George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin Discussion Thread #10 Mon. July 8

[Candy_Pickletoes]

I don't get how if TM was running, per the 9-11 call, how GZ could have caught him, unless GZ has superhuman speed. Makes no sense imo. If TM wanted to get away he would have, easily imo.

No doubt about that. TM began running before GZ ever even got out of his car. That is one heck of a head start. If TM wanted to keep going he could have. TM circled back, there is no question about that. MOO IMO IMHO and all that jazz.

 

[Just K]

IMO, the, jury wants to keep going because they know that each defense witness will be on the stand for a long time. They have chosen to set aside a break two times now. M O'M wanted a break and they did not. Whatever it means it is interesting. IMO

 

[cityslick]

Exactly my point! They would not carry at all if they had not made a PLAN to use it when THEY make the decision it is necessary.

Where is the evidence that shows that GZ has a history of using his weapon as a means of getting into a confrontation?

 

[Just Sailing Thru]

I like thhis current witness, the male PA, he sounds very thoughtful and sinsere to me and imo

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Exactly my point! They would not carry at all if they had not made a PLAN to use it when THEY make the decision it is necessary.

IN your opinion...
Carrying a gun for protection is not making a plan to use it. IT is learning to use a firearm and keeping it on you for protection, in the bounds of the law. But it does not at all mean they ever plan to use it.

Most always hope they never do. Just like police...

OMO

 

[Horace Finklestein]

or if it became such an immediate threat, call 911 EMERGENCY with that phone in his hand. I'm amazed at the benefit of the doubt given to Zimmerman and not an ounce to a dead teenager, the victim. Just amazed and saddened. IMHO.

TM has had nothing but the benefit of the doubt from the obscene media stunts with photos, misconstruing facts, race, etc. GZ and his defense team has received death threats, etc. This is all about emotion. Thankfully the trial, despite the judge's bias, is showing us the facts. GZ will walk free imo.

 

[cityslick]

I just wonder what GZ would have done/reported/etc. if this was a female instead of a male. Same clothing style, same mannerisms, etc., but a girl. I bet he would have kept on driving. Why was Trayvon Martin so suspicious to him that he felt the need to CHASE HIM?! IMO.

And I agree... that GZ couldn't have been so fearful and suspicious since he didn't call the emergency line. Just like he couldn't have been so terribly injured or in fear of being injured that he didn't get seen at the hospital that night. JMO.

The benefit of the doubt should go to the victim (the dead one), not the person who killed them, until that person proves why they killed them. Just like many think the prosecution did not prove their case, GZ's defense has not provided enough to prove theirs either so far. IMO

But the defense doesn't have to prove theirs. If the prosecution haven't proved their case, he's aquitted.

If it was a female it probably would of been different, but I think that goes more to the fact that society has indoctrined to us that short girls are usually not capable of committing a crime/violence, when we know that is not the case.

Was it short girls who would doing the home break ins in his neighborhood? If it was, maybe he would of been suspicious.

 

[claudicici]

I'm just curious why those who believe that GZ kept on pursuing TM why they think that when GZ is heard saying Okay upon the suggestion that he didn't need to continue doing that. Why are those certain that he contradicted himself by saying okay and then keep going and the noise of wind/air that I heard stopped after he said okay.


Just an honest question as I really would like to hear the thoughts about that.

it clearly does not stop after he says ok. It continues.

 

[Chester_from_THM]

I'm just curious why those who believe that GZ kept on pursuing TM why they think that when GZ is heard saying Okay upon the suggestion that he didn't need to continue doing that. Why are those certain that he contradicted himself by saying okay and then keep going and the noise of wind/air that I heard stopped after he said okay.


Just an honest question as I really would like to hear the thoughts about that.

Plausible deniability.

IMO, the whole interaction with the NEN dispatcher was setting up TM to sound suspicious and GZ to sound compliant.

 

[SuperTmo]

I'm just curious why those who believe that GZ kept on pursuing TM why they think that when GZ is heard saying Okay upon the suggestion that he didn't need to continue doing that. Why are those certain that he contradicted himself by saying okay and then keep going and the noise of wind/air that I heard stopped after he said okay.


Just an honest question as I really would like to hear the thoughts about that.

I think this because 1) he refused to give his location to the dispatcher, and instead requested they CALL him, even though he said he would wait for the police to arrive. That indicated to me that he had NO INTENTION of returning to his truck and waiting. It's like the mom asking the kid to take out the trash, "sure mom..."

2) GZ said OK he'd stop following him, and he sure sounded like he returned to his truck... so why was he so far away shooting some kid in the grass, instead of sitting in his truck? I've always thought he got back in his truck and then as SOON as the call was disconnected he set out in hot pursuit of Trayvon.

3) He wasn't going to let this one get away... Hero complex or something?

4) The above is MOO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I just wonder what GZ would have done/reported/etc. if this was a female instead of a male. Same clothing style, same mannerisms, etc., but a girl. I bet he would have kept on driving. Why was Trayvon Martin so suspicious to him that he felt the need to CHASE HIM?! IMO.

And I agree... that GZ couldn't have been so fearful and suspicious since he didn't call the emergency line. Just like he couldn't have been so terribly injured or in fear of being injured that he didn't get seen at the hospital that night. JMO.

The benefit of the doubt should go to the victim (the dead one), not the person who killed them, until that person proves why they killed them. Just like many think the prosecution did not prove their case, GZ's defense has not provided enough to prove theirs either so far. IMO

Just all supposition. I bet if there was a girl out there standing in the rain he would have reported that too. Because she could be a look out...

For me I only care what the evidence shows..

OMO

 

[Chester_from_THM]

IMO, there is no one who could tell definitively whose voice that is.

I don't find anyone on either side believable. Not that I think they are lying, they are non-objective witnesses.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

it clearly does not stop after he says ok. It continues.

IN YOUR OPINION...

There is no clearly. If there was we most likely would not be here. There is just as much evidence that he could have stopped at that point.. OMO

 

[SuperTmo]

But the defense doesn't have to prove theirs. If the prosecution haven't proved their case, he's aquitted.

If it was a female it probably would of been different, but I think that goes more to the fact that society has indoctrined to us that short girls are usually not capable of committing a crime/violence, when we know that is not the case.

Was it short girls who would doing the home break ins in his neighborhood? If it was, maybe he would of been suspicious.

BUT.... He doesn't deny killing Trayvon... he has to prove that it was self defense, just like JA had to (failed to), right? JA had to prove self defense if she were to get acquitted, because there was no doubt she killed Travis, correct? Is the law different in Florida? It might be, I'm curious.

Was it ever proven black males were doing the break ins? As in caught the perps? Or did he just assume it was black males? I can't recall.

 

[MouseTheLuckyDog]

You left out the part that TM might have started the fight. IMO, it's sad that not every teen knows that if he/she starts a fight, he/she could be shot if someone is defending their life with a CCW.

Strange when I took martial arts classes, people made a point not to get a fight. In one book I read the author said the minute you use karate it becomes a matter of life or death. Some one told me that when streetfighters make mistakes they wind up in the hospital, so they tend to be very good. I got the same message over and over a hundred times. Go why wasn't TM told it's not a good idea to start street fights.

This is why I caution my son who lives in FL to be cool/calm when someone cuts him off in traffic, because he doesn't know who is carrying. IMO

Everyone on the road is carrying. Not necessarily a gun or rifle, but definitely a two ton weapon.

 

[cityslick]

IMO, there is no one who could tell definitively whose voice that is.

I don't find anyone on either side believable. Not that I think they are lying, they are non-objective witnesses.

Correct, then we go to who had more reason to yell. The guy on the bottom getting hit, where there is evidence (injuries) and testimony (JG) that shows it was GZ, or the guy on top delivering shots, where there is evidence it was TM (lack of injuries, location and direction of shot) and testimony (JG).

 

[Nymeria]

I am sure about 20 of you have said/asked this already, I am trying to speed read to get caught up here....

Why did this old couple take GZ out and buy him suits?
Did he not have a good chunk of change banked from his donation website?
I would think he could afford to do this himself.

Just wondering, if DT or PT asked why I missed it.

 

[Lovelymountains]

Me either and I wanted to be. After all the broohaha in the initial days and weeks after the event, I thought for sure they would be able to support M2. But I don't see it. I don't see a willful disregard for human life at all, I certainly don't see an act of ill will and avarice.

After looking at the evidence and using what the pros witnesses said, I find that Rachel puts TM at his dad's gf house and then he is 70 yards away again. And that shows an assertion on his part to me. He had something in mind.. Where I feel that GZ was really walking around in the dark where he was, near his car and waiting for Police when he was attacked.
It is the only way it works for me. I have tried it the other way.. GZ did not know where TM was going so if he was really following him he would have gotten him right there at the dad's gf's house. I think it proves that GZ was not following him closely at that point. He had lost sight of him as he said he did.

I want the prosecution to prove something else but they have not. They can not. So so far I could not vote guilty.

OMO

TM's friend, Rachel, also said that immediately after TM told her TM was in the back yard of the townhouse where he was staying, that she heard TM ask someone, presumably GZ, why he was following him and she heard another person, again presumably GZ since we know of no one else in the area, ask TM what he was doing there. So, IMO, that also puts GZ in back of TM's father's girlfriend's townhouse. So we are left with the question of why and how did they end up 70 yards away. IMO GZ forced TM, possibly at gunpoint, to accompany him back in the direction of his vehicle intending to hold him until LE arrived, and at the point of TM's death, he attempted to escape and was shot. Since, if one believes one thing that RJ said, one probably would believe another, i.e. TM arrived in back of the townhouse where he was staying as did GZ, and she heard GZ's voice in back of the house where TM was staying. IMO.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

or if it became such an immediate threat, call 911 EMERGENCY with that phone in his hand. I'm amazed at the benefit of the doubt given to Zimmerman and not an ounce to a dead teenager, the victim. Just amazed and saddened. IMHO.

Because just because some one is the one who died that does not mean they were not the aggressor. His age means nothing to me as it relates to the case. I have seen many teens younger than that be more vicious than men twice their age and even size.

My benefit has to go to the one on trial for murder until they prove to me he did it. That is how the system works. We are innocent until PROVEN guilty.. Not the other way around.

With the evidence the state provided they have only proven to me that GZ's account is more than likely correct.

OMO

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I just wonder what GZ would have done/reported/etc. if this was a female instead of a male. Same clothing style, same mannerisms, etc., but a girl. I bet he would have kept on driving. Why was Trayvon Martin so suspicious to him that he felt the need to CHASE HIM?! IMO.

And I agree... that GZ couldn't have been so fearful and suspicious since he didn't call the emergency line. Just like he couldn't have been so terribly injured or in fear of being injured that he didn't get seen at the hospital that night. JMO.

The benefit of the doubt should go to the victim (the dead one), not the person who killed them, until that person proves why they killed them. Just like many think the prosecution did not prove their case, GZ's defense has not provided enough to prove theirs either so far. IMO

TM is not a victim if he started the fight, which imo all evidence says he did. If someone is punching you and hitting your head on concrete, it's not as if you wouldn't be scared, regardless of how bad your injuries were, and for all GZ knew, he would keep getting injured.

There's no evidence GZ chased TM, and I wonder if TM would have rained blows upon GZ if GZ were a female. Jmo.