General Discussion and Theories #2

[swedie]

It seems at the time of the suggested 'thrill kill' to Kav, he was believing the murder happened over the perps wanting to steal a truck, coinciding with the BO's test drive the day before. This case very well could have started out as the perps wanting the truck, but then for the thrill of it they decided to murder TB. Very likely the perps would have discussed the "what ifs" prior to carrying out their plans. Example; "So what if the truck owner won't get out of his truck and let us steal it?" "Well we'll just kill him. Imagine how much fun and thrilling it could be to kill him and get rid of evidence." That would be a thrill kill and obviously premeditated.

It will be interesting to find out what the BO found suspicious about them. I know it's been stated he thought it was odd they arrived on foot and the fact his truck was a work type truck. They must have said it was for personal use and not work. Did MS have his hood up then also, did DM pocket the BO's keys hoping the BO wouldn't notice and they were hoping to return a bit later and steal the truck, did they seem nervous, agitated, did conversation seemed made up, evasive answers, did BO catching them in lies? MOO

Two days short of four months now since TB was murdered. I figure DP has quite a mountain of disclosure now. LE will still be working collecting every small stitch of evidence they can gain on the two jail birds. And still no other arrests, imagine that. Maybe trail will get underway winter of 2014. MOO

May SB and Tim's loved ones find some solace in knowing our LE is working diligently to bring justice for Tim. RIP Tim.

 

[Snoofo]

You don't find it suspect that an experienced homicide investigator says "I don't even know what thrill kill means"? I simply don't believe he does not know the meaning.

Disinformation can be deliberately spread to the public to further an investigation (not the same as misinformation, which is not deliberate).

If it is a figure of speech, maybe there are several interpretations and he cannot ascertain what another LE official may have meant by expression thrill kill.

Is everyone supposed to accept the wikipedia version as the true definition?! God help us then.

I checked the Oxford Dictionary and it didnt know what thrill kill meant either.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/search/words/?multi=1&q=thrill+kill

Furthermore, the new Merriam-Webster Dictionary hasnt heard of it either.

http://i.word.com/idictionary/thrill kill

Are the good people at Oxford and Webster lying too? hwow:

Kavanagh is probably just cautious to not use a phrase that can be too misleading. Remember, he knows way more than we do.

I must add, regarding your interesting statement about disinformation. With all due respect to LB and her caring family, this is exactly what I though the TPS press conference was about. I think the "very important witness" in the case may have an alibi for DM and some of the info released in the presser was planted to get her to start talking from a different perspective. Just another reason why Carbone hated being there and not knowing anything about the case. MOO! MOO!

 

[Alethea Dice]

A thrill kill is supposedly a murder committed just to see what it feels like, the excitement of the act, or because the person enjoys that they are getting away with it - kind of a catch me if you can type thing. Some murders that are called thrill kills are actually hate crimes or about the control and power, not the actual killing. It began as a term used to describe killing wildlife just for fun. IMO, it's a term that's been used too broadly in recent years when a motive cannot be found or there is a desire to withhold the real motive for whatever reason. So yes, I can understand Kavanaugh saying he doesn't even know what it means. That doesn't mean he's never heard of it. It was just one of those "what does that even mean" type statements.

I also don't think they would have stolen the truck if this was as simple as a "thrill kill". For someone who kills for the thrill of it, part of that thrill is getting away with it IMO. Stealing a truck, which only increases your chances of being caught, defeats the purpose.

JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

Are the good people at Oxford and Webster lying too? hwow:

<snip>

Maybe just too busy as wordsmiths and semantic BS artists, with no time for quick googling into crime and forensic psychology:


from:
http://criminalprofiler.tumblr.com/page/8

Thrill Kill

A thrill killing is a term used to describe a premeditated murder committed by a person who is not necessarily suffering from mental instability, and does not derive sexual satisfaction from killing their victims, or have anything against them, and sometimes don&#8217;t even know them, but is instead motivated by the sheer excitement of the act.

Thrill Killers:
&#8226;Leopold and Loeb
&#8226;Robert Thompson and John Venables
&#8226;Lindsay Hoani Beckett and Leslie Alfred Camilleri
&#8226;The Dnepropetrovsk Maniacs

from:
http://www.cram.com/cards/psy3230-theories-of-crime-2362652

PSY3230 Theories of Crime ...

Argument or Dispute, Revenge, Greed, Infanticide, Rape & Thrill Kill

from:
http://www.uow.edu.au/content/groups/public/@web/@health/documents/doc/uow045069.pdf

International Journal of Forensic Psychology
Copyright 2004 ...

As a general rule, adolescent homicides were rated as
&#8220;motiveless&#8221; and Carcach (1997) used the &#8220;thrill
kill&#8221; category proposed by Ewing, 1997 to describe
most adolescent homicides ...

 

[Woodland]

I must add, regarding your interesting statement about disinformation. With all due respect to LB and her caring family, this is exactly what I though the TPS press conference was about. I think the "very important witness" in the case may have an alibi for DM and some of the info released in the presser was planted to get her to start talking from a different perspective. Just another reason why Carbone hated being there and not knowing anything about the case. MOO! MOO!

RSBM - You know who the 'very important witness' is? Can you share or do you have a link?

Unsure what the mixing of LB and the very important witness is, but knowing who the witness is might explain that. TIA, as I was thinking Carbone disliked having to 'pick up the dropped ball' for one of his colleagues.

 

[MsSherlock]

RSBM - You know who the 'very important witness' is? Can you share or do you have a link?

Unsure what the mixing of LB and the very important witness is, but knowing who the witness is might explain that. TIA, as I was thinking Carbone disliked having to 'pick up the dropped ball' for one of his colleagues.

Woodland-I agree that Carbone didn't seem too happy being in the spotlight and having to make a public statement on a case that seemed to have been put on the back burner in Toronto with links to a brutal murder in Hamilton. IMO, it's pretty difficult to determine what role anyone on the "no-contact" list has in the case at this point.

 

[Snoofo]

RSBM - You know who the 'very important witness' is? Can you share or do you have a link?

Unsure what the mixing of LB and the very important witness is, but knowing who the witness is might explain that. TIA, as I was thinking Carbone disliked having to 'pick up the dropped ball' for one of his colleagues.

Yes it is DM's gf. She was referred to as a very important witness in the case and singled out as such from the 16 others on the do not contact /PB list. I will find the link but definitely on Susan Clairmont's twitter of first court appearance. Could talk of the relationship between LB and DM been planted to get the witness to work against DM?

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[Blomquist]

Yes it is DM's gf. She was referred to as a very important witness in the case and singled out as such from the 16 others on the do not contact /PB list. I will find the link but definitely on Susan Clairmont's twitter of first court appearance. Could talk of the relationship between LB and DM been planted to get the witness to work against DM?

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Could be... I imagine a girlfriend would be quite a close confidante of Dellens. She would probably have a clue about many things...maybe they talked about him going for a test drive and about buying a property and about any new, odd, and interesting people that had been hanging around in his life....or hers for that matter. People close often see things that we dont.... as they are more objective IMO

 

[Snoofo]

Well that took forever! Hard to find.

http://scribblelive.mobi/Event/Tim_...ard_makes_court_appearance?Page=0&Theme=10694

 

[ArianeEmory]

Yes it is DM's gf. She was referred to as a very important witness in the case and singled out as such from the 16 others on the do not contact /PB list. I will find the link but definitely on Susan Clairmont's twitter of first court appearance. Could talk of the relationship between LB and DM been planted to get the witness to work against DM?

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Are you theorizing that DM's girlfriend would be easily compelled to commit perjury against an innocent man in a murder case, via LE manipulating her into a jealous reaction?

If not, let me know in what way I misunderstood.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Are you theorizing that DM's girlfriend would be easily compelled to commit perjury against an innocent man in a murder case, via LE manipulating her into a jealous reaction?

If not, let me know in what way I misunderstood.

Snoofo can correct me if I'm wrong, but I took that to mean it could convince her to talk if she knows anything, rather than keeping her silence. (If she was saying nothing to start with.) I would think a girlfriend would not be as inclined to withhold information if she felt betrayed, is more likely than to perjure herself because of jealousy. Of course, staying silent can also mean that she just doesn't know anything, in which case the plant would be useless.

JMO

 

[Snoofo]

Are you theorizing that DM's girlfriend would be easily compelled to commit perjury against an innocent man in a murder case, via LE manipulating her into a jealous reaction?

If not, let me know in what way I misunderstood.

No, and excuse me as I should have included an example of a scenario. I believe I have suggested it before in better detail as its been on my mind since the Carbone press conference.

THE FOLLOWING IS A HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO. In no way am I trying to comment on anyone's character, nor do I know why gf is a VIP witness (as it may turn out being for opposite reasons than illustrated below, or she was Yukon driver after all, or whatever).

OK....Lets say gf has been questioned extensively by Hamilton LE and claims she was with DM during a period where LE's timeline would have him elsewhere (i.e. 10 p.m. the night of the murder or even watching the Leaf playoff game together when LE would have placed him at MB's driveway dropping off the trailer containing TB's truck). She tells LE he was with her and no amount of whatever mind games and tactics they use in questioning changes her story. In fact her story is simple and difficult to disprove. LE cannot tell if she's lying for her boyfriend but her position as it stands threatens LE's whole case against DM. In court when formal charges are laid, she is deemed a VIP of a witness and extra care is taken to remind DM of this and the fact he can have no contact with her.

For one, we know this matter is going to be a long one, so the distance between them is test #1 - they can work on her with no influence from him.

The LB story initially comes with claims of a rumour that DM had a relationship with LB. I imagine during questioning of gf this has come up and she may have insisted differently, that DM and LB have been friends for years, they are close and speak suggestively as a complete joke sometimes, people who dont know them get the wrong idea. She knows LB and gf thinks these allegations are wrong. She believes her man is true and LE cannot suggest otherwise.

Enter Det. Carbone, the lead on the LB case who looks like the most unwilling and uncomfortable detective to share information if there was any. He knows nothing really, but is quite clear on two things only: 1. LB had a non-traditional romantic relationship with DM and 2. LB was a paid escort. He doesnt know much else for certain about DM or LB, but he knows and willingly shares these two things as though this is the message he needs to convey, albeit reluctantly and uncomfortably.

I am not suggesting DMs gf is going to LIE and say she wasnt with him now out of jealousy (although it is also possible and based on some of the precedent case links provided by our ever-so-resourceful Alethea Dice, LE is very capable of pushing the right buttons to get the witness statements they require notwithstanding the truth behind it. But I dont know if gf would fall for that and lie for vengeance).

What I was actually thinking was if gf was lying in the first place to protect DM by providing the valuable alibi that can get him off the hook for the murder, then having another police force hastily search a small section of his farm to make it look good and then coming out to mainly point out DM was having (what most people might assume by non-traditional) a sexual relationship with someone who turns out to be a call girl (excuse the expression I am just trying to paint the picture that LE is hoping to convey in this scenario), would the gf out of jealousy and betrayal not wish to cease helping DM? With it being made clear in court they can have no contact, she cannot confront him for an explanation and he has no opportunity to explain what "non-traditional relationship" actually meant. (Lets say they werent having sex, but for the sake of argument they sent one another cell phone photos "Anthony Weiner-style").

I was suggesting the information was meant to test her existing story. Do I think a whole investigation of LB was created to test gf, NO; they were investigating anyway and will continue to do so, but it is odd what few details TPS chose to highlight after that PR move and photo op at the farm..

All of the above = moo!

 

[ArianeEmory]

I guess I will say a couple of brief things and leave it at that:

1) I think characterizing a typical woman as being easily manipulated with jealousy over a rival into betraying her principles borders on sexist at worst, "ripped from TV show plots" at best.

2) If TB's girlfriend lied to protect him, I would certainly hope she ended up telling the truth in the end.

 

[MsSherlock]

I guess I will say a couple of brief things and leave it at that:

1) I think characterizing a typical woman as being easily manipulated with jealousy over a rival into betraying her principles borders on sexist at worst, "ripped from TV show plots" at best.

2) If TB's girlfriend lied to protect him, I would certainly hope she ended up telling the truth in the end.

IMO, this thread is about to travel to new heights in suggesting that DM's girlfriend would in fact lie on the witness stand to do DM in. IMHO, LE would have hard evidence such as GF's cell phone activity and CCTV footage, along with other witnesses, such as GF's family and friends that could support her testimony if in fact it was against DM. IMO, perhaps DM had said things to her to cause her concern or she is the person who ID'd DM on the tattoo. I choose to believe that she is simply a good person with a conscience, but there's no doubt that DM's defense will be trying to discredit her to the max-so the GF certainly has a long road ahead of her. MOO

 

[Kimster]

:seeya:

Hey guys! If you're going to discuss someone possibly committing a crime, even a misdemeanor, we need to to link up to prior bad acts. In other words, if speculating someone would like on the stand, it has to make sense in that they lied or covered up before - and be prepared to link up to that fact.

:tyou:

 

[Snoofo]

IMO, this thread is about to travel to new heights in suggesting that DM's girlfriend would in fact lie on the witness stand to do DM in. IMHO, LE would have hard evidence such as GF's cell phone activity and CCTV footage, along with other witnesses, such as GF's family and friends that could support her testimony if in fact it was against DM. IMO, perhaps DM had said things to her to cause her concern or she is the person who ID'd DM on the tattoo. I choose to believe that she is simply a good person with a conscience, but there's no doubt that DM's defense will be trying to discredit her to the max-so the GF certainly has a long road ahead of her. MOO

It looks like there is still a misunderstanding of my post. I am not suggesting gf would lie on the witness stand. You may be confusing the misinterpretation and insistence of another poster that I am thinking the worst of this girl. I am suggesting LE is testing the witness statement given if it provides an alibi for DM for any main events the week of May 6.

If gf has told police she was with DM, but they still dont believe her because he is their primary suspect with all that circumstantial evidence against him and maybe more, might they not try anything to find ways to test her integrity? Is that such a shocking suggestion on my part?

This was hypothetical but if you think LE doesnt use certain tactics to test important witnesses who can break the case, thats your prerogative and we can respectfully agree to disagree.

I will check my post again but IMO I have not suggested myself that gf isnt a truthful person. Again I am suggesting it could be her story is being tested.

Hope that helps.

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[Juballee]

It looks like there is still a misunderstanding of my post. I am not suggesting gf would lie on the witness stand. You may be confusing the misinterpretation and insistence of another poster that I am thinking the worst of this girl. I am suggesting LE is testing the witness statement given if it provides an alibi for DM for any main events the week of May 6.

If gf has told police she was with DM, but they still dont believe her because he is their primary suspect with all that circumstantial evidence against him and maybe more, might they not try anything to find ways to test her integrity? Is that such a shocking suggestion on my part?

This was hypothetical but if you think LE doesnt use certain tactics to test important witnesses who can break the case, thats your prerogative and we can respectfully agree to disagree.

I will check my post again but IMO I have not suggested myself that gf isnt a truthful person. Again I am suggesting it could be her story is being tested.

Hope that helps.

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What I got from your post was that she wouldn't have to lie either way or change any story, it could be that playing on her emotions might cause her to reveal things to LE that she previously had not intended to, unrelated to the night in question, say for example if she knew he stole a candy bar or other things that make him look bad in general.

And I don't think that it is sexist to suggest that LE might manipulate a woman's emotions to try and turn a witness against a suspect, I am sure it happens to males as well. I have seen both sexes do stupid, irrational and over the top things when gripped by jealousy, it is a powerful human emotion.

 

[swedie]

IMHO and respectfully, all those theories regarding DM's gf being forced into making some sort of confession are null and void. It is as simple as this; she is a witness for the Crown, she provided information to LE to assist them in solving this case. She likely approached LE wanting to give information to assist in solving this case. So to assume she was dragged into an interrogation is premature and assumptuous. She may have been the third suspect Kav suggested the public had no fear over. Was she the person who called in the tip to LE about DM's tattoo? Highly feasible. I have no reason to believe an interrogator would have to force anything out of her. I would imagine she is most certainly disgusted, sickened and shocked to find out about TB's demise and the evil intent carried out by someone she thought she knew and loved. The same similar emotions probably being felt by MB. Disbelief would have been the first response, but when evidence is shown, reality sets in and takes over. MB and DM's gf are also victims they have been dragged into something so disturbing all because the are connected to DM. MOO.

Two sentences which carry a huge impact.

His lawyer Deepak Paradkar spoke to the media this morning and says his client is remorseful about what happened.

The Crown has said Millard's girlfriend may be an important witness in this case.

http://www.cjbk.com/localnews/story.aspx?ID=1961824

 

[bessie]

There is no factual basis for any theory surrounding the gf. We know only that she "may be an important witness in this case", presumably for the Crown. Anything else is pure conjecture which leads nowhere. An idea was proposed, and it's been debated. It's time to drop the subject.

Thanks!

 

[swedie]

IMO some more bits of interesting comments. So it seems DM had more than one Bobcat... "sitting amongst weeds"; wonder what the intent of this Bobcat was for. Obviously it had been there for some time. Hopefully LE did some digging in the backyard of the Maple Gate Court house. Maybe it had an intent but someone lacked ambition...

Lots of activity at this house. Including pick up trucks and old cars in the driveway. This leads me to believe this was DM's main living quarters at the time of his arrest, but that is just MOO.

Paradkar described Millard &#8212; whom the criminal lawyer said he knows through mutual friends &#8212; as &#8220;humble, unassuming &#8230; hard-working and extremely intelligent.&#8221;

Paradkar described Millard &#8212; whom the criminal lawyer said he knows through mutual friends &#8212; as &#8220;humble, unassuming &#8230; hard-working and extremely intelligent.&#8221;

Aside from a few house lights flicked on, there were no signs of activity at Millard's childhood home. A Bobcat sat in weeds in the back yard.

&#8220;There was always lots of activity at the house,&#8221; said a neighbour, who didn't want to be identified. She said pickup trucks and old cars were always in the driveway.
The Millards kept to themselves, neighbours said.
Carmen B, who has lived in the court for 23 years, said she never met or saw Dellen.
&#8220;I wouldn't know him if I bumped into him on the street. I really wouldn't. I have no idea what he even looks like,&#8221; she said. &#8220;The family did their own thing.&#8221;

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...et_up_at_millard_farm_in_waterloo_region.html