GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #3

[Cattail]

agree!



and a woman who just got her hair did for the third time, suffering a cold,needs to look her best before a conference she was looking forward to attending leaving the house for a 14km walk and not having time for fresh nail polish and getting her makeup and hair done and outfit organised plus the usual routine of getting kids awake,dressed and fed... I mean really do the defence think that any reasonable jury would believe yep,totally went for a long walk, totally took her own life,totally had an accident. Yeah no.



Oh yeah and totally went for a long walk in the dark without her mobile phone when the night is dark and full of terrors.

Ok. Game of Thrones fan ?


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[cwalk74]

The sertraline ("Zoloft") was specifically tested for, as they had found the packet in Allison's car, plus they knew she was on it anyway.

And speaking of the sertraline, the defence keep babbling on about "normal levels" being this or that - but they are referring to peripheral blood levels (like you'd get from a blood sample taken from the cubital vein - the one in front of your elbow). But the samples taken from Allison's body were from the liver and some liver tissue - and as I've pointed out before, the liver concentrates many drugs, including sertraline. This, plus post-mortem redistribution, gives much higher levels than a peripheral blood sample would have done - but they couldn't get peripheral blood due to the decomposition.

That's why Prof Olaf Drummer pointed out that the levels that WERE found were within the range that would be expected - in the liver - from somebody who had normal therapeutic levels in their system.

The problem is - the prosecution have to distil this point down to a couple of dot-point facts so that the jury, who would be non-medical, can see what the point actually is.

Just a simple copy, paste, print and recite of your explanation and the jury could understand. I believe you've explained it very well.

I love this group of people searching for the truth ~ a great mix of minds.

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

Hmm funny how the time where I'm really interested has been glossed over - when they come back from overseas which is supposedly end of 1999 - 2000 - fro Christmas and a wedding (OBW +IW?). Which is when Allison gets a job back at Flight Centre. Gerry begs and begs for a job and then five months and some days later loses it (in August 2000 Gerry is made redundant and by December he is suing them (Flight Centre).
All this around when Allison supposedly gets depressed again - no wonder you big modsnip, you just cost her a job in a company where she'd excelled.
When was the oldest child born though - because Gerry maintains that it was because he was such a big earner that she stopped work and was able to start the family. All of these things happen around the same time and would love some help with the time line. I've seen the Flight Centre docs and know the dates of the redundancy and the suing, but the others I'm not sure on.

Anothermouse - Many thanks

You have some very valuable information. I've read snippets of this content before, but have been unable to find them again anywhere on the net.

Is it that Allison lost her Flight Centre job because her husband tried to sue her employer??

Do you know what Gered's high-paying job was that enabled Allison to become a "lady of leisure"?

Are the prosecution likely to have this information?

 

[squizzey1]

Mr Byrne: What were your plans for your life with Allison?

Mr Baden-Clay: We were planning to spend the rest of our lives together. We were working together on making that a reality after the infidelity that I’d had in the past.

Mr Byrne: What was your relationship with Toni McHugh at that time?

Mr Baden-Clay: At that time, I was communicating with Toni McHugh, but inmy mind we did not have a relationship.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...n-the-stand-20140627-zsnpa.html#ixzz35nwhY1Qs

:liar: :liar:

he was having it off with her BUT but in my mind we did not have a relationship.
what a load of crap

 

[Lu-Lu]

July 2001, I believe. There was a miscarriage in 2002. The second on was dec 16th 2003. The third 2006

Hmm funny how the time where I'm really interested has been glossed over - when they come back from overseas which is supposedly end of 1999 - 2000 - fro Christmas and a wedding (OBW +IW?). Which is when Allison gets a job back at Flight Centre. Gerry begs and begs for a job and then five months and some days later loses it (in August 2000 Gerry is made redundant and by December he is suing them (Flight Centre).
All this around when Allison supposedly gets depressed again - no wonder you big modsnip, you just cost her a job in a company where she'd excelled.
When was the oldest child born though - because Gerry maintains that it was because he was such a big earner that she stopped work and was able to start the family. All of these things happen around the same time and would love some help with the time line. I've seen the Flight Centre docs and know the dates of the redundancy and the suing, but the others I'm not sure on.

ETA... He said he was made redundant in August, 2000.

The accused said they fell pregnant at the Olympics: “She was an Olympic baby”.

He said his first daughter was born on July 3, 2001.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226966924597

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Longtime lurker from the start, but never felt I had anything to add as everyone else always seemed a step ahead of me! Amazing work by the way..admire you all for keeping up the fight to see Justice for Allison. As a Brisbane born and bred female of almost the same age as Allisonthis case has captured my heart like no other. I desperately want to see Justice for this lovely lady. I think my females can identify with her struggles. I am seriously concerned that GBC will walk.. Everything in my gut tells me different and has done from the very first news report I saw flash on the screen that morning long ago.

Something that had propelled me to write here...
Now that GBC (and his defense) are adamant in pushing the depression angle (which personally I feel had been completely overstated and overdone to the point of ridiculousness).. Whatever will he do if he is found not guilty and goes to pick up his precious life insurance money.. They won't pay if it was suicide will they? .. Wonder if Gerred has thought this through?

Thanks all for two years worth of reading and sharing in seeking answers. I'm sorry I didn't contribute more to discussion but have valued each and everyone of your contributions.

Thank you for your lovely post, Oliver's twist (like the name), I feel the same about all the posters here who've dedicated their time and energy that justice be done for Allison and her family. I only recently discovered this site but have been following this case since it first broke too. I've lived my whole adult life in Bris until recently since moving states, my adult children were born and raised there too.

Anywho, wanted to reply particularly to your thoughts about the insurance money, it was bothering me last night. GBC has come too far now to lose near a million. He'd be making plans for a book deal and interviews about his time in prison etc also. I'm channeling his thoughts btw , no way do I think he will be found not guilty.

So with this in mind, I'm wondering whether GBC is going to switch tactics next week and point fingers into another direction. Concede it was indeed murder, but not at his hands.

My Opinion Only

 

[alioop]

Another silly question here....will the jury see the evidence filed in relation to the bail hearing, and the committal, even though that evidence may not have been discussed at the trial (eg phil broom statement, financial tommy guys statement etc...)??

No they won't. Only exhibits tendered in court which don't usually include statements. Expert reports may be tendered in evidence so they may have access to some of them, but I don't know which ones.

 

[Cattail]

The autopsy findings showed that she hadn't been moved like that. The body was found in the position it was in from shortly after death. Things like lividity, etc, can indicate if a body has been moved.



Also, those creeks (Ugly Creek and Kholo Creek itself) are full of obstacles - rocks and boulders, tree branches, etc. I know - I've walked them. So if the body had been floated downstream on the flood, then it would have suffered multiple injuries with signs of those at the autopsy - none were found.



Also, to reiterate something from the hydrologist's report, the flooding after that heavy rain coincided with LOW tide, and the level didn't get up as far as where Allison's body was found. Normal high tide JUST reached it so that it would have been partially wet but not submerged - hence the difference in decomposition, with putrefaction on the "down" side, and mummification on the "up" side, if you see what I mean.



I really doubt the defence would be suggesting that Allison floated down to where she was found on the flood tide - we discussed that at length here ages ago, but once we had the hydrologist's report, that idea was scotched. And what would be the point of that, from a defence point of view, anyway? That doesn't make it any more or less likely that GBC put Allison's body there.

Maybe they aren't suggesting she floated but suggesting all that plant matter found in her hair could be in that location even if the specific plants aren't growing there because lots of debris gets washed along the creek?



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[BJsleuth]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-203836.html

A breakdown of GBC's phone records. There is some outgoing activity after 9pm at night etc and as late as 10:23pm. It doesn't suggest Allison confiscated his phone, does it?

If you look at the actually phone bill, there is more.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Welcome

Most life insurance policies exclude payout for suicide only for the first 12 or 13 months - this is simply so people don't decide to commit suicide and then take out a policy.

So if it was determined to be suicide then yes I believe payout would be made.



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I'm not sure whether that is correct Cattail. I'm sure Allison's medical history would come into play. I don't know that for a fact, GBC and Allison may not have divulged Allison's past, but this court case has, so imo, the insurance company would not pay out if suicide was decided as cause of death. :twocents:

For most, life insurance is a type of cover they take out as a precaution in order to financially protect their dependants. Just as disability plans will generally not cover people for self-inflicted injury, most life insurers will also place exclusions around suicide.

Suicide exclusion may be placed on policy if the applicant has a history of mental illness or has attempted suicide in the past.

http://www.lifeinsurancefinder.com.au/post/insurance-types/life-cover-death-benefit/suicide-is-it-covered-by-life-insurance/


EDIT: Read Trooper's post that payout has been made, held in trust and accruing interest, so disclosure of Allison's medical history occurred, was found to be satisfactory and suicide outcome won't revoke payment.

 

[alioop]

The prosecution gets to sum up their case after the defence finishes, so yes they can rebut the defence and have the last say too. I assume that's what you mean by rebuttal phase? Not sure if it's called that here.

There is examination in chief evidence which is what GBC is in the middle of now. Then the prosecution will cross examine him on his evidence, then the defence can re examine him to clear up something raised in cross examination.

When the defence closes it's case, the defence then does their closing statement summarising their case and then the prosecution will then do their closing statement. The judge then gives directions to the jury, verbal and usually written. The written ones are pre agreed with both sides prior.

Then it's up to the jury.

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

well. in the words of Gerard himself. he isn't proud of it..


ha de har har...

Not "proud"!!!!!!

He should be modsnip ashamed!!

From reading the tweets, it sounds like his 3 indiscretions (that we know of) were minor blips on his radar.

Yesterday, I became very angry reading the tweets that wonderful websleuthers had gone to great efforts to provide us. The content was so upsetting that I had to stop reading.

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

Mr Byrne: What were your plans for your life with Allison?

Mr Baden-Clay: We were planning to spend the rest of our lives together. We were working together on making that a reality after the infidelity that I’d had in the past.

Mr Byrne: What was your relationship with Toni McHugh at that time?

Mr Baden-Clay: At that time, I was communicating with Toni McHugh, but in my mind we did not have a relationship.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...n-the-stand-20140627-zsnpa.html#ixzz35nwhY1Qs

:liar: :liar:

Bet TM's spewing!!

 

[BJsleuth]

I'm not sure whether that is correct Cattail. I'm sure Allison's medical history would come into play. I don't know that for a fact, GBC and Allison may not have divulged Allison's past, but this court case has, so imo, the insurance company would not pay out if suicide was decided as cause of death. :twocents:



http://www.lifeinsurancefinder.com.au/post/insurance-types/life-cover-death-benefit/suicide-is-it-covered-by-life-insurance/

They've already paid it, it's in trust until this trial finishes. Can they take it back?

 

[DrWatson]

Sorry if I am boring everyone I just need to get it all out of my system, and have somewhere to put down. So he said yesterday that the finances weren't too bad, so why
could they not pay:
- their last few months of credit cards minimum repayments
- the interest payments due on the three $90.000 loans from the three amigos
- the instalments to his partners for the purchase of the rent roll
- the life insurance premium on Allison's due on the 9th of April but for which an extension was granted until the 9th of May at which time it would lapse.
- why did his credit card get rejected on the afternoon of the 19th

If his finances were ok why was he in tears to Sue Heath trying to get a $400,000 loan from Bruce Flegg, and why did he tell the police on the 20th that they were 'on he bones of their arses' financially.

Ah, but surely none of that could possibly be true or relevant? The defence has already said that GBC was NOT under any kind of stress.....

Not even stress being applied by Toni McH. Not even stressed enough to be very "emotional" while speaking to Sue Heath about borrowing $400k from Dr Flegg and being told it wouldn't happen.

Nope - no stress there at all. Part of normal everyday life. Keep calm and carry on.

 

[Cattail]

I'm not sure whether that is correct Cattail. I'm sure Allison's medical history would come into play. I don't know that for a fact, GBC and Allison may not have divulged Allison's past, but this court case has, so imo, the insurance company would not pay out if suicide was decided as cause of death. :twocents:







http://www.lifeinsurancefinder.com....efit/suicide-is-it-covered-by-life-insurance/

My own policy had a suicide exclusion for the first 13 months only. I thought that was fairly standard these days.

But you are correct that individual policies can vary. I don't remember exactly what medical questions they asked me now as it was a few years ago that I took the policy out.



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[TootsieFootsie]

I found a sock that was "missing" for weeks after I read this :blush:


How Your Brain Tricks You Into Thinking You Lost a Sock

http://lifehacker.com/how-your-brain-tricks-you-into-thinking-you-lost-a-sock-660109058

 

[BreakingNews]

I have just re listened to the interview GBC did at the Brookfield showgrounds on 21 April 2012 and thought it very odd that if your partner had been missing for 2 days you would NOT be laughing and making side jokes. He also simply referred to Allison as 'she'. Hardly behaviours of a concerned and caring partner.

 

[Cattail]

I found a sock that was "missing" for weeks after I read this :blush:





How Your Brain Tricks You Into Thinking You Lost a Sock



http://lifehacker.com/how-your-brain-tricks-you-into-thinking-you-lost-a-sock-660109058

But when you lay out on the lounge all the single socks in a row and there are no matching ones ..... Then yes the sock monster has been


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[Snails]

Not "proud"!!!!!!



He should be modsnip ashamed!!



From reading the tweets, it sounds like his 3 indiscretions (that we know of) were minor blips on his radar.



Yesterday, I became very angry reading the tweets that wonderful websleuthers had gone to great efforts to provide us. The content was so upsetting that I had to stop reading.

Gerred really has a way with words doesn't he - then again I guess those words were from his legal team attempting to downplay his infidelities (the ones we know about). There will be a lot more of this on Monday I'm sure.