General Discussion

[believe09]

I have - we are 3 for 7 for 2008

And what does that mean? You have called LE in 3 out of 7 cases?

 

[dearmont]

And what does that mean? You have called LE in 3 out of 7 cases?

No it means we have led LE to 3 sets of remains out of 7 cases we supported in 2008 - and before you ask, I will be happy to post details once I get clearance from LE and family on these. They are still active homicide investigations and have not been closed yet.

 

[believe09]

No it means we have led LE to 3 sets of remains out of 7 cases we supported in 2008 - and before you ask, I will be happy to post details once I get clearance from LE and family on these. They are still active homicide investigations and have not been closed yet.

But you can post who the "we" is correct?

 

[dearmont]

But you can post who the "we" is correct?

The "we" are inconsequential and not germane. The question to CP on his/her assurance that none of the names I had previously mentioned were involved in Tara's disappearance or demise which led me to ask, sincerely, for their thoughts on who was directly involved.

This thread needs to continue to focus on the admirable efforts of all of you who are dedicated to finding out the truth about what has happened to Tara.

 

[believe09]

The "we" are inconsequential and not germane. The question to CP on his/her assurance that none of the names I had previously mentioned were involved in Tara's disappearance or demise which led me to ask, sincerely, for their thoughts on who was directly involved.

This thread needs to continue to focus on the admirable efforts of all of you who are dedicated to finding out the truth about what has happened to Tara.

The "we" are germane to your assertion that you have been part of a certain number of successful recoveries which you are unwilling to name.

Further, you state that if CP names a suspect you can lead someone to a body-am I misreading your post?

Each of those statements are worth further investigation on a board that is about "sleuthing" cases, particularly a high profile one like this one. JMO.

Moving on, then-

Did the show give anyone a new perspective on whether or not they think Tara's case is linked to Jennifer Kesses?? I cant help it; I find the idea so far fetched...

 

[mysteriew]

I read somewhere, and I think here at WS, that the latex glove was traced to a lot from a nursing home. If that is true, does anyone know where this nursing home was? Ocilla - there's four in town - or Fitzgerald, GA, or - Hawkinsville GA? Would be interesting to know also if any of these had any construction/rehab being done at the time Tara went missing. Transient construction workers, especially trades like painters/drywall, travel in groups. Possible that a group traveled south to Orlando to work at Jennifer Kesse's condo complex. Wouldn't be too much for such workers to maybe pick up latex gloves at a nursing home to use on the job?:waitasec:

You seem to be hinting at the construction workers. As I have said I am not familiar with these cases except what I saw on the show but I have a question. One thing I noted about the areas these girls lived in was that they appeared to be upper middle class apartment buildings. Not so exclusive that a stranger would stand out, but exclusive enough that people would note dress etc. on any stranger. IOW a man hanging around driving a beater truck and dressed in jeans is going to stand out. Wouldn't you think?

My impression is that whoever it was, was average for the area. Dressed upper middle, maybe young college educated or looked college educated. This may seem elitist of me, but upper middle class has a 'look'. They shop the same places, follow the same fashions. I think anyone who was dressed otherwise would have put these girls on guard and make them more likely to scream. Esp. Kesse. Yet no one heard anything. They didn't seem to have struggled. Could have been a blitz attack, but there doesn't appear to have been any blood at the scene.

Something lulled these girls to the extent that they allowed the suspect to get close to them. Granted that this was there home, so their defenses would be somewhat down. Granted that it was either at night or first thing in the morning so they might not have been as alert. But he got close enough to get them under control, get them into a car and go off with them without anyone even recalling seeing them. Kesse exp. seemed like she wouldn't allow a stranger to get too close to her. She wouldn't have opened her door without checking, she wouldn't have allowed a stranger to get close to her. She strikes me as the type that would scan the parking lot as she was going to her car and would not turn her back on a stranger. Esp. if that stranger stood out in any way. And she was already uncomfortable with the construction guys.

My theory is that they were both caught at their vehicles. In a similar way to a mall attack, when they went to unlock their vehicles or open the car door, the unsub was there with a gun. Which means that this guy was there waiting, I don't know if he was waiting on them or just an easy target, but he was waiting. People would have noticed a guy hanging around unless he looked average for the area. The girls would have been more alert, unless the guy looked average for the area. As they unlocked their vehicles, the unsub came up behind them with a gun and ordered them into their vehicles.

One thing that does surprise me, is that Kesse didn't struggle. She was supposed to be very security concious. And most self defense classes, women's defense seminars etc. will advise that if put in that position, don't go with them. Struggle, even risk getting shot, but don't go with them. Because if he shoots, you stand a better chance of getting help, if you go with a man who is ready to shoot you won't ever be in a position to get any help. Still when faced with a gun, that would be a hard decision to make.

 

[Esah]

Personally I don't see any connection at all between the two cases. I think 48 Hours was just trying to make a story. I'm glad that Tara and Jenneifer got back out into the public but I just don't see a connection.

Dearmont, I'm with everyone else here in my curiosity. You sound pretty sure of your self and we could use some of that right about now. But I have to tell you that we've had many like you that have come and gone with no benefit to Tara's case. We would love your help, no doubt, but you have to understand where we are all coming from. Playing secret, like you are only feels like the start of a waste of time.

If you study up on the names of men in this case, why not try to do your thing on all of them. There are only 4 or 5 names that are being tossed around. If you can locate a body just by knowing the name of a person of interest, then perhaps you should apply this to each one of them. There are some of us who think one or two might be connected anyway and this might sinch the deal for you.

Your help and interest are appreciated as long as they are both in earnest.

 

[believe09]

Personally I don't see any connection at all between the two cases. I think 48 Hours was just trying to make a story. I'm glad that Tara and Jenneifer got back out into the public but I just don't see a connection.

(snipped)

I respect your opinion Esah-I actually spent the evening yesterday reviewing the history of Ocilla to see if the name had any particular meaning-if you check out the Jennifer Kesse thread, there is a guestbook referenced. A poster to the guestbook indicated that there was a location near Jennifer's apartment named Ocilla Court. This was how the poster was tying the two together...

While I did learn a whole lot about Indian Settlements and how old some of the GA counties really are, lol, I couldn't make a connection between the two with the exception of the fact that these two beautiful young women disappeared without a trace and LE are hampered in the case by a few things-with Kesse, tracing the construction workers appears to be a difficult task. With Tara, searching all areas that might have contained her body and a contaminated crime scene seem to be hampering some of the investigation.

Back to the boondoggle, I guess...

 

[Esah]

Believe09, I can see some vague similarities but they are way too vague to interest the GBI imo. I think at one point they were interested in that serial killer, Gary Hilton, being the link, but he cannot be tied to both cases as far as I know.

I saw something gruesom on tv last night and I sure hope this hasn't happened to Tara. They said that the killer used hydochloric acid to dissolve a body. As sick and horrible as this is, Tara could be anywhere if this was done to her. But in this case on tv, they did find the remains and it lead to the killer.

I know that this has been talked about before and that it was discussed that one of the poi's purchased some of this chemical but I don't know this for a fact. all jmo.

 

[believe09]

Believe09, I can see some vague similarities but they are way too vague to interest the GBI imo. I think at one point they were interested in that serial killer, Gary Hilton, being the link, but he cannot be tied to both cases as far as I know.

I saw something gruesom on tv last night and I sure hope this hasn't happened to Tara. They said that the killer used hydochloric acid to dissolve a body. As sick and horrible as this is, Tara could be anywhere if this was done to her. But in this case on tv, they did find the remains and it lead to the killer.

I know that this has been talked about before and that it was discussed that one of the poi's purchased some of this chemical but I don't know this for a fact. all jmo.

Gary Hilton did not seem to have the same finesse as those who have taken Jennifer and Tara, but I could be mistaken.

Short of getting a hit off of the DNA on the glove, what do we have left to pick apart that might be helpful? Any chance another search would make sense?

 

[LillyRush]

I didn't see the 48 hrs recap, but I saw it when it originally aired and read the subsequent articles about it. It was nice to see both Jennifer Kesse's and Tara's case given air time again, but I don't think there is a connection. I really think that Jennifer's disappearance is connected to either one or more of the construction workers or someone who was able to obtain access to the building via the construction workers.

There would have to be something huge to develop in order for me to see a connection...like Tara's landlord saying that he used the same day labor construction employees or something. I also don't think there's a connection to Gary Hilton. He seemed to target people in isolated areas and neither one of their cases fits that profile. It's 3 years later and I still feel the same way as far as Tara's case. I believe either MH or someone else of personal significance in Tara's life was responsible, mainly leaning more towards MH or maybe his (ex?) girlfriend.

 

[concernedperson]

I didn't see the 48 hrs recap, but I saw it when it originally aired and read the subsequent articles about it. It was nice to see both Jennifer Kesse's and Tara's case given air time again, but I don't think there is a connection. I really think that Jennifer's disappearance is connected to either one or more of the construction workers or someone who was able to obtain access to the building via the construction workers.

There would have to be something huge to develop in order for me to see a connection...like Tara's landlord saying that he used the same day labor construction employees or something. I also don't think there's a connection to Gary Hilton. He seemed to target people in isolated areas and neither one of their cases fits that profile. It's 3 years later and I still feel the same way as far as Tara's case. I believe either MH or someone else of personal significance in Tara's life was responsible, mainly leaning more towards MH or maybe his (ex?) girlfriend.

I am pretty sure that GBI doesn't see a connection to the two abductions either. It was worth a shot to go to Orlando and check it out but I believe the same as you....personal significance in Tara's case and a construction worker in Jenn's case.

Both seemingly are taking so long to solve.

 

[LillyRush]

I can see what you're saying about the "look". But I just wanted to clarify that Tara was actually renting a single family home in a neighborhood with similar homes. She wasn't in a big condo-conversion type apartment complex like Jennifer Kesse. Tara's suburbia neighbors seemed to be all up in her business practically 24/7, yet during some of the most important hrs of Tara's life apparently nobody was paying attention. I'm trying not to digress on this and get myself riled up, but I recall various people claiming they remember seeing this car and that car that belonged to this guy or another just on various random days. It's too odd that no one saw anything of importance that one night. All of that, in relation to Tara, is that any local who saw anything is possibly either afraid of or trying to protect someone who is known within the local community. (IMO)

Back to Jennifer for a second: I think it would be easier to come and go nearby a big apartment/condo complex, especially with construction work going on. Plus, generally, you don't know all your neighbors or their friends/family when living in an apartment or condo. So, it's trickier to point someone out as not belonging there. You never know if it could be someone's son or daughter or a friend who doesn't visit very much. I personally am a pretty vigilant person and have even been viewed as rude sometimes when not automatically holding a secured apartment/condo door open for someone. But, not everyone is like that. In fact, just today when I came home from work one of the secured door leading to the side street here was left wide open (and I closed it lol).

You could be right about them being approached near their cars. But, I think (if anything) that may be where the similarities end. Personally, I'm not necessarily convinced that either one of them left their homes willingly.

You seem to be hinting at the construction workers. As I have said I am not familiar with these cases except what I saw on the show but I have a question. One thing I noted about the areas these girls lived in was that they appeared to be upper middle class apartment buildings. Not so exclusive that a stranger would stand out, but exclusive enough that people would note dress etc. on any stranger. IOW a man hanging around driving a beater truck and dressed in jeans is going to stand out. Wouldn't you think?

-snipped your post for space-

 

[Esah]

They showed a photo taken by Google of the Mall at the Inauguration on tv yesterday. We know that our govt has access to real time pictures of what any of us here or abroad are doing. Wouldn't it be nice if we could just access Google Earth images of 10-22-05 and see how Tara really left her home that night?

Just wishful thinking I guess. But if you think of the expense so far on Tara's case, I would think this would cost a lot less and be a lot more accurate.

 

[dearmont]

Unfortunately, Google Maps imagery is not taken continuously and the probability that an overhead was taken on the day Tara went missing is very slim - however, other satellite imagery systems may have such as SPOT or GOESS - I'll look into what they have cataloged for that time frame - it's a long - long shot but worth looking into. Several of these systems also offer multi-spectral imagery that can be used to detect "anomolies" in the ground - ie clandestine gravesites. I find that maps.live.com has better and more up to date imagery than Google and you can generally get 360 degree views of an area.

 

[Esah]

Wow Dearmont, you sure do know a lot about this. Thanks for the info. I sure hope that some image was caught, but it doesn't look very likely by what you said. I think I was dreaming when I wrote my post, it was just a wish I guess. I am going to check out the other site.

 

[Bookthem2]

Hi I am new here. I have been studying Tara's case for a while now...I am not a police or investigator, how-ever I have given a lot of thoughts, hopefully it would spark some new directions to Tara's case. One reason I am more interested in her case is because I myself had a similar situation as hers when I was young, but I was able to get out of that situation by the skin of my teeth. Since then I had agreed with my inner self, I would never let this happen to me or anyone else if at all possible.
Now this is what I know..She went to the festival, went to a dinner then came home.

This is some of my own ideas..but they are just my own thoughts/feelings oh yes!..I am not a perfect writer... Sorry!
..........................................................................................

besides the regular stuff they found..
Car door unloched.....Car seat pulled back...Nothing looking like a fight happened!
Looks like she just up and left....Dog barking all night/Natural happening....
Telephone calls from HD....
Light shade tipped, broken found necklace on floor.
ect ect...

1st idea:
Tara was heading home and someone stopped her to talk to her.
I personally don't think she came home, her car did but an impostor dressed in her cloths was the one who got to her house.

I think maybe someone drugged her in some food she ate or drank before she got home and just could not make it all the way and that is where they took her and she went missing. This is why Tara could not make it to the door for HD and why he left his card there.
2nd
Tara did make it home after she met someone...they followed her home not accidentally with an intention and then maybe an argument happened and by fault she was hit and knocked out or the drugs she took made her very sick and she just went down not to be revived.
It makes since because Tara's dog was not barking until later that evening into the morning.

They got rid of her body to the near abandoned building, later on removing it to a disclosed area.

One thing I know is MH was around and riding with another cop...don't know if he did this..but with the time span and time laps with HD heading her way it could have been fixed to make it look like HD made Tara go missing.

Like I said, I don't know but with all of my thinking this out, he would make a good person for this because, he is a tactfully trained and works as a undercover type guy with the military....He would know all the moves and working in the dark so no-one would find him or the evidence.I don't trust a side sitting turn your face type of person either..being his face is on the net...What did he have to hide that day? His hands or his face form maybe a by stander during Tara's disappearance? who knows.

Remember a glove was dropped there...and her dog was barking maybe his hand was hit by a dog tooth or something like makeup that does not come off very good and he wanted his hand more then his face to hide? Just my way of wondering not the facts folks!I would bet he knows a Little about cover up for Case investigation type settings.....But then again, the others probably know that trick also.


Then again Doc "Gaddis" is another one!! His alligator eating..and affair with Tara and his on call work schedule could have given him plenty of time to do a little trouble in the background.
Seeing when you work in the health field all your life, You know every angle and every lie a person can give...On call schedules are very easy to work around ......believe me!An on call schedule does not cancel any plans if you know how to work around them even if you are a few miles away from the planned activity!

I think HD was being set up!

So you are seeing my way of thinking by now who I feel could be behind Tara's dissapearance.....Not just yet folks!

Through a little investigating:
I found one person was being looked by police in the next county, he was said to be heading for Florida because of friends or relitives..He left about the time Tara went missing and he also was a felon and a rapist.This is just about where the Kess'es case happened.
Same time schedule also just about.
.................................................................................................
I also found very recently another man who they figured killed possibly two kids, one in Michigan and one in Alibama..The police say he is a child serial killer and does his deeds every two years.....
They figured August 2005 could be the next time, but it did not happen, however..Tara went missing Ocotober of 2005 and the man is still wanted and being looked for.Maybe he went through the area and Tara was his victum, being she worked with kids and in a school..he may have been hanging out at the abandoned house. He even had mud on his car like that which was found on Tara's car and drove a white vehicle and Dark Grey truck seen at the two different cases.. This Guy changes with the times and wind I see maybe possibly with who he makes his victims? also

Was there not a dark truck speeding through town seen that night? Even dark Grey can look like the color black in different situations.

I can see a few scenarios with this idea.

I still feel the doctor and Tara's Neighbor look formiliar...... I don't know why...Maybe they look like someone I have seen in a wanted poster or web site somewhere a long the line and now a days anyone can redo their face, name change and body, teeth to look like a all new person.It is a scary world out there today!

These are just some of my ideas and just 1/4 a 1/4 of that.
The others in her case could very well be the persons wanted ..I have typed enough..I hope this gets your thinking caps on and to really dig deep.


This is a very deep case and nothing should be left out from it!

PS!
Hey yeah Satelite!..I know about all about those spy watchers.....I know a guy who can and who is a proffessional at this ...worked with a national known military base and Nasa and worked with this stuff//Googles maps is baby stuff compared to what he knows! ...It's kind of interesting knowing you have eye's in the sky and that is all I will say! I hope they do use this technique in the future including that of DNA to capture wanted persons.

 

[Mysterylover]

It's my opinion this guy hid Tara in the vacant house so he could QUICKLY get back to his alibi that night...

IMO, Possibly the next day, or when he could 'get away', he removed her body from the house and set it on fire to destroy all evidence.

Each suspect should account for every hour of their time before and after Tara disappeared and the building burned..

Someone is a cold blooded murderer..

 

[searchlight]

I'm new to learning about this case, and after viewing the 48 Hours video and reading everything on this board, I have some questions and comments:

Did MH work for Blackwater as a contractor in Iraq? Some of these folks have seemed to believe they are above the law, according to several incidents in Iraq. Just speculating.

I noticed HD wearing gloves during evidence gathering. If there is a bite mark on the latex glove found in Tara's yard (as some have speculated), it would be interesting to note whether HD had wounds. Did MH assist with the search in the early days, and if so, same question?

I see that LG has a specialty in geriatrics. Is it true that the glove was traced to a batch at the senior center (which served as HQ inthe search)?

Has the next door neighbor with a key to Tara's house been cleared of all suspicion?

Trying to be an equal opportunity 'wonderer' -- the cast of players is intriguing and troubling.

TIA to anyone able to address these issues.

 

[Curious J]

I've been following Tara's case off and on from the beginning. I go to and fro on who may be responsible. It's difficult for me to think as some do that almost everyone in Ocilla knows what happened, but are scared to come forth.

I think the biggest problem with the whole investigation is that Tara departmentalized her life. Also, I questioned the thinking that GBI knows what happened and is just waiting. I really think this is a cold case now, and the person(s) who did it has not been scrutinized or even know-of.