GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #3

[BreakingNews]

He is just too much! How would any other man measure up - we are so unlucky WS girls!
GBC is a catch beyond any woman's most delicious dreams. FAR OUT --- a loving husband, a fully, qualified accountant (but yet not chartered or practicing- really doesn't matter), an unequivocally devoted spouse and so loving and understanding to his new little family, sets up monitoring equipment to make sure his wife is coping with wiping the bench top in the kitchen, capable of changing nappies on the way to an open home, <modsnip>his fist born DAUGHTER oops bummer its a girl child, drives Allison to every doctors appointment to ensure she can function in the future (she doesn't have any other commitments) because its her problem she can't conceive a boy Baden-Clay child.

Sorry Marley - this is the end of rant , I don't expect this post to last long on here, but I have been here on WS since the beginning of this case and I feel quite emotional about Allison, and truly feel that she has been mis-represented by those closest to her. She was the one with potential brains drive and love for life. That was totally sucked out of her and for that I am incredibly sad.

Liadan, I can totally understand your rant. He makes out it is Super Gerard to the rescue. Didn't he get pregnant and have a son for Allison? So so not how it really was. Such a caring man has a wife who writes in her diary how he tells her she smells. No Gerard, you were far from the loving, caring person you are making yourself out to be.

RIP Allison. Justice will be done for you and your family.

 

[Liadan]

Interesting reading suggested by people posting on this thread. (samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily10.htm)

Here are some points I just think are classically portrayed in this case!
"Batterers ... adopt the role of a hurt, sensitive man who doesn't understand how things got so bad and just wants to work it all out 'for the good of the children.' He may cry ... and use language that demonstrates considerable insight into his own feelings. He is likely to be skilled at explaining how other people have turned the victim against him, and how she is denying him access to the children as a form of revenge ... He commonly accuses her of having mental health problems, and may state that her family and friends agree with him ... that she is hysterical and that she is promiscuous. The abuser tends to be comfortable lying, having years of practice, and so can sound believable when making baseless statements. The abuser benefits ... when professionals believe that they can "just tell" who is lying and who is telling the truth, and so fail to adequately investigate.
Because of the effects of trauma, the victim of battering will often seem hostile, disjointed, and agitated, while the abuser appears friendly, articulate, and calm. Evaluators are thus tempted to conclude that the victim is the source of the problems in the relationship."

 

[Brightbird]

Here Dr Hoskins says he can rule out a razor as causing the scratches. Before this he says he can't rule out all causes besides fingernails. He then says he can rule out some causes. The defence then suggests he can't rule out a razor, to which he replies that he can.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10638981&postcount=98"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 19th June - Trial Day 7, Week 2[/ame]


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246964&page=4


Here he says he finds it "extremely implausible"

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...ins-scream-20140619-3afgf.html?skin=text-only

 

[Amee]

He is just too much! How would any other man measure up - we are so unlucky WS girls!
GBC is a catch beyond any woman's most delicious dreams. FAR OUT --- a loving husband, a fully, qualified accountant (but yet not chartered or practicing- really doesn't matter), an unequivocally devoted spouse and so loving and understanding to his new little family, sets up monitoring equipment to make sure his wife is coping with wiping the bench top in the kitchen, capable of changing nappies on the way to an open home, <modsnip> his fist born DAUGHTER oops bummer its a girl child, drives Allison to every doctors appointment to ensure she can function in the future (she doesn't have any other commitments) because its her problem she can't conceive a boy Baden-Clay child.

Sorry Marley - this is the end of rant , I don't expect this post to last long on here, but I have been here on WS since the beginning of this case and I feel quite emotional about Allison, and truly feel that she has been mis-represented by those closest to her. She was the one with potential brains drive and love for life. That was totally sucked out of her and for that I am incredibly sad.

:grouphug:

 

[Liadan]

I was talking to someone at work today about the shaving cuts. He mentioned that he might even have believed they could be caused on a bony part of the face - but there is no purchase for the razor to grab anything where GBC has claimed his cuts occurred.
This fact rang so true to me - think about ladies shaving along the shin bone and how much easier it is get a shaving cut than on the fleshy part of your leg.

 

[Tishy]

I was talking to someone at work today about the shaving cuts. He mentioned that he might even have believed they could be caused on a bony part of the face - but there is no purchase for the razor to grab anything where GBC has claimed his cuts occurred.
This fact rang so true to me - think about ladies shaving along the shin bone and how much easier it is get a shaving cut than on the fleshy part of your leg.

Yes exactly. And having done that, you're hardly likely to persist with the same razor for another slash. And another one just for good luck.
LIAR

 

[whatif?]

Yeah, I just wish someone would dyb dyb dob dob him in.

Probably wishful thinking I know but what I would love to see happen is for the prosecution to have the case reopened and have TM come back and drop him in it. Could there be something in her 5th statement they could use against him.

Can someone answer please, are the jury given the witness statements or can they only use what's been said in court.

 

[FigTree]

Here Dr Hoskins says he can rule out a razor as causing the scratches. Before this he says he can't rule out all causes besides fingernails. He then says he can rule out some causes. The defence then suggests he can't rule out a razor, to which he replies that he can.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 19th June - Trial Day 7, Week 2


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Here he says he finds it "extremely implausible"

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...ins-scream-20140619-3afgf.html?skin=text-only

My bold.
Thank goodness he stood his professional opinionated ground on this matter.

 

[digitup]

For any sites that have a paywall, one way to access further reports is to close the site & clean out your cookies. The only other option is to pay up :sigh:

While I'm here...there may be further housekeeping taking place across the weekend. The major upgrade won't be happening for another week or so.

When WS is upgraded, don't panic, it will still operate the same as it does now. It will just "look" different & will have some nice new options.

I like my cookies so I just download and use another browser, firefox.chrome,safari etc and you then get your 30 free articles per month or whatever daily limits replenished. : )

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Sorry if I am boring everyone I just need to get it all out of my system, and have somewhere to put down. So he said yesterday that the finances weren't too bad, so why
could they not pay:
- their last few months of credit cards minimum repayments
- the interest payments due on the three $90.000 loans from the three amigos
- the instalments to his partners for the purchase of the rent roll
- the life insurance premium on Allison's due on the 9th of April but for which an extension was granted until the 9th of May at which time it would lapse.
- why did his credit card get rejected on the afternoon of the 19th

If his finances were ok why was he in tears to Sue Heath trying to get a $400,000 loan from Bruce Flegg, and why did he tell the police on the 20th that they were 'on he bones of their arses' financially.

So glad court is not sitting today as I could not deal with another avalanche of drivel, it would,keep me restless for another night. I am going to do some gardening and maybe clear my head.

Thanks to all sleuthers, and warmest thoughts for Allison's family and friends. If this is so disturbing to someone like me, I cannot imagine what it must be like for them.

bbm
I want to know, why GBC later didn't talk to BF about his previous cry for financial help and was quite relaxed? An idea of premeditated insurance-cash after murder since this day and only the date still open??

 

[Couldbe]

I was talking to someone at work today about the shaving cuts. He mentioned that he might even have believed they could be caused on a bony part of the face - but there is no purchase for the razor to grab anything where GBC has claimed his cuts occurred.
This fact rang so true to me - think about ladies shaving along the shin bone and how much easier it is get a shaving cut than on the fleshy part of your leg.

You are so right with that Liadan ............ it was actually mentioned by one of the Forensic witnesses at the Trial ....... i.e. with regard to the bony parts of the face / neck being the most likely areas.

My opinion about the scratches on his face ....... more likely to be during Allison's fight for her life. The Defence seem to have been maintaining a focus on an argument; no doubt for a specific reason ...... with regard to a finding/sentencing angle.

 

[Makara]

He is just too much! How would any other man measure up - we are so unlucky WS girls!
GBC is a catch beyond any woman's most delicious dreams. FAR OUT --- a loving husband, a fully, qualified accountant (but yet not chartered or practicing- really doesn't matter), an unequivocally devoted spouse and so loving and understanding to his new little family, sets up monitoring equipment to make sure his wife is coping with wiping the bench top in the kitchen, capable of changing nappies on the way to an open home, <modsnip> his fist born DAUGHTER oops bummer its a girl child, drives Allison to every doctors appointment to ensure she can function in the future (she doesn't have any other commitments) because its her problem she can't conceive a boy Baden-Clay child.

Sorry Marley - this is the end of rant , I don't expect this post to last long on here, but I have been here on WS since the beginning of this case and I feel quite emotional about Allison, and truly feel that she has been mis-represented by those closest to her. She was the one with potential brains drive and love for life. That was totally sucked out of her and for that I am incredibly sad.

Yeah GBC is just a real treasure isn't he? Why in hell didn't he get Allison out of Switzerland when there was a real chance of an avalanche and she was rightfully terrified. I know I would have been! Nup, GBC wonderful husband that he is, chooses instead to 'cover' for Allison while she is 'feeling unwell'. :banghead:

 

[BJsleuth]

I was talking to someone at work today about the shaving cuts. He mentioned that he might even have believed they could be caused on a bony part of the face - but there is no purchase for the razor to grab anything where GBC has claimed his cuts occurred.
This fact rang so true to me - think about ladies shaving along the shin bone and how much easier it is get a shaving cut than on the fleshy part of your leg.

We've discussed this at length - I have a house full of males. I said the same, I cut my shin or or just above the ankle because there's bone. I don't know anyone who's ever had a shaving cut under their arm though, but it's possible. The males said the same - the bony bits. Hubby has the same razor and said there's no way you could do that with that razor, you'd have to apply a lot of pressure. I've used that razor (Shh don't tell him ) and I found the blade popped off if you push too hard and I still haven't managed to cut myself!

 

[Neuromancer]

Just my idea of what might of happened physically in the lead up to her death - IF Gerard had a hand in her death.
<snip>

Then in a panic realising he killed her he dumps her in the car, banging her head against the rear wheel and doesn't realise that he's letting blood pool down the side of the door.

Good points Silver

OK so this just made me think of some more specific mechanics, running with a few assumptions, that
(a) the blood came from her head/face (most likely spot for bleeding and possible site of some soft tissue injuries)
(b) he carried her out (i don't see the need for dragging - not that heavy) - fireman's lift over shoulder is easiest

If you were facing the open back of a 4WD, with a body over your right shoulder (the natural spot for R-handed person), you'd lean in, sit the lower part of the body down, then lean forward a bit more to let the top of the body fall back to lie flat.
However a limp body is hard to control unless you're used to it, and would fall a lot harder than you'd expect with this manoeuvre, which could explain:
(a) the thud heard by neighbour (said something like "sounded like a sack of potatoes")
(b) blood (from new or earlier facial injury) running out onto inside of right rear door (which would be the front part of the flat back area with the seats down) as the head turns to face the door (following the momentum of being laid down/falling back).

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246322&page=2

Doesn't look like a large amount of blood - a few ml would be enough - but it has run out quickly, moving horizontally along the side of the flattened seat and running down.
Something like a graze to the head wouldn't do this, it would just smear, or ooze slowly and clot before it moved too far. Which is why I think a small collection of blood (from a bitten tongue or similar) has run from nose/mouth as the head turned sideways. (btw it's quite common for fluid to run out of the mouth of unconscious people when their head is turned to the side - one of the safety reasons for positioning unconscious people on their sides in the first place)

Also, while on this photo, I wonder if forensics checked the side of the seat for blood (the part of the seat-back that would have been against the car door when the seats were flattened). Because on the photo there you can see where the seat back was down at the time and the blood was absorbed by the cloth upholstery (from the top of the "HC 1" sticker up to the horizontal blood line, where there's just a faint, wider-spread smear in the middle of the blood trail running down).

But regardless, I think that blood shows that it was deposited when the seats were flattened, and not the sort of thing you could get from say, hitting your knee while sitting the back seat. So if they tried to argue that Allison left her blood on the door at some other random time, they'd have to explain what she was doing bleeding in there with the back seats down.

(and no, I don't go around hiding people in cars in my spare time, but I have spent a good deal of my professional life moving human bodies in varying levels of consciousness)

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246322&page=2

 

[LadyBird1]

I was talking to someone at work today about the shaving cuts. He mentioned that he might even have believed they could be caused on a bony part of the face - but there is no purchase for the razor to grab anything where GBC has claimed his cuts occurred.
This fact rang so true to me - think about ladies shaving along the shin bone and how much easier it is get a shaving cut than on the fleshy part of your leg.

It's a queer thing; The "razor" cuts have been debunked, refuted, ruled out etc as having caused the dreadful marks on G's face; by professional people, experts in their field.
Meaning the marks were NOT caused by a razor, old or new.
BUT; G pushed on regardless with his beautifully rehearsed spiel, (had two years to put all together);
and maintained that YES, That was indeed how the marks occurred.
Did I miss something? Besides learning just who was calling the shots!

 

[kiwijayne]

Olivia said a black or white T-shirt G had told her.


Ms Baden-Walton said she saw some women on Savages Rd and spoke to them, but they asked her what Ms Baden-Clay would have been wearing.

She said she called her brother again to find out what his wife would have been wearing.

“I recall him saying something like three-quarter pants or tracksuit pants and a black or white T-shirt, he thought, and I asked if her hair would have been in a ponytail and he thought it probably would have been,” she said.

http://m.couriermail.com.au/news/qu...ing-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226955474656




From Transcript of Police Interview with Det Simmons on 20th April G said "She had a singlet top, um!"

Did the ladies she spoke to ever come forward to corroborate this?

 

[Neuromancer]

I have subscribed to 4 free articles daily, but can't copy and paste a link.
May I have your briefly advice on what to do next time?

For Australian newspapers - there are usually other sister newspapers with the same content, each with their own 10 articles a month or whatever quota.

so Sydney Morning Herald = Melbourne Age = (I think) Canberra Times = Brisbane Times etc. So once you've used up quota at one just start on another.

Courier Mail is Murdoch so The Australian, etc

If you google a unique sentence from an article on one, you will find all the others with the same content.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Mr Byrne: What were your plans for your life with Allison?

Mr Baden-Clay: We were planning to spend the rest of our lives together. We were working together on making that a reality after the infidelity that I’d had in the past.

Mr Byrne: What was your relationship with Toni McHugh at that time?

Mr Baden-Clay: At that time, I was communicating with Toni McHugh, but in my mind we did not have a relationship.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...n-the-stand-20140627-zsnpa.html#ixzz35nwhY1Qs

:liar: :liar:

Loving GG, 1. July, unconditionally, 8 seater car and so on - everything fictional? I think, after the murder GBC told TMcH, that he would assert in statements to have no relationship/no plans to save his (and her) future full of looooove. And please, TMcH should not "lost it" by hearing such stuff, but trust her lover as before.
IMO

 

[Ippygal]

What's everyone's gut feeling on this? I'm still thinking he's going down.... Maybe hoping a little too much....

 

[marlywings]

Bumping up my post from two pages back...

A reminder to everyone...

When you post a comment from a media report you must include the relevant link.

Posting a blog link doesn't count.