George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 2

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So the paramedic that looked at GF in 2019 can testify about what kind of drugs, how much, and timing of taking those drugs, and that GF's BP was 216/162.

Thoughts on the 216/162 blood pressure? I know it's extremely high, and if it was myself or family member, I'd be going to a doc immediately, but I know we have professionals or lots here with personal experience, so looking for others thoughts?

And we are sure it was untreated BP? I don't recall any drugs in his system that indicate that he was taking any kind of prescribed medications for high blood pressure.
Extremely high blood pressure.
Normal is 120/80 mmhg.
The diastolic is the second measurement- that is the pressure when the heart is at rest.
His was dangerous.
He should have been on an antihypertensive but, as you state, none was located in his tox screen post mortem.
And he was engaged in sports, was he not? That is additional pressure.
 
Extremely high blood pressure.
Normal is 120/80 mmhg.
The diastolic is the second measurement- that is the pressure when the heart is at rest.
His was dangerous.
He should have been on an antihypertensive but, as you state, none was located in his tox screen post mortem.
And he was engaged in sports, was he not? That is additional pressure.

If someone with chronic hypertension also uses caffeine, nicotine and methamphetamine, that would further increase their cardiovascular risk, IMO.

Facts About Hypertension | cdc.gov

Hypertensive emergency - Wikipedia
 
If someone with chronic hypertension also uses caffeine, nicotine and methamphetamine, that would further increase their cardiovascular risk, IMO.

Facts About Hypertension | cdc.gov

Hypertensive emergency - Wikipedia
It could whereas cannabis would likely lower it..
A lot of men self medicate, I notice.
Unfortunately these readings mean little to them, particularly if they have no symptoms of discomfort.
They feel just fine.
Asymptomatic, if it works, don't fix it is the attitude.
The unfortunate thing about a lot of heart disease is that it is silent.
He was in more danger engaging in athletic sports than the small quantity of drugs consumed in his system at the time of his death IMO.

That is assuming the hypertensive state was a constant and not a reactive intermittent thing.

It's all guesswork without his full HIPAA release.
One swallow does not a summer make..
He took a lot more exercise than I do from what I gather, his muscles were well developed... he looked to be in good shape, not all flab and beer.

I have very low B/P
I did a stress test a few years ago and they kept sending my B?P up higher and higher on a machine while making me talk, when they got it to what I consider dangerously high, I was really quite surprised to notice I didn't feel any different at all.
I may have been warmer, but that was all.
 
Extremely high blood pressure.
Normal is 120/80 mmhg.
The diastolic is the second measurement- that is the pressure when the heart is at rest.
His was dangerous.
He should have been on an antihypertensive but, as you state, none was located in his tox screen post mortem.
And he was engaged in sports, was he not? That is additional pressure.

Yes, I believe his girlfriend said he liked to play sports. I knew that he had high blood pressure in the 2019 arrest, but I didn't know it was THAT high.

I don't think this was his normal, walking around, every day BP, but it was after a very similar situation though. JMO
 
So, is the police union paying the entire cost of the defense?

And the 27 million? How much of that is the union paying?

I'm so tired of people like Chauvin...... This trial isn't going to be over quick enough for me. I'm ready for Chauvin to get the consequences for his actions. Then maybe he'll reap what he's sewn and have three inmates sit on and kneel on him for 9 plus minutes.

I'm ready to move onto the trials for the remaining officers.
Has anybody ever seen him demonstrate the slightest hint of remorse at all?
Is it just all about saving himself now.

He never even tried. He knew.
1.17 here
 
Where they trained that 'if they can talk, they can breathe'. I wonder if a medical professional taught them that.
People with life threatening asthma attacks come into emergency rooms saying 'I can't breathe'. They can give their names and what medications they are on. It would be terrible if they were told 'If you can speak, you can breathe, you must be lying'. I am sure everyone would agree that that would be monstrous.
Sadly, I can speak directly to this. My mother died when I was 4- of asthma. She had bruises on her face from how tightly she was holding onto her oxygen mask,, before she went comatose and died a few hours later. I know she was able to talk right before she left for the hospital because she told me she was going to get help so she could come home and take care of me. So I'll freely admit that this case has been a big trigger for me, and that I cannot find ANY excuses for Chauvin. JMO.
 
Dixie,will you relist them please, if you don't mind?


From media thread... MN - George Floyd, 46, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 **Media & Timeline - NO DISCUSSION
POTENTIAL CHARGE GUIDELINES

609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
Subdivision 1.Intentional murder
RSBM not relevant
Subd. 2.Unintentional murders.

Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

(2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.19

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.195

609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

(b) Whoever, without intent to cause death, proximately causes the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $40,000, or both.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.205

609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:

(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another; or

(2) by shooting another with a firearm or other dangerous weapon as a result of negligently believing the other to be a deer or other animal; or

(3) by setting a spring gun, pit fall, deadfall, snare, or other like dangerous weapon or device; or

(4) by negligently or intentionally permitting any animal, known by the person to have vicious propensities or to have caused great or substantial bodily harm in the past, to run uncontrolled off the owner's premises, or negligently failing to keep it properly confined; or

(5) by committing or attempting to commit a violation of section 609.378 (neglect or endangerment of a child), and murder in the first, second, or third degree is not committed thereby.

If proven by a preponderance of the evidence, it shall be an affirmative defense to criminal liability under clause (4) that the victim provoked the animal to cause the victim's death.

Article discussing charges at VERIFY: Derek Chauvin faces three charges in George Floyd's death | kare11.com
 
I've read the charges, more than once, but I'm trying to wait to decide where I would fall in the end. The defense hasn't even started their case, yet were able to make some very good and valid points with the prosecution witnesses. Will we see the same with State and defense witnesses? possibly.

The way I am feeling right now ... I think it may come down to closing arguments. JMO

Where can I find the proposed jury instructions??? I know I have read them in the past few weeks, but searched the media thread and don't see them? TIA


The "entire" jury instructions are not in the media thread... only the part that the prosecution wants changes. (I assume all here have seen such, so not bumping... still now answer from the court as to their submission the day of the supreme court verdict...)

Perhaps someone else is more familiar with google and can get what is the template that may change .. for this state?
 
So, is the police union paying the entire cost of the defense?

And the 27 million? How much of that is the union paying?

I'm so tired of people like Chauvin...... This trial isn't going to be over quick enough for me. I'm ready for Chauvin to get the consequences for his actions. Then maybe he'll reap what he's sewn and have three inmates sit on and kneel on him for 9 plus minutes.

I'm ready to move onto the trials for the remaining officers.


IIRC @Cubby, the city is paying such as to the 27 million. The union was not being sued MOO.

That had nothing to do with the union and lawyers and a 27 million dollar verdict to union/his lawyer who was representing him MOO.
 


I will add this as I have found that most do not differ the charges as to the law. I will double post here and there.

From media thread... MN - George Floyd, 46, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 **Media & Timeline - NO DISCUSSION
POTENTIAL CHARGE GUIDELINES

609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
Subdivision 1.Intentional murder
RSBM not relevant
Subd. 2.Unintentional murders.

Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

(2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.19

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.195

609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

(b) Whoever, without intent to cause death, proximately causes the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $40,000, or both.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.205

609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:

(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another; or

(2) by shooting another with a firearm or other dangerous weapon as a result of negligently believing the other to be a deer or other animal; or

(3) by setting a spring gun, pit fall, deadfall, snare, or other like dangerous weapon or device; or

(4) by negligently or intentionally permitting any animal, known by the person to have vicious propensities or to have caused great or substantial bodily harm in the past, to run uncontrolled off the owner's premises, or negligently failing to keep it properly confined; or

(5) by committing or attempting to commit a violation of section 609.378 (neglect or endangerment of a child), and murder in the first, second, or third degree is not committed thereby.

If proven by a preponderance of the evidence, it shall be an affirmative defense to criminal liability under clause (4) that the victim provoked the animal to cause the victim's death.

Article discussing charges at VERIFY: Derek Chauvin faces three charges in George Floyd's death | kare11.com
 
IIRC @Cubby, the city is paying such as to the 27 million. The union was not being sued MOO.

That had nothing to do with the union and lawyers and a 27 million dollar verdict to union/his lawyer who was representing him MOO.

Here is more information about the Minnesota Police Union legal defense fund. Police officers opt to pay into the fund, to receive legal representation of they need it, if I have understood correctly.

Legal Defense Fund

Here are the lawyers listed for the Minnesota Police Union. I don't think that they are all working on the DC case. They have other private work, and possibly other separate officers to defend for the union (MOO). Judge Cahill's statements about Nelson not having a team of lawyers to file briefings for him etc., supports this IMO.

Attorneys
 
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So the paramedic that looked at GF in 2019 can testify about what kind of drugs, how much, and timing of taking those drugs, and that GF's BP was 216/162.

Thoughts on the 216/162 blood pressure? I know it's extremely high, and if it was myself or family member, I'd be going to a doc immediately, but I know we have professionals or lots here with personal experience, so looking for others thoughts?

And we are sure it was untreated BP? I don't recall any drugs in his system that indicate that he was taking any kind of prescribed medications for high blood pressure.

I had eclampsia during the birth of my daughter. My BP was as high as this and I had grand mal seizures and beforehand, I felt extrememly unwell. I was extremely nausious and I lost vision. Walking around with such a high BP I would think he would have felt very unwell enough to seek medical care. That is JMO. I do not know if there are people who can function with such a high BP and not feel it.
 
Has anybody ever seen him demonstrate the slightest hint of remorse at all?
Is it just all about saving himself now.

He never even tried. He knew.
1.17 here
I don't think he's ever expressed any remorse or even the slightest bit of concern immediately following the incident. Thao told investigators that they didn't even talk about it after Floyd was rushed to the hospital and pronounced dead. Chauvin didn't say a word about it, and neither one seemed the least bit concerned. He knew he was guilty because he didn't report to his supervisor that he had used his knee until he had to. Even then he didn't say how long they had restrained him or that Floyd had repeatedly said he couldn't breathe. I don't think investigators knew the full extent of what they had done until they saw the body cam footage. Imo
 
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