we" is as in "we, the people" which is who the prosecutor represents.

JMO
 
How could he be more visible? He got there after and left before the rest of the workforce. If he is near the back of the lot, not many people to see Cooper in those hours.

I was making the point that he may have very well parked forward and not backwards in the space. Most of the posters here keep insisting he backed up into the space, arguing that this shows he was trying to shield Cooper from view. I'm pointing out that based on the detective's wording, the info on which direction he parked in the space is unclear at the moment (although LE obviously knows from the video).
 
The scratches & abrasions were not post mortem from the pavement. Those physical signs were part of the data utilized by the ME in presenting the preliminary MOD as homicide. There is a huge visual difference in pre-mortem and post mortem injuries, especially on the face. More than likely they represent some of the desperate actions taken by this child during his gradual death.:tantrum:

Preach it Joypath!!!!!!
 
Exactly He went in a little late, left a little early, and I'm thinking that maybe he was going to dispose of Cooper on the way to the movies but was over come by the odor and had to pull over. Didn't he say he would be a little late to the movie? I'm getting confused. I wonder if he did want to dispose of him and then go to the theater, turn off phone so he doesn't get the call from LH that he is not at DC. That would give him two more hours. idk I would love to hear from the DC workers about her demeanor.

What was he going to say happened to him?
 
LE don't know for a fact whether Cooper was actually strapped in because he wasn't strapped in when they arrived on the scene. I don't recall any detective testifying they witnessed Cooper actually secured in the car seat.

My reference to "we" is as in "we, the people" which is who the prosecutor represents.

JMO

IIRC Cooper's legs were in the position (stiff from rigor mortis) of being in the carseat from witnesses. jmo
 
IIRC Cooper's legs were in the position (stiff from rigor mortis) of being in the carseat from witnesses. jmo

That is not proof he was strapped into the car seat. He may have been seated in the seat and died in the seat but I have not seen any proof that he was "strapped" into the seat.

JMO
 
That is not proof he was strapped into the car seat. He may have been seated in the seat and died in the seat but I have not seen any proof that he was "strapped" into the seat.

JMO

He was strapped in. If not he would have gotten out. He would have been fighting and got himself out or would not have been in the car seat when found dead with scratches. Those scratches are him hurting himself out of fear and frustration from being strapped in.
 
He was strapped in. If not he would have gotten out. He would have been fighting and got himself out or would not have been in the car seat when found dead with scratches. Those scratches are him hurting himself out of fear and frustration from being strapped in.

Yes. I agree.

And didn't LE say the straps were set to the shortest setting?
Why would that matter if he weren't strapped in.

He was definitely strapped in.

JMO

ETA: sorry. I was catching up "backwards" and just saw the posts about the thread for car seat discussion.
 
He was strapped in. If not he would have gotten out. He would have been fighting and got himself out or would not have been in the car seat when found dead with scratches. Those scratches are him hurting himself out of fear and frustration from being strapped in.

Cops did not "find" the child in the car seat. That is a fact established in testimony at the hearing.

I'm not sure why you believe he could have gotten out of that seat on his own. His legs were contorted because it was in the rear-facing position. No where for his legs to go so he had to bend them just as the boy does in the photo upthread. I think he was unconscious within minutes of being in that hot car.

JMO
 
la_cavalière;10715971 said:
Although the statement seems strange to many of us, it isn't all that unusual for a religious person who believes when you die you go to a better place and that you have been called there by God.

And then go on to say you would have more children?
 
If he were not strapped in he would have been able to move around inside the car. I would expect the windows to have mucus and tear finger smudges from him trying to get out,
I don't believe he would just sit there still.
At any rate the autopsy report will show that the livor mortis was consistent with Cooper being strapped "tightly" in the seat, just as JRH said. He didn't strap him tight for safety he did it so Cooper couldn't get out of the seat while the heat killed him.
moo
 
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