GA GA - Wayne Williams - Atlanta Child Murders & more - 1979-1981

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I love the series, Mindhunters! Season two was done very well about these Atlanta murders with foreshadowing BTK for a future season. I didn't know about these murdered children until watch the 2nd season last week.
 
So sad the way these child murders were handled from the get go. By local LE,and political leaders. Like their lives didn't matter. I do believe they have the right person in prison. He was on the bridge, the fibers,and dog hairs connect him. The way he disparaged the kids,and victim blamed is shocking. I can't believe there are people who believe him to be innocent,and don't call him out on that. How dare he speak so callously about children who were murdered. I'm shocked that there are people willing to gloss over that. Then he has the gall to bring God's name into this as if he's holier than thou.
GRRRRR.
MOO
 
ManicMuggle83 said:
I love the series, Mindhunters! Season two was done very well about these Atlanta murders with foreshadowing BTK for a future season. I didn't know about these murdered children until watch the 2nd season last week.
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It was reveting,but if you're looking for the real truth you won't find it in this series. Don't know why they throw in the extra drama crap, it's not as if there isn't enough horrific things happening. It really takes away from the victims,and the cases. I am very disappointed. SMH.
 
Falcon500 said:
The fact that the Atlanta Child murders are still being debated after forty years and that the media comes running to Wayne William’s beck and call is ridiculous.

The people in Atlanta who are convinced that the KKK was responsible are delusional and can’t accept the fact that it wasn’t a white man.

The biggest indicator that the right man is in prison is that the child murders stopped the day that Williams was arrested.
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True, The case has become an icon for the "woke" community for years. The reality is that the only racism involved in the case is the racism of the black and guilty white liberal community in desperately trying to make the crimes about race. Mindhunters followed the typical hollywood path pandered to this. (one example , when you see them searching Williams home the implication was that the green carpet from which they got the fiber samples was a small piece, whereas in reality it was in the whole house. This is ironic since the actual FBI agents never had any doubt about Williams responsibility for most of the child Killings. (by the way, one of the red herring that the "Wayne didnt do it" crowd is to argue that he didnt commit all the murders,. Well in actuality no one said he did. For example no one really believes that he killed the two girls in the case, however this crows have elevated special pleading to an art form.
 
ddav said:
True, The case has become an icon for the "woke" community for years. The reality is that the only racism involved in the case is the racism of the black and guilty white liberal community in desperately trying to make the crimes about race. Mindhunters followed the typical hollywood path pandered to this. (one example , when you see them searching Williams home the implication was that the green carpet from which they got the fiber samples was a small piece, whereas in reality it was in the whole house. This is ironic since the actual FBI agents never had any doubt about Williams responsibility for most of the child Killings. (by the way, one of the red herring that the "Wayne didnt do it" crowd is to argue that he didnt commit all the murders,. Well in actuality no one said he did. For example no one really believes that he killed the two girls in the case, however this crows have elevated special pleading to an art form.
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The idea that the “white liberal community/ woke community” believe that Williams is some kind of a martyr and the real killer was a KKK type white guy is pretty much nonsense. This is based on seeing the world through highly politicized lens. While no doubt some people believe that, there are probably people who believe Bigfoot did it. So what.

I followed the case at the time it was going on; a time that was plenty politically polarized but issues were different. Crime was the hot-button issue. The primary political “spin” on the case was the concern raised by the Afro-American and Liberal communities that that while crime reporting often portrayed white people as victims and Afro-Americans as the perpetrators there was little coverage given to the extent that Afro-Americans were victims of Crime. The Atlanta Child killings gave the media a chance atone for this by bending over backwards to give it full exposure.

While the general perception was that Williams was Guilty of all or most of the murders, there was a segment of the “ Left” that tended to believed that the authorities just wanted the case to go away without really settling the issue of whether or not Williams had done all or most of the murders. If there was any prevailing belief that some KKK type group was involved, it was left unstated. What was not left unstated was the distrust of government in general and Southern Law Enforcement in particular.

Actually, I can’t find much evidence of a “Wayne didn’t do it ‘crowd’” existing today. There is certainly interest in the case today. Most of the murders are, in fact, unsolved and it is not unreasonable to want them solved and all of the doubts and uncertainties put to rest. I personally believe Wayne did most of them and those he didn’t do were the expected random background murders that have and will always occur. I would to see the cases subjected to the forensic tools that were not available at the time. You never know what will turn up.
 
kemo said:
The idea that the “white liberal community/ woke community” believe that Williams is some kind of a martyr and the real killer was a KKK type white guy is pretty much nonsense. This is based on seeing the world through highly politicized lens. While no doubt some people believe that, there are probably people who believe Bigfoot did it. So what.

I followed the case at the time it was going on; a time that was plenty politically polarized but issues were different. Crime was the hot-button issue. The primary political “spin” on the case was the concern raised by the Afro-American and Liberal communities that that while crime reporting often portrayed white people as victims and Afro-Americans as the perpetrators there was little coverage given to the extent that Afro-Americans were victims of Crime. The Atlanta Child killings gave the media a chance atone for this by bending over backwards to give it full exposure.

While the general perception was that Williams was Guilty of all or most of the murders, there was a segment of the “ Left” that tended to believed that the authorities just wanted the case to go away without really settling the issue of whether or not Williams had done all or most of the murders. If there was any prevailing belief that some KKK type group was involved, it was left unstated. What was not left unstated was the distrust of government in general and Southern Law Enforcement in particular.

Actually, I can’t find much evidence of a “Wayne didn’t do it ‘crowd’” existing today. There is certainly interest in the case today. Most of the murders are, in fact, unsolved and it is not unreasonable to want them solved and all of the doubts and uncertainties put to rest. I personally believe Wayne did most of them and those he didn’t do were the expected random background murders that have and will always occur. I would to see the cases subjected to the forensic tools that were not available at the time. You never know what will turn up.
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I respect your arguments but I would point out that the premise that crime investigation at the time was racially biased was greatly exaggerated. I would cite the example of Dean Corll. Young white males were vanishing from the streets of Houston for a couple of years in numbers that should have raised suspicion but no real attention was given the case until Corll turned up dead. Even after the murders the police seemed anxious to close the case and made no concerted effort to finds other victims even though most people believe the were others to be found. By contrast the Atlanta child murders began receiving media attention quite early on in the process and the investigation received a huge amount of federal money and attention. Granted, bodies began turning up in Atlanta, but the Massive increase in missing boys in Houston should certainly have raised suspicions sooner than it did. My point is that the Imposition of race politics had no place in the investigation, but it has been the main driving factor in the case ever since. It reminds me of a recent podcast about the murders committed
by Maury Travis. Travis and all his victims were black yet the show spent most of the opening minutes with a Discussion of racism in his hometown of Ferguson. Similarly if a Killer is homosexual , we are always lectured about societal homophobia and the role this may have played in the killings. The reality the acts of these killers are acts of evil that are their own responsibility. Using the crimes as theatrical props for a political drama is a disgrace and a trivializing of the tragedy of human beings committing murder.
 
ddav said:
I respect your arguments but I would point out that the premise that crime investigation at the time was racially biased was greatly exaggerated. I would cite the example of Dean Corll. Young white males were vanishing from the streets of Houston for a couple of years in numbers that should have raised suspicion but no real attention was given the case until Corll turned up dead. Even after the murders the police seemed anxious to close the case and made no concerted effort to finds other victims even though most people believe the were others to be found. By contrast the Atlanta child murders began receiving media attention quite early on in the process and the investigation received a huge amount of federal money and attention. Granted, bodies began turning up in Atlanta, but the Massive increase in missing boys in Houston should certainly have raised suspicions sooner than it did. My point is that the Imposition of race politics had no place in the investigation, but it has been the main driving factor in the case ever since. It reminds me of a recent podcast about the murders committed
by Maury Travis. Travis and all his victims were black yet the show spent most of the opening minutes with a Discussion of racism in his hometown of Ferguson. Similarly if a Killer is homosexual , we are always lectured about societal homophobia and the role this may have played in the killings. The reality the acts of these killers are acts of evil that are their own responsibility. Using the crimes as theatrical props for a political drama is a disgrace and a trivializing of the tragedy of human beings committing murder.
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You are completely right about the Dean Corll murders. There was much more of a dislike/distrust/fear of young males; particulate those who were not “well behaved” or of low social class. The same applied to other groups that now would be called “ marginalized”: Afro-Americans, gays, sex workers, non-conformist subcultures and low income people in general. Sure, if a member of one of these groups were to kill another, the police would work the case and make the arrest if they could but they knew there would be no media coverage, no accolades and no newspaper editorials demanding action. If an “innocent” person from a “ good “ family from a “ nice” neighborhood were to be a victim, the response would be very different. Things have changed; somewhat.

If Law Enforcement is more receptive to the concerns of the Afro-American or any of the other communities today, it is because of the fuss that was made in the past. A lot of protests and disruptive actions prompted by Afro-American and other communities against police and local government occurred. These were often dismissed as the demands for special treatment yet then end result was that local governments and law enforcement have begun paying attention to the needs of these communities and the media has as well.

The pressure to further investigate the Atlanta Child Murders is not driven by the belief that he is innocent and some redneck KKK’er did it but rather that the issue was never properly settled. (How would you feel if your child was murdered and the lead detective told you “we think we know who did it and he is doing life without for another murder so we aren’t wasting anymore money on this case”?). If, as I suspect, further forensic investigation develops strong evidence that Williams was good for additional murders, it will will be money well spent because it will dispel much of the distrust that has hung over this case.
 
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Luckyzmom said:
Do you like it so far ?
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I've found it interesting. I was overseas when this all happened so I don't think I ever knew the whole story. This series, at this point anyway, seems all about proving Wayne Williams innocent, at least of the two men he's convicted of killing. If the information they've put out there is true then there certainly are questions about his conviction imo. But we'll see. He's one cocky sob.
 
Steft50 said:
Is anyone watching the HBO series "Atlanta's Missing and Murdered: The Lost Children"?
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I watched it! I was excited to hear it was coming out on HBO. It was a great documentary. The thing is it left more questions for me. IMO I hope Netflix picks this up and really digs into this more. I hated that they let WW speak at the public forum. Ughhhh he is trying to manipulate the families. Imoo I would have liked to learn a little more about the victims clothing. I watched ID channel doc on these murders and they mentioned a few times the boys were found with different clothes on then they went missing in. Not all. And Were they sexually assaulted? We know they were suffocated. Imo Hopefully opening up the cases will bring some sort of justice to these families. Do I think WW killed these boys, yes but not all of them. IMO the FBI profiler was spot on with him. From 1987: Atlanta child murders: Williams 'very like' FBI profile

Were The Atlanta Child Murders From 'Mindhunter' The Work Of A Serial Killer Or The KKK?
 
Hi,

I am really hoping someone can help me get more information. I am covering the Atlanta Child Murders on my site, and for the life of me, I cannot find anything to do with the boys' autopsies. Specifically, I am looking into the link to Timmy Hill, witnesses claim he was abused by two known paedophiles before he disappeared and abused again the day of his disappearance. However, nowhere can I find if this claim was substantiated in his autopsy report, or anywhere, but with my luck, I am looking in the wrong places.

The majority of the boys were found with just underwear on, but again it's not known if they were abused before death, but there is a strong suggestion this is the case.

I just want to be as factual as possible and it's one of the many questions I have on the case.

There's also the fingerprints that were found on one body, unknown pubic hairs, dog hairs on the others and whilst the dog hairs are said to be linked to Wayne Williams, it's not been confirmed.

Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this.

I won't lie, I am so frustrated by this case, I have so many questions and no idea where to find answers. I'm including more questions (and statements that have thrown me) below:

  1. Were the fingerprints found on Curtis' body ever reexamined? If not, why? Is this because the authorities are so convinced it was Wayne Williams?
  2. What did Timmy Hill say to his teacher during those two phone calls, if he didn't say anything how did she know it was him?
  3. If Timmy was raped in the Salvation Army, how could he then go wash a dog straight after? Did anyone clean him up? Take him for medical attention given the state he was reported to have been in?
  4. Were XX and XX ever arrested for sexual abuse and rape of minors? Was XX ever arrested for his involvement?
  5. Why was it not confirmed whether or not any of the boys were sexually abused?
  6. There were pubic hairs found on one of the other victims, were these ever re-examined?
  7. A lot of the eye witness accounts seem to be all over the place, and without knowing the state of decomposition of the bodies of the boys' it's not known if these accounts match the timeline of events.
  8. Was there a composite sketch of the man Margaret Jackson seen on the day Patrick's body was found?
  9. Was the note to XX from the Reverend ever substantiated as a legitimate note? Or was XX stating this to get time shaved off?
  10. A few articles say it was Patrick's mother that received the call from the woman stating she had him, but Joseph's mother was in jail.
  11. Was the link to the gay entertainer's executions ever linked to the murders of these young boys?
  12. Can anyone link me to those murders as I'd like to find out if anyone was arrested? I saw someone was arrested in the 1990s but the way the article is written it's about murders that took place in the 90s' so it doesn't look as though it's the same thing.
 
I didn’t know that WW was a self/made radio jockey only AFTER doing freelance work at the tv station in Atlanta? Is it possible that he was doing these crimes so that he could be the one to report them, for popularity, to be seen? Akin to Munchausen by proxy, or the Fire fighter who starts the fire so he can put them out and be the hero. Very interesting... MOO
 
AgeofAquaruis said:
So sad the way these child murders were handled from the get go. By local LE,and political leaders. Like their lives didn't matter. I do believe they have the right person in prison. He was on the bridge, the fibers,and dog hairs connect him. The way he disparaged the kids,and victim blamed is shocking. I can't believe there are people who believe him to be innocent,and don't call him out on that. How dare he speak so callously about children who were murdered. I'm shocked that there are people willing to gloss over that. Then he has the gall to bring God's name into this as if he's holier than thou.
GRRRRR.
MOO
Click to expand...
ALL OF THIS
 
Williams is interesting from a behavioral perspective, though he never raped any of his victims, there was an underlying sexual component to his crimes.

He stated publicly that he didnt like young impoverished black males, he compensated for basically being a complete (and I mean complete) failure by an almost genocidal attitude toward other , weaker black males, he enjoyed the power over life and death .

He also seemed to enjoy toying with police.

Despite all that though Williams is almost certainly responsible for some of the killings, many experts, feel he most likely wasn't responsible for all of them, even worse theres rumblings that LE in Atlanta knew this, but little ever came of it , "It wasnt a single offender and the truth isn't pleasant" -John Douglas
 
Then and Now...
[URL='https://search.aol.com/aol/image;_ylt=A0geKLu5VlNglNEA1aVpCWVH;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzIEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Nj?q=Wayne+Williams+photo&ei=UTF-8&fr=webmail-searchbox&th=96.8&tw=163.8&imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fstraightfromthea.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F06%2FWayne-Williams1.jpg&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fstraightfromthea.com%2F2010%2F06%2F11%2Fsoledad-obrien-revisits-the-atlanta-child-murder-case-video%2Fwayne-williams-2%2F&size=57KB&name=Wayne+Williams+-+Straight+From+The+A+%5BSFTA%5D+%E2%80%93+Atlanta+...&oid=5&h=473&w=800&turl=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.ni5tGdR1cmfMGFhFYNW4KQHaEY%26pid%3DApi%26rs%3D1%26c%3D1%26qlt%3D95%26w%3D163%26h%3D96&tt=Wayne+Williams+-+Straight+From+The+A+%5BSFTA%5D+%E2%80%93+Atlanta+...&sigr=AsqPbybWOolg&sigit=db5ahdqk5h6z&sigi=Gpn3Dnxodecb&sign=vHz2fCeM22Gd&sigt=vHz2fCeM22Gd&v_t=webmail-searchbox&s_it=img-ans'][/URL]
Wayne Bertram Williams is an American serial killer serving life imprisonment for the 1981 killing of two men in Atlanta, Georgia, and the p... en.wikipedia.org

Born: May 27, 1958 (age 62)
 
I'll admit I first found out about this case from Mindhunters, and I'm only now looking into the full scope of the timeline/investigations.
I have no doubt that WW was an offender and did commit some of this crimes, but there were likely other murderers or even copycats at work. (Or even the opportunistic KKK member). I have nothing but words of disdain towards town officials and LEOs who didn't take this as seriously as they should've. These victims deserve justice, and I hope LE today is using every bit of advanced tech to find the correct perp in every case, not just a one size fits all conviction.
 
Namlok04 said:
I'll admit I first found out about this case from Mindhunters, and I'm only now looking into the full scope of the timeline/investigations.
I have no doubt that WW was an offender and did commit some of this crimes, but there were likely other murderers or even copycats at work. (Or even the opportunistic KKK member). I have nothing but words of disdain towards town officials and LEOs who didn't take this as seriously as they should've. These victims deserve justice, and I hope LE today is using every bit of advanced tech to find the correct perp in every case, not just a one size fits all conviction.
Click to expand...


Im not defending Atlanta PD on how this was handled at the time, but you have to remember Atlanta has been a high crime area for a long time, and up until then had handled its own cases.

On top of this case was also dealing with a rash of other murders, rapes, robberies, drugs, assaults, missing persons, burglaries, and everything else at the time not associated with the ATKID case.

Serial crime can be extremely hard to solve as it is , but its even exponentially more so when they are hidden among some 75-100 other murder cases alone on top of everything else.

This was LONG before departments started sharing info and asking for help from each other.

In the ATKID case, you are looking at 28 + murders, that means there could in theory be at least 28 offenders but in this case, at least 3 but possibly as many as 5 serial killers could be working the same area.

Not all of them are serial killings, some of these were robberies that went wrong, some were street beefs, some were rapes , 1 could be a filicidal murder, and thats just some of the child victims.

Add into that now a possible KKK connection and then add into that the adults now you have even more of a dynamic to work with.

SO again Im not defending APD, but I understand what its like in a large metropolitan PD, and these were not the only things they were dealing with at the time.
 
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