George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #5

[m00c0w]

so would it be normal to carry your gun like this w/ one in the chamber and no safety on??

I personally would not because I don't find it comfortable. But yes.

 

[sacrablue]

Actually Mora said he was holding his head and confused.

calling 911 and talking coherently with residence and police....

 

[Lovelymountains]

The other witnesses didn't see or hear half of what JG saw. But yet somehow they are more credible.

Yes. IMO

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Trying to quote MissMazzy (I hope I spelled that right) but it won't let me!

Quote: "Let me get this straight...you would have lain there and let the beating continue and not defend yourself? You're a better person than I am."

I never said that. I would have continued to defend myself with the same force that was being used against me... it was a fist fight. There wasn't a need for a gun at that point. George knew the neighbors were responding. He knew 911 was quickly on their way. I would have done my best to not pulled my weapon until I knew there was literally no other option. He shot TM within 3 minutes of hanging up w/ the police. ANd part of that time he needed to catch up w/ Trayvon. I carry my weapon on me and would absolutely use it if the situation warranted it. The injuries GZ sustained did not warrant the use of deadly force, IMO.

But GZ brought a gun to a fist fight that he caused. When you carry a loaded weapon, it is your responsibility to avoid causing confrontations, because that leads to the possibility of using that weapon. You aren't supposed to get more ballsy because you are armed. GZ caused that confrontation, and then when he was at the disadvantage, he used his weapon. He went after TM instead of remaining in his vehicle. He didn't have to do that. He did not have to approach TM, which I believe he did.

BBM, could you provide a link for that claim?

 

[Nymeria]

When ya'll get to a break in this trial today, I think anyone interested in the "confront/question" or "self-defense" issues might be interested in this case:

http://5newsonline.com/2013/06/27/suspect-in-custody-in-fort-smith-double-homicide/

Two men are dead after being attacked by a man armed with a machete at a Fort Smith home, according to police.

According to court documents, Kinsey said he was walking back from the Dollar Store when he thought he saw a person who used to date his mother. While looking through a backyard, Kinsey said he was confronted by three people who wanted to know why he was there.
Kinsey and the victims exchanged words and Kinsey pulled out a machete to warn them, the documents state.
Kinsey told police he didn’t think the men would let him go so he started swinging the machete, striking two of them. The men backed away, but Kinsey told police he pursued them and hit one of them in the alley, according to court documents.

LOL... who carries a machete around, or goes to the Dollar store armed with one?
This frickin' world is crazy :scared:

 

[m00c0w]

calling 911 and talking coherently with residence and police....

When did Zimmerman call 911? Source?

 

[cityslick]

Trying to quote MissMazzy (I hope I spelled that right) but it won't let me!

Quote: "Let me get this straight...you would have lain there and let the beating continue and not defend yourself? You're a better person than I am."

I never said that. I would have continued to defend myself with the same force that was being used against me... it was a fist fight. There wasn't a need for a gun at that point. George knew the neighbors were responding. He knew 911 was quickly on their way. I would have done my best to not pulled my weapon until I knew there was literally no other option. He shot TM within 3 minutes of hanging up w/ the police. ANd part of that time he needed to catch up w/ Trayvon. I carry my weapon on me and would absolutely use it if the situation warranted it. The injuries GZ sustained did not warrant the use of deadly force, IMO.

But GZ brought a gun to a fist fight that he caused. When you carry a loaded weapon, it is your responsibility to avoid causing confrontations, because that leads to the possibility of using that weapon. You aren't supposed to get more ballsy because you are armed. GZ caused that confrontation, and then when he was at the disadvantage, he used his weapon. He went after TM instead of remaining in his vehicle. He didn't have to do that. He did not have to approach TM, which I believe he did.

BBM

He was on the ground for some time. At what point do you think it would of been appropriate to take the gun out? 1 minute? 5? You say GZ knew the neighbors were coming. How do you know this? If you've been screaming for 40+ seconds in what seems like eternity, how long must you wait before you do something about it? You say he caused the confrontation, if he simply asked him who TM was, that in your eyes is 'causing the confrontation'?

 

[polleypockets]

You're quoting GZ's version of events; i.e., a TM quote via GZ -- but you omitted the quotes immediately before it.

They went like this:

"You got a problem?"

"You do now."

“You’re gonna die tonight, motherf****r.”

I guess if we're going to believe GZ quoting TM one time, we may as well believe the other quotes GZ attributes to TM.

yea i think that was sarsasm because tm was shot directly in the heart and could not lift his hands and speak after the shot - and no i do not believe tm said you got me or anything else gz claims he said - and gz also said tm had his hands over his mouth so he couldn't scream, yet gz also says it is him screaming - imo

 

[sacrablue]

Incorrect. They didn't tell him not to follow him. This was covered in testimony by the non emergency 9-11 operator. They do not give instructions.

They just take an address and wish you luck and hang up.

 

[Truth Detector]

Were these the exact photos used in court today? They look a little different here.

Wonder if they're fakes?

ABC News thinks they're real.

Here's the link to one on their site:

Beating Victim​

I don't know if they really believe it, but some folks claim this was inflicted by a shrub, or that GZ did it to himself.

No foolin'...

 

[sacrablue]

When did Zimmerman call 911? Source?

Oriental looking male witness today. Said he offered to dial 911 but GZ said he already had but asked him to call his wife.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

This is evidence of a struggle. Inconclusive IMO of who initiated contact.

BBM

And that is CRITICAL in this case.

Personally, I haven't seen or heard anything yet that makes it "beyond a reasonable doubt" that GZ was not defending himself. The details of the fight are critical, such as who initiated, who was on top of whom for how long and at the point that GZ pulled his gun and shot Trayvon.

Until the State can prove more, if I were on the jury, there's just not enough for me to convict GZ. And that hurts my heart, as I don't know what really transpired. It's a sad case, all the way around.

JMO

 

[mom23gr8kids]

Wonder if they're fakes?

ABC News thinks they're real.

Here's the link to one on their site:

Beating Victim​

I don't know if they really believe it, but some folks think this was inflicted by a shrub, or that GZ did it to himself.

No foolin'...

I think they are real. It came out yesterday in court that a police office took this particular photo on his cell phone for a witness to identify. Surely people don't think the officer doctored the photo.??????

 

[HMSHoney24]

I spent my teenage years in FL. At that time, and it was a long time ago, the name "Cracker" mean a native born Floridian. They sometimes even introduced themselves as that, meaning they were not from elsewhere. It was not a derogatory term at all. I don't know about now, as I left for school when I was 18.

I also grew up in FL. South FL, N.W. Miami area, to be more precise. I lived within the school district where students had to go to Miami Central Senior High School which is in Liberty City. The area, in the 80's, was predominantly African American as was the high school that I went to.

While I have heard of the term "cracker" in the manner in which you explain your relationship with it, trust that I heard myself (and other white students) called MANY derogatory, racially inspired terms such as "cracker" MANY times. At that point in time it WAS considered racial and derogatory and continues to be to this day.

 

[katiewonders]

so would it be normal to carry your gun like this w/ one in the chamber and no safety on??

If GZ's gun was as you describe, I can understand why: he told the dispatcher that the teen was walking toward him and that he had his hand in his waistband. IMO, TM may have done that to intimidate GZ to back the heck off and stop looking at/following him. GZ anticipated the teen might have had a weapon and prepared his gun that way. ALL MHO

 

[AmorAlways]

Oriental looking male witness today. Said he offered to dial 911 but GZ said he already had but asked him to call his wife.

We would have the recording of that 911 call after the shot. I don't think we have proof of calling anyone. He may have been talking about prior to the incident.

 

[polleypockets]

Were these the exact photos used in court today? They look a little different here.

the face shot was yesterday, the le took it to show a witness for an id, the head was today, taken by a neighbor b4 police arrived

 

[nnglas]

Why would they need to be on the stand? Because they called for an investigation in an unarmed man's death? A young man who police didn't even try to identify.

I don't know why you seem so offended that GZ has to suffer through the inconvenience of a trial. I'm sure the feeling is nothing compared to sitting through your deceased sons funeral.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sacrablue]

We would have the recording of that 911 call after the shot. I don't think we have proof of calling anyone. He may have been talking about prior to the incident.

Somebody is telling a fib.

 

[Truth Detector]

When did Zimmerman call 911? Source?

GZ's own statement was that he called non-emergency 911.

The Prosecution already called the actual operator who testified that he spoke with GZ on the night of the beating and shooting.