GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #3

[Neuromancer]

Interesting reading suggested by people posting on this thread.

Here are some points I just think are classically portrayed in this case!
"Batterers ... adopt the role of a hurt, sensitive man who doesn't understand how things got so bad and just wants to work it all out 'for the good of the children.' He may cry ... and use language that demonstrates considerable insight into his own feelings. He is likely to be skilled at explaining how other people have turned the victim against him, and how she is denying him access to the children as a form of revenge ... He commonly accuses her of having mental health problems, and may state that her family and friends agree with him ... that she is hysterical and that she is promiscuous. The abuser tends to be comfortable lying, having years of practice, and so can sound believable when making baseless statements. The abuser benefits ... when professionals believe that they can "just tell" who is lying and who is telling the truth, and so fail to adequately investigate.
Because of the effects of trauma, the victim of battering will often seem hostile, disjointed, and agitated, while the abuser appears friendly, articulate, and calm. Evaluators are thus tempted to conclude that the victim is the source of the problems in the relationship."

So true. And spend all their time turning their victims into nervous wrecks, then pointing out to the world "she's so crazy - look what i have to put up with!!"

 

[LadyBird1]

Good points Silver

OK so this just made me think of some more specific mechanics, running with a few assumptions, that
(a) the blood came from her head/face (most likely spot for bleeding and possible site of some soft tissue injuries)
(b) he carried her out (i don't see the need for dragging - not that heavy) - fireman's lift over shoulder is easiest

If you were facing the open back of a 4WD, with a body over your right shoulder (the natural spot for R-handed person), you'd lean in, sit the lower part of the body down, then lean forward a bit more to let the top of the body fall back to lie flat.
However a limp body is hard to control unless you're used to it, and would fall a lot harder than you'd expect with this manoeuvre, which could explain:
(a) the thud heard by neighbour (said something like "sounded like a sack of potatoes")
(b) blood (from new or earlier facial injury) running out onto inside of right rear door (which would be the front part of the flat back area with the seats down) as the head turns to face the door (following the momentum of being laid down/falling back).

<modsnip>

Doesn't look like a large amount of blood - a few ml would be enough - but it has run out quickly, moving horizontally along the side of the flattened seat and running down.
Something like a graze to the head wouldn't do this, it would just smear, or ooze slowly and clot before it moved too far. Which is why I think a small collection of blood (from a bitten tongue or similar) has run from nose/mouth as the head turned sideways. (btw it's quite common for fluid to run out of the mouth of unconscious people when their head is turned to the side - one of the safety reasons for positioning unconscious people on their sides in the first place)

Also, while on this photo, I wonder if forensics checked the side of the seat for blood (the part of the seat-back that would have been against the car door when the seats were flattened). Because on the photo there you can see where the seat back was down at the time and the blood was absorbed by the cloth upholstery (from the top of the "HC 1" sticker up to the horizontal blood line, where there's just a faint, wider-spread smear in the middle of the blood trail running down).

But regardless, I think that blood shows that it was deposited when the seats were flattened, and not the sort of thing you could get from say, hitting your knee while sitting the back seat. So if they tried to argue that Allison left her blood on the door at some other random time, they'd have to explain what she was doing bleeding in there with the back seats down.

(and no, I don't go around hiding people in cars in my spare time, but I have spent a good deal of my professional life moving human bodies in varying levels of consciousness)


<modsnip>

The bonus DECOY toys!
Thank God someone has said that! Innocent looking Decoy covering something sinister.

 

[Tangled_Web]

The bonus DECOY toys!
Thank God someone has said that!

It is heartbreaking to think he may have used his children's toys in this way.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I can usually open the sites in Firefox by right click and select "open in a private window"
In Chrome I right click and select "open in new incognito window"
Other times I clear cookies but sometimes that isn't enough.
I used to google the headline but that method stopped working unless a different paper picked up the story.

For any sites that have a paywall, one way to access further reports is to close the site & clean out your cookies. The only other option is to pay up :sigh:

 

[BJsleuth]

Did the ladies she spoke to ever come forward to corroborate this?

Not that we've heard of KJ. Welcome back!

 

[Neuromancer]

What's everyone's gut feeling on this? I'm still thinking he's going down.... Maybe hoping a little too much....

He has to, surely?

It may not seem too exciting yet, but thanks his uncontrollable need to get up and sing "My Way", we now get to have prosecution cross-examination :dance:

 

[Makara]

What's everyone's gut feeling on this? I'm still thinking he's going down.... Maybe hoping a little too much....

Hi Ippy, hope you're feeling better. Initially my feeling was (and had been even prior to the trial), that GBC would get off. I don't feel that now. I think he will be found guilty. Also the fact that he has chosen to take the stand is a big bonus for the prosecution IMO. I'm so looking forward to them tripping him up in so many ways next week.

 

[BJsleuth]

Hi Ippy, hope you're feeling better. Initially my feeling was (and had been even prior to the trial), that GBC would get off. I don't feel that now. I think he will be found guilty. Also the fact that he has chosen to take the stand is a big bonus for the prosecution IMO. I'm so looking forward to them tripping him up in so many ways next week.

Agree. The prosecution on cross will be verrry, interesting.

 

[Makara]

Photo as police found it next morning with the seats upright and with bonus decoy toys:

<modsnip>

<Respectfully snipped.>

The seats you see in the photo are the second row passenger seats. The third row of seats are still folded down at this stage. It was only after the police had noticed a small 'stain' near where the folded down seat meets the side of the car that the seats were raised to reveal the blood flow.

And those toys! Every time I see this photo it gives me chills. Those toys belonged to his daughters and yet he callously placed them in the back of the car where he'd placed their dead mother only hours earlier. I wonder what a shrink would make of that? Seriously, this bloke is a monster!

 

[Couldbe]

With regard to ABC's blood found in the Captiva, I am still wrestling with why not a single cell of blood was detected inside the jumper that had kept intact the plant matter entwined in her hair. Would it really have been the rushing water that washed away any trace of blood inside the jumper?

I know that her head is likely to have been just above the water line under the bridge (or am I completely wrong on this?), and/but if a thorough examination was done of the jumper, one would think that some little trace of blood would have been detected.

Would it have been her shin that was bleeding? ... an injury that was caused somehow while her body was being transferred to the Captiva?
Maybe Allison's body wasn't placed in the back head first, but the blood ran down inside a tarp/plastic wrap of some sort to the door area.

I still think that the screams may not have been related to Allison, and she was smothered with a pillow ...... thereby not waking her children. A car leaving from in the car port, IMO would be unlikely to wake her children.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I have to say I have also been meaning to chime in on the hair issue. I just don't think it's reasonable to say "No woman would ever go walking and ruin her hair after going to the hairdresser".

We have not heard that she had a blowdry or any styling done, have we? Having it coloured really wouldn't have an impact on if she did choose to go walking or not, IMO.

When I colour my hair or have it coloured, I forget about it pretty much as soon as it's done. Maybe I'm just not someone who is so into hairstyling. I straighten it sometimes and colour it regularly, and on the occasions I've had it styled with say, a blowdry, I've washed it before work the next day anyway, because it gets messed up in bed and ruined, IMO.

I just don't think we could really say how "every woman" feels about these things

When I've got new color, then often I don't recognize myself crossing a mirror and always want to greet the foreign person, haha. Next day after the hairdresser I always wash my hair to remove the care products (!) and to have my standard hairstyle (boring, but ...).

Allison had to leave the home at 7am and only therefore I think, she had not time enough to do her hair completely fresh and therefore wouldn't walk in cold humid air. IMO

 

[Sydneygal]

With regards to how the blood got into the rear of the car I have a theory which probably won't sit well with some but I'll put it out there as food for thought anyway. As someone who has suffered depression & anxiety and also an abusive relationship and has needed to know the absolute nitty gritty of infidelities, & the fact that Alison had questioned all of the finer details of GBC's affair even down to asking him to draw a floorplan of TMcH's place, I think that it is a possibility that she has asked to have sex in the back of the car as per his trysts with TMcH and this is where it has turned violent. Whilst someone may need to know the details the reality dredges up a lot of pain & anger as well. This could very well account for the blood trail whilst the seats were in the down position, the scratch marks of a scorned woman & the consequent death of Alison. Just a theory...

 

[Neuromancer]

<Respectfully snipped.>

The seats you see in the photo are the second row passenger seats. The third row of seats are still folded down at this stage. It was only after the police had noticed a small 'stain' near where the folded down seat meets the side of the car that the seats were raised to reveal the blood flow.

Ah! Thank you Makara - I didn't know that.

 

[BJsleuth]

Is there a transcript of G's spiel yesterday? Something kind of stood out at me but I can't find it or remember the exact words. It was pertaining to the girls.

 

[LadyBird1]

It is heartbreaking to think he may have used his children's toys in this way.

Heartless indeed. Horrible. Not human.
Every time I saw photos of those toys, I physically got cold chills. Got physically sick. Got headaches. Got all twisted up inside.
That was in the beginning. Had nothing to substantiate those horrible feelings.
Something not right. Something sick. Something sinister.
Only later, much much later, did I learn of the blood in the car.

 

[Amee]

With regards to how the blood got into the rear of the car I have a theory which probably won't sit well with some but I'll put it out there as food for thought anyway. As someone who has suffered depression & anxiety and also an abusive relationship and has needed to know the absolute nitty gritty of infidelities, & the fact that Alison had questioned all of the finer details of GBC's affair even down to asking him to draw a floorplan of TMcH's place, I think that it is a possibility that she has asked to have sex in the back of the car as per his trysts with TMcH and this is where it has turned violent. Whilst someone may need to know the details the reality dredges up a lot of pain & anger as well. This could very well account for the blood trail whilst the seats were in the down position, the scratch marks of a scorned woman & the consequent death of Alison. Just a theory...

:thud:

 

[Forensics]

Thanks wewillgetyou. They're on an uphill battle with the video. No chance in the world they could re-create that creek area to what it was back in April,2012 no matter how much debris or whatever is in that creek.

I still cannot believe they even thought about going there. That tells me they're desperately clutching at straws.

Yes and isn't it strange that if she picked up the leaf matter from the debris in the creek that was from exactly the same plants that grew at her house...and not one leaf from a foreign plant that grew somewhere else......what are the odds of that?

 

[Sydneygal]

:thud:

Amee have I gone over already covered ground? Sorry if I have I haven't waded through everything as yet

 

[Couldbe]

Yes and isn't it strange that if she picked up the leaf matter from the debris in the creek that was from exactly the same plants that grew at her hous d not one leaf from a foreign plant that grew somewhere else......what are the odds of that?

Exactly..... and how would they get inside the jumper which was wrapped around Allison's head?

 

[Freya1977]

<respectfully snipped>

Zoloft is considered to be so safe that even GPs have the authority to prescribe it.

Welcome Bedazzled

Not wanting to nitpick but just pointing out that GPs are able to prescribe probably 99% of medications. Not very many exceptions..... so that's not really an indication of safety. There's a few restricted drugs that require specialist referral but they are few and far between.

GPs should not be underrated for their role in managing mental illness. Mine is more helpful than any of the psychiatrists I've ever seen, and in fact I don't even see one anymore, just my GP