GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #3

[Greg]

I have to say over the last 2 years my thoughts of what happened that night have changed. I was originally of the opinion that this was a fight that escalated, and ended in Allison's death. I now believe it was premeditated.

A question, if anyone knows off the top of their head, and can save me from searching. The Bruce Overland emails, particularly, the one where he says to Toni, "Leave it to me". When was that sent? It was before the one stating he would be coming to her unconditionally by July 1st 2012, I believe. It wasn't in the same email. And these emails were from before Allison went missing? Am I correct in thinking that??

The asking for funds from Bruce Flegg, he intitally asked for $400,000. To which Bruce said no, and then came back and asked via Sue Heath, for $300,000 at a later date. When she returned the call back to him to say no to that amount, I believe that was when he hatched his plan to murder Allison for the insurance money, because he replied to Sue Heath, that he had another arrangement going, or another plan. My brain is really tired, and I can't remember the exact wording.

I think he hadn't originally planned to murder her that night, but because of the phone calls with Toni, and her demands on Allison not to go to the conference the next day, he was in a bind. He couldn't tell Allison not to go. As she would know he was still in contact with Toni. He couldn't have Allison going, in case the two of them crossed paths. I think he believed that Toni wasn't buying the stalling tactics anymore, and he couldn't be sure that Toni wouldn't make a scene. So that night became the night.. The girls were tired from the cross country plus also swimming at the BC's place. They were exhausted, no way would they wake up during the night.

I believe that NBC and OBW have covered up for him. I don't understand why they would both take their cars over to the house in the morning, if NBC was to stay with the girls while GBC and OBW searched the streets. Wasn't there a facetime between GBC and NBC phones around midnight? Or has that been misinformation? Perhaps NBC came over that night, and never left.

I think I need to read back over the last few days of testimony of the girls, and OWB and NBC, to make myself a visual, a timeline of everything. Something there is hinky, and I can't quite remember what order it's all in, but I think it will all become clear if it was all in one place easy to reference.

Good post lu lu , there were quite a few of us who thought there was more than one perp either during or after the fact, I myself never reconciled as to why OW was in town and on hand that particular night and the subsequent morning.

 

[silverau]

That's my thought LB. If my loved one was innocent but under suspicion, I would do everything in my power to help both the loved one and the police. But that's just me.

Tom Meagher comes to mind. Being Jill's husband of course he came under suspicion. He handled himself with dignity and cooperated fully with the police. Jill's parents stood by him and they all stood in unity together throughout Jill's murder investigation and trial.

Now flip the coin and take a good hard look at the Baden-Clay's. No comparison IMO.

I remember in the early days of Jills disappearance seeing banter online condemning Tom for his reactions,words etc and tut tutting that the police were removing bags of evidence from the house etc.

How some people initially vilified Tom has reminded me to always be careful and open to known facts or inconsistencies. And to keep faith in our police service and the courts.

I can't outrightly say GBC is guilty because of his mannerisms and his behaviours. Or because of how his family is reacting. Sure,there are suspicions regarding this but at the end of the day,many of us react differently to stresses,shocks etc. Especially given the circumstances of the previous 6 months of GBC and Als relationship.

 

[HoolyDooly]

True, but also I've always found the best liars put a fair bit of truth in what they say ...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is so true ! they sprinkle their yarn or version with enough truth as padding to give their lie some 'cred'.

 

[enthralled]

Oh my god. That's another one when I felt awful for the family of the victim. I don't know how they sat there and listened to her trash and whine about Travis. (Though I have to admit I enjoyed hearing Juan Martinez destroy her.)

When I was a senior in high school, I got a scholarship from a local business called SICO (I forget know what it stands for), which you say like "psycho". So during the graduation ceremony it was announced, "Jane Doe has also received the SICO award," and some of my classmates audibly giggled. My mom was so hurt and angry because these were people who had no idea what mental illness was or what it was to struggle. It was just their excuse to look down on me. I truly believe that it is no flaw in Allison if she was anxious or depressed, and I think it is nothing a person should be ashamed of. The thing (well one of them) that offends me is that it is being used (IMO) by Gerard, Olivia etc as a derogatory term or an excuse for him to cheat on her.

[emoji813]beat: to the Dickies and all who love Allison.

I agree totally

 

[Fuskier]

No I am not suggesting Allison killed herself. But just to correct another myth regarding suicide, someone getting their hair done does not mean they are not suicidal.

Sorry if I appear to be harping on these things, but I feel it's important for people to be aware that sometimes there are no signs, or the signs are not obvious. It may help one of you one day to be informed.

The following is about Charlotte Dawson.

"On the contrary, Charlotte had taken one of her favourite dresses - a floor length green number - out of the closet and slipped it on. She fixed her hair and she had stood in front of the mirror and applied a full set of lush, fake eyelashes, as if to ensure she'd look her best."

http://m.smh.com.au/lifestyle/celeb...re-all-nnn-nnn-vars-o&sa=D&usg=ALhdy28zsr6qiq


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IMO it is most unlikely in this specific case.

 

[Cattail]

I remember in the early days of Jills disappearance seeing banter online condemning Tom for his reactions,words etc and tut tutting that the police were removing bags of evidence from the house etc.



How some people initially vilified Tom has reminded me to always be careful and open to known facts or inconsistencies. And to keep faith in our police service and the courts.



I can't outrightly say GBC is guilty because of his mannerisms and his behaviours. Or because of how his family is reacting. Sure,there are suspicions regarding this but at the end of the day,many of us react differently to stresses,shocks etc. Especially given the circumstances of the previous 6 months of GBC and Als relationship.

This is very true. We cannot judge others by their reactions to stress and trauma.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cattail]

IMO it is most unlikely in this specific case.

Yes I said I wasn't suggesting it was.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[silverau]

I thought this article would be very interesting to Brisbanites who haven't made it to court yet and also our overseas friends.
It shows just what a circus this trial has become.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ding-in-brisbane/story-fnihsrf2-1226969974019

Cheers for that!

Was it you and Liaden that gave up your seats once for a family member? it was someone here,that much I can remember.

IMO I am appalled to read that a group of people coming in after lunch one day and displaced family members and friends and refused to budge. Surely any decent person with an interest in the trial would know that families and friends have more interest in the case than others?

At least there's a ticketing system now in place but still quite hard for me to understand why some family and friends have to be turned away after waiting in queue ( yeah yeah I know,the whole complaint by the defence thing :| )

 

[ColdFacts]

There are things bothering me and I don't know if these have been brought up at the trial (I haven't had the time to read everything that has been posted from the trial)

Refer to general discussion 33 - there is discussion about the Facetime call to NBC in the middle of the night, the roundabout, a witness who saw a man sitting in the bus stop, the possibility that the Coles car park was used as a meeting place, dumping place.

Also the witness who saw two four wheel drives at 4am on April 20. This was on msn but couldn't get link to connect.

I would like to know what others think....

 

[silverau]

Does anyone know if the exercise equipment Al bought was before or after TM run in at the gym?

Curious because if it was after it might have been so Al could keep away from TM.

 

[Amee]

There are things bothering me and I don't know if these have been brought up at the trial (I haven't had the time to read everything that has been posted from the trial)

Refer to general discussion 33 - there is discussion about the Facetime call to NBC in the middle of the night, the roundabout, a witness who saw a man sitting in the bus stop, the possibility that the Coles car park was used as a meeting place, dumping place.
Also the witness who saw two four wheel drives at 4am on April 20

I would like to know what others think....

http://www.news.com.au/national/baden-clay-murder-clue-witness-tells-homicide-probe-of-two-four-wheel-drives/story-e6frfkvr-1226356754019?from=public_rss

"There was a false positive in the tests,’’ Mr Roberston, of the Queensland Police Service’s Electronic Evidence Examination Unit, said.

Mr Robertson’s initial analysis found records of a FaceTime call on Mr Baden-Clay’s iPhone 3GS about 12.30am on April 20.

‘‘An iPhone 3GS isn’t capable of making FaceTime calls,’’ Mr Robertson said.

‘‘So the whole thing is just wrong,’’ Mr Davis said.

Mr Roberston replied: ‘‘That part of the report, yes.’’

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...sleep-court-20130312-2fxe4.html#ixzz35yq1imBf

 

[Amee]

This is an old link regarding the cars. May 27, 2012

In an apparent bid to clarify reported sightings and rule out various vehicles in the area, the woman was also asked whether she had recently pulled her car over to the side of Mt Crosby Rd.

Police initially appealed for information from anyone who saw either of the family cars - a silver Holden Captiva or a white Toyota Prado - on the night Mrs Baden-Clay disappeared.

They later made repeated pleas for anyone who had driven through the Kenmore roundabout on April 19 between 11.30pm and 4am the following day to contact them.

On Thursday, May 10, police went to the roundabout and stopped cars between those same times looking for people who might be able to assist with their investigation.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...llisons-murderer/story-e6frea8c-1226368925871

 

[HoolyDooly]

Don't get me wrong Cattail, I think you have raised some good points and I do appreciate it when someone can try to help me look at it from another angle. Unfortunately too many things have been said and done to make me see that family differently. Number one being the way they have trashed Allison.

It wasn't as if they said ( to the best of my knowledge ) something like
".... her ongoing depression really worried us at times because she was (considered) our daughter...lovely mum to the girls......such a top person.......we didn't always see eye to eye about everything, but we're desperately worried...tell us please what can we do, anything!"

Since the initial flurry before the police were called to look for A, NBC and Co have gradually increased being coolly negative in many ways about A, but concern and positive affirmations w.r.t G. :-(
Not many folks get along with the outlaws (inlaws ..er.... no pun intended BTW) however if I was missing, well no stone not turned, everything stops until we find HoolyDooly...etc ( or one would hope they would :blushing: )

 

[BJsleuth]

Now there is a normal family, reacting normally to an awful situation. We love you Mr and Mrs Dickie and family.

Well G up on the stand was embarrassing and like watching a train wreck
Not interesting at all!

Mr Byrnes opening address just sounded like he was making excuses for him and saying
the things that G would find difficult to say in such a way, up on the stand, because they are lies!

I have never followed a case so closely before …..have only seen court cases on TV …..
So like many others I am waiting for the knife form the prosecution to go in and twist!

Maybe next week when they get to challenge him on his inconsistencies and outright
Biased and skewed and made up rehearsed over and over again story

Part of me is so torn, wanting it to be true that he didn’t do it still…. For his sake for Alison’s, for the kids.
But as I get more and more involved, caught up in following and searching and hoping and waiting for the truth…the more I just CANNOT believe the story he and his defence appear to be hanging on to.

Sure all the defence has to do is keep the door open to doubt but how could anyone NOT
See the facts and the clues as to the truth

Allison is missing and then DEAD
It WAS Alison’s blood in an inaccessible except when the seats are down part of the car and the car was only weeks old
The scratches are not and never were from a razor – blind Freddy and all – learned and experienced opinion says they are fingernail scratches!
His phone as put on a charger at 1.48am when he was supposed sound asleep and then taken off at 6.18am

These are indisputable facts – the rest are just supporting evidence – circumstantial as it may be.

There are so many items of inconsistency or question marks about his behaviours and his story that are too numerous to mention and everyone here knows them ….
My favourites thought are…..
He said he used the find my phone app and count find her and later that day it was used and look there she was out the back!
He started panicking that his wife was missing within 20mins of getting up – he wasn’t concerned about her mental state according to his interviews – so not really sure why he rang the police instead.
And the interview at the command centre where he stuffed up his lines around his father making their lunches and when and at what stage of the morning he was shaving and having to cover his face with foam and band aids

Okay….. So I am relying on the prosecution to get stuck into him next week – none of this pussy footing around and nice questioning to ensure the jury doesn’t think they are being mean or irrelevant
Or one eyed on his guilt!

I really don’t want to hear any more of his testimony – except that I am hoping he will be able to bring himself undone.

Just bouncing off your post because it got me thinking. Downgraded the Lexus for Captiva because Allison wouldn't drive the Prado because of the hanky Panky with TM in it.
So HE kept the Prado, rather than the Lexus? That must have bothered Allison. You'd want that car gone. Something is not right there, I can't quite put my finger on it. Timeframe? So Allison drove the Lexus instead until she got the Captiva?

 

[Neuromancer]

Perhaps TM believed that by GBC telling Allison that TM would be there, Allison would not go to the conference. Recall that TM had only been at a new job a week and TM stated that she had no way of not going to the conference herself. That way TM achieves 2 objects - a) no confrontation or uncomfortableness as Allison not there and b) Allison now knows that GBC and TM are in contact (otherwise how does GBC know that TM is going to conference)? Maybe TM hopes that this new knowledge to Allison will bring the marriage matter to a head and hopefully the end of the marriage - July 1 is not that far away. GBC responds ...'leave it all to me now' or words to that effect. MOO

ok that makes sense, that in her mind "telling A that T is going to conference" is one step closer to "telling A he's leaving her for T". So the two things would conflate in TM's mind, and all the emotion she's been carrying about [wanting him to tell A that he's leaving her for T], would be transferred to [wanting him to tell A that T is going to conference], thereby making it a bigger deal than it would seem on the surface.

thanks!

 

[Amee]

Just bouncing off your post because it got me thinking. Downgraded the Lexus for Captiva because Allison wouldn't drive the Prado because of the hanky Panky with TM in it.
So HE kept the Prado, rather than the Lexus? That must have bothered Allison. You'd want that car gone. Something is not right there, I can't quite put my finger on it. Timeframe? So Allison drove the Lexus instead until she got the Captiva?

BJ, way back Brookster post 341

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177738&page=14

 

[HoolyDooly]

Well G up on the stand was embarrassing and like watching a train wreck
Not interesting at all!

Mr Byrnes opening address just sounded like he was making excuses for him and saying
the things that G would find difficult to say in such a way, up on the stand, because they are lies!

I have never followed a case so closely before …..have only seen court cases on TV …..
So like many others I am waiting for the knife form the prosecution to go in and twist!

Maybe next week when they get to challenge him on his inconsistencies and outright
Biased and skewed and made up rehearsed over and over again story

Part of me is so torn, wanting it to be true that he didn’t do it still…. For his sake for Alison’s, for the kids.
But as I get more and more involved, caught up in following and searching and hoping and waiting for the truth…the more I just CANNOT believe the story he and his defence appear to be hanging on to.

Sure all the defence has to do is keep the door open to doubt but how could anyone NOT
See the facts and the clues as to the truth

Allison is missing and then DEAD
It WAS Alison’s blood in an inaccessible except when the seats are down part of the car and the car was only weeks old
The scratches are not and never were from a razor – blind Freddy and all – learned and experienced opinion says they are fingernail scratches!
His phone as put on a charger at 1.48am when he was supposed sound asleep and then taken off at 6.18am

These are indisputable facts – the rest are just supporting evidence – circumstantial as it may be.

There are so many items of inconsistency or question marks about his behaviours and his story that are too numerous to mention and everyone here knows them ….
My favourites thought are…..
He said he used the find my phone app and count find her and later that day it was used and look there she was out the back!
He started panicking that his wife was missing within 20mins of getting up – he wasn’t concerned about her mental state according to his interviews – so not really sure why he rang the police instead.
And the interview at the command centre where he stuffed up his lines around his father making their lunches and when and at what stage of the morning he was shaving and having to cover his face with foam and band aids

Okay….. So I am relying on the prosecution to get stuck into him next week – none of this pussy footing around and nice questioning to ensure the jury doesn’t think they are being mean or irrelevant
Or one eyed on his guilt!

I really don’t want to hear any more of his testimony – except that I am hoping he will be able to bring himself undone.

Waitingnow you have covered well what I would have put in a post! saved me a job.
and yes, prosecution team - no fluffing about from now on and cut to the chase. Circumstance evidence you say? well it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, duck-bill, feathers, webbed feet and swims like a duck, it is a duck.
Now the duck's goose should be cooked I say - enjoy!

 

[kiwi50]

Not sure it was me. But this case comes to mind http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/weatherston-liar-believed-2852747

I believed he rambled on at his trial and he was a narcissist.

Yes it was me who brought it up, he would have been found guilty without his
five days in the dock trying to make himself the victim, speaking for five days
just revealed true narcissism and made him probably NZ's most despised killer.

I believe GBC is trying to bond with the jury to turn himself into the victim.

Until he got up and spoke I thought he had a good chance of getting off, and was a bit disappointed with the Prosecution's case, but now I can't wait for tomorrows episode of "The Life and Times of Gerard Baden Clay" every time he opens his mouth now, more ammunition for the prosecution, and the rope grows longer for him to hang himself.
I'll be a " little bit hurt" if his lawyers have managed to convince him to sit down and shut up at this point.

 

[BJsleuth]

Yes, I absolutely agree. I know it's been brought up here before many times but I don't see how the jury could overlook his flat response to Allison's disappearance. If someone in my family went missing, I would be be crying, trying not to be hysterical. I would be obsessed with finding them.

I suppose people who think GBC is innocent might assume that "not everyone shows panic in the same way". This was true of the Lindy Chamberlain case - people felt she showed coldness, indifference. However this was her expression at court and during all the media attention, much later after her infant's death, when she had to remain stoic in the face of such unfair public mudslinging. Her immediate response to her missing child was panic. (And from the transcripts we can see GBC was NEVER panicked about Allison's disappearance. You can also hear a lack of genuine distress or panic in his voice.)

GBC supporters might also conclude that he was initially distracted and/or worried at the thought that TMCH was responsible, and didn't want to disclose any emotion because he wanted to protect the mistress in case she was somehow involved. However, he's already thrown her under the bus in his testimony. :moo:

I think Lindy appeared more stunned/shocked than anything else. I don't think hers was no affect, it was read wrong. I believed she was innocent. As I said to my parents at the time, just because it hadn't happened before didn't mean it couldn't have. We now know that babies have been taken by dingoes before and there have been attempts since.

 

[catswhiskers]

Being such a local identity in the community, on Committees, etc, living in close proximity to the Showgrounds, what are the chances that he had been given a key beforehand?

I was wondering the same thing - did he have a position with the local Show Society/Committee? If so he might have a key, especially as he lived so close by, just so someone could get in quickly in case of emergencies.

Sorry I am catching up and still behind in this thread. I'm hoping someone can clarify something for me, regarding GBC not sharing a bed with Allison. I think I read that they hadn't shared a bed for many years, but was this back in the past (you know, when he was doing everything around the house), or right up until Allison went missing? I am thinking it is something his defense stated during his long winded opening, and that he meant it was ongoing.
The reason I'm asking is that in the tape of his police interview, GBC says he got out of bed that morning (when Allison was missing) and pulled up his side of the doona, and noticed that Allison's side had already been made too. So is that another piece of conflicting info, or do I have the wrong end of the stick entirely?

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/gerard-badenclay-trial-live-coverage-day-10-week-3-20140625-3aqx5.html

Apologies if this has already been discussed repeatedly, or if I am just plain wrong!