Girl, 12, 'interrogated' by school staff until she gives up Facebook password

[mysteriew]

But in this case the student urged other students to contact the school, the circumstances don't seem similar to me at all. The disruption stemmed from the other students bombarding the school.

A 12 year old girl saying that so and so is mean and I hate her is something that anyone working in a middle school would have heard many times before. Seems to me there are some thin skinned folks at that school. And maybe this hall monitor was truly picking on this child. Just because she's the adult doesn't automatically make it ok, that the child was forced to apologize for feeling this way doesn't sit well. It seems like there wasn't even any counseling for the girl to see if maybe there was a valid issue. I can recall my kids at that age, if I looked at them crooked at one moment in time i was the wicked witch of the west and tears would flow, at another time there would be no problem. They're middle schoolers, drama and hormones are running high, if adults don't know that or can't handle that then they shouldn't be working in a middle school.

As far as the sex talk, not the school's business either, certainly doesn't warrant the school forcing the student to hand over her fb password.

Unless the school does this to all students on a regular basis, unless the school monitors every student's facebook, myspace and every other social media to make sure that no student ever talks about sex, to make sure that no student ever talks about anyone at the school.

It's a huge leap to say that this child could be the next casey Anthony.

JMHO

BBM

And how about the kid's text messages, phone calls, her notebooks, messages she passes in class and conversations she has both on school grounds and off? Will they demand that conversations with her mother about the school be reported?

Where will the monitoring end?

 

[RoseRed]

Issue #1 she made a facebook comment about a mean monitor
Issue #2 she tried calling out a student for getting her into trouble re: issue 1
Issue #3 a parent made a compliant re: sexual comments made in a facebook message

Being pulled into the principals office was not just because of a comment about a mean monitor, it was about 3 separate facebook issues. moo

ETA - this situation isn't just because she called a monitor mean. To me IMO this shows that she has an attitude of not following the rules. Whatever the facebook rules are, she obviously knew after her punishment from the first incident that she shouldn't make those mistakes again. But instead she took right back to facebook to try and call someone out, bullying someone perhaps. moo

So freedom of speech does not apply to 12 yr olds then?

 

[legalmania]

So when these children grow up ,they are already trained to not speak up or out agaisnt schools,or goverments or injustice because it may lead to them being punished for substantial disruption (a facebook post) and they may be held indefinitly under some new sci fi terrorist law....:waitasec:

So I know I said this before but ,the school is training our children that the constitution does not apply to them.

These kids are the people who will be the next to stand up for our rights and it looks as if they will not have a clue what those rights are , leaving all of us vulnerable to losing them.JMO.

Just getting them ready for corporate America.

 

[mysteriew]

To me part of the issue is should the school have any say so over a child's facebook, my space or twitter? Should they be able to say the child cannot have one? Should they be able to require that they be able to monitor it? Should they have any control over the content?

What if the school made a rule that a child cannot have a facebook? Giving the school the rights to the facebook certainly is a step in that direction. Would that be cool? But what if that child had a parent on the other side of the country or serving overseas and that was the way they kept in contact with them? What if it was a family thing?

There have been questions about why a mother would allow her child to have a facebook. But we don't know how much monitoring this mother does of the FB. Maybe she checks it regularly, but like most parents she cannot check it every hour. So some things might get through, at least until she is able to monitor it again. I notice that no one has commented on the boy who allegedly received the sexual message having a FB.

The girl sending a sexual message to a boy. I'd have to question here. Is this a girl who is maturing (probably a bit earlier than the boy) and confused over our society's messages about sex? She certainly wouldn't be the only one that has ever happened to. Or is she possibly a victim of child abuse, who only knows one way to interact with males? Either way I think that demanding her FB password sends a very wrong message to her about her sexual feelings.

 

[legalmania]

JMO, I don't think there is any evidence that there is any baby killing involved in this case.

All these comparisons equating this MINOR CHILD to famous murderers or adults infamous for throwing their children into the bushes just because she posted on FB are out of line imo.

Those cases all started out with lying, hate and escalated. Casey bragged about what a good liar she was, she was proud of it. Dylan an Eric hated athletes and jocks. These cases all escalated into horrible deaths. Many children are now committing suicide because what is said about them on these social media sites. That to me is out of line.

 

[legalmania]

So freedom of speech does not apply to 12 yr olds then?

Twelve year old's are not suppose to be on FB and many other sites because of a Federal law protecting their information according to FTC. They need to be kids for now.

 

[Donjeta]

Those cases all started out with lying, hate and escalated. Casey bragged about what a good liar she was, she was proud of it. Dylan an Eric hated athletes and jocks. These cases all escalated into horrible deaths. Many children are now committing suicide because what is said about them on these social media sites. That to me is out of line.

That's exactly what I am worried about. That a child would read about herself online and see that she is seen as similar to these people that everybody hates. That her peers read about her online and use the stuff said here to bully her. These random comparisons to evil people for no reason can hurt people and cause some of them to take the desperate way out.

We have no information that this child has bragged about what a good liar she is or is proud of it. So far the only lie of hers I have heard of is that she logged on to FB that requires her to be 13. We have no information that this child hates anybody. We have no information that anybody has been driven to suicide because of her words on social media.
So imo it's not fair to pile all this stuff on her shoulders.

 

[hambirg]

Just jumping in, so I haven't read all 7 previous pages, but I have discussed this issue with my DD16. The question isn't about what was said or if it's a disruption in the classroom, to me it's whether or not the school is entitled to your FB password. And to that I say emphatically no! Just like I wouldn't give my employer my FB password, or my phone pin, or anything else of that nature.

If the issue is serious enough that they feel they need your password then LE should be called. This is what my DD16 and I talked about. Tell the school officials no. They can call LE and when LE arrives she should tell them that she would like an attorney present. Period.

We have a constitution and that shouldn't be taken lightly. Mind you, I expect my children to co-operate and respect authority at school, but asking for personal passwords crosses a line with me. It's a privacy issue.

 

[Donjeta]

Let us be reminded that, while the girl broke the Facebook rules by using the site while under 13, the school did too, and they made her break a further Facebook rule.

You will not solicit login information or access an account belonging to someone else.
..
You will not share your password, (or in the case of developers, your secret key), let anyone else access your account, or do anything else that might jeopardize the security of your account.

http://www.facebook.com/legal/terms

 

[Nova]

If you read the Blue Mountain School District v. J.S. you will find similar circumstances to this case. Below is a summary of the case. I do agree that the mother may be part of the problem here since she didn't seem to do anything as long as her child was the problem but when the school did something to her child then she got involved.

http://www.aclupa.org/legal/legaldocket/jsvbluemountainschooldistr.htm

Thanks, legalmania, but I have trouble seeing how a parody MySpace page purporting to be from the principal himself relates to a private FB conversation about sex. Perhaps a court will enlighten me.

 

[Nova]

Those cases all started out with lying, hate and escalated. Casey bragged about what a good liar she was, she was proud of it. Dylan an Eric hated athletes and jocks. These cases all escalated into horrible deaths. Many children are now committing suicide because what is said about them on these social media sites. That to me is out of line.

I agree, but surely you aren't arguing that everyone who lies will someday shoot up their school. High school is a hot bed of bullying, misbehavior and resentment.

Although schools can and should take steps to protect students on school property (and on the bus, which seems to be where the worst abuse takes place), I don't see how or why they should become divisions of law enforcement and police student behavior at home and at the mall. Surely we'll agree that school administrators have no way to accurately predict which disgruntled students will eventually become violent.

 

[tiredblondy]

This is the key for me-

The girl claims she felt that one of the school's adult hall monitors was picking on her, so she wrote on her Facebook wall that she hated the monitor because she was mean.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ff-gives-Facebook-password.html#ixzz1pVRuDrmZ

I'm sorry my opinion is that there's a lot more to this story than we're being told period.
I can't help but wonder if she didn't say exactly what she'd like to do to the hall monitor for example "blow her brains out" (that was just an example)

As far as the sexual messages I suspect there'a lot we don't know about. I was in the school system for 30 yrs.From what I can determine from the article she has poor supervision at home and has been in trouble a lot. I'm sure her parent/s? were notified previously of the problem and nothing was done.

There's a lot more here than meets the eye and I suspect we will be shocked when we hear the truth...well some of us will be anyway.

 

[Donjeta]

There may be more to the story than we're being told but IMO it's just not fair to make assumptions that are not backed up at this time and hang the girl on the basis of them.

If she had threatened to shoot the hall monitor it would make sense to me that the school involved the police at that time. They didn't, they gave her detention and made her apologize.

 

[kgeaux]

Those cases all started out with lying, hate and escalated. Casey bragged about what a good liar she was, she was proud of it. Dylan an Eric hated athletes and jocks. These cases all escalated into horrible deaths. Many children are now committing suicide because what is said about them on these social media sites. [ /Quote]

This is quite a stretch. We do not know that this girl is a liar. For all we know, her parent set up the FB account for her. We do not have any evidence that this girl has bragged about what a good liar she is. We do not know that this girl hates anyone....saying someone is mean falls far short of hatred. We don't have any evidence that this girl's behavior is escalating into anything that would lead to horrible deaths, or that she has ever said a single thing to cause anyone to contemplate or commit suicide.

I've noticed that the court cases you have cited are all very different from the facts of this case, so different that I am wondering why you think they apply!

Regardless, your concerns in the quoted post seem to be based assumptions, or what-ifs, not on facts.

 

[zippitydoda]

The school should only be involved in things that:
1. Evidence that there is a threat to the child's welfare, such as signs of abuse, neglect, or suicidal ideation
2. Relate directly to the health, safety and welfare of all students and staff.

This child was on FB but that is a parenting issue, not a school issue. Her comment that a staff member was mean to her doesn't sound like much, unless there was more to the story or something we are not hearing. If not, it has nothing to do with the health, safety and welfare of the staff or other students. A call to the parents and a conference with them, the child and possibly the hall monitor would have been in order if the school felt they needed to explore the issue.



What I remember from law school is that the doctrine of unclean hands applies if the plaintiff did not act in good faith.

The fact that this kid went against FB's policy by having a page while underage, would have nothing to do with her complaint against the school, that they humiliated her and breached her 1st amendment rights, rights to privacy, etc.

It would be different, IMO, if she was suing FB for some act.

Bottom line, I think the tactics used against this child, if there is no more to the story of what she posted, were punitive and out of line. There are much bigger things to worry about than a kid posting innocuous comments outside class.

I agree with those who state that if the school came across posts that caused them concern, such as an indication the child was being sexually abused or making threats against another, they should have reported that to the police and left it to the police to investigate. Otherwise, anything less than potentially criminal conduct should have resulted in a call to the parents.

What they did was wrong, IMO. And if they have so much time on their hands to worry about such postings, I believe they are missing much more important things occurring under their noses. Such as real abuse or perhaps failing students, crummy teachers, etc.

This, to me, (with the assumption that there isn't more to the story) is just another example of mediocre bureaucrats who are keeping busy with nonsense because they lack the intelligence to do their actual jobs. :moo:

The same could be said about some parents.

What a precious snowflake we have here. "I want to know who the f%$# told on me,"

If my parents ever heard me talk or write like that when I was twelve, I'd be raking the leaves off the lawn of every house on my block - twice, if I made the mistake of complaining about it.

Maybe the school went a bit far reaching, but how did it get this far in the first place?

 

[menmo]

Snipped by me for space

We have a constitution and that shouldn't be taken lightly. Mind you, I expect my children to co-operate and respect authority at school, but asking for personal passwords crosses a line with me. It's a privacy issue.

I agree and always expected the same of my children. I will add, though, that respect is a two way street. I expect more of an example to be set by an adult who should know better than I do a child, especially the adults in positions of authority. This was bullying plain and simple to me.

The same could be said about some parents.

What a precious snowflake we have here. "I want to know who the f%$# told on me,"

If my parents ever heard me talk or write like that when I was twelve, I'd be raking the leaves off the lawn of every house on my block - twice, if I made the mistake of complaining about it.

Maybe the school went a bit far reaching, but how did it get this far in the first place?

Mine, too, but everyone has a right to parent their child how they choose. While I don't condone this type of talk from a child at all I will say that two wrongs do not make a right. I really believe this child had a hall monitor that for whatever reason was not being a nice person to her, and for whatever her reasons were it was wrong. For goodness sake........who are the adults and who is the child?

MOO

 

[Nova]

Are we now assuming the hall monitor was at fault? I believe that's precisely the problem with our schools that posters (particularly teachers) have been pointing out.

One of the purposes of school should be to teach students that sometimes they have to deal with difficult personalities.

 

[legalmania]

Those cases all started out with lying, hate and escalated. Casey bragged about what a good liar she was, she was proud of it. Dylan an Eric hated athletes and jocks. These cases all escalated into horrible deaths. Many children are now committing suicide because what is said about them on these social media sites. [ /Quote]

This is quite a stretch. We do not know that this girl is a liar. For all we know, her parent set up the FB account for her. We do not have any evidence that this girl has bragged about what a good liar she is. We do not know that this girl hates anyone....saying someone is mean falls far short of hatred. We don't have any evidence that this girl's behavior is escalating into anything that would lead to horrible deaths, or that she has ever said a single thing to cause anyone to contemplate or commit suicide.

I've noticed that the court cases you have cited are all very different from the facts of this case, so different that I am wondering why you think they apply!

Regardless, your concerns in the quoted post seem to be based assumptions, or what-ifs, not on facts.

We do know she said she hated because she said it "
"The girl claims she felt that one of the school's adult hall monitors was picking on her, so she wrote on her Facebook wall that she hated the monitor because she was mean."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ff-gives-Facebook-password.html#ixzz1pWXL3gcs
​

We don't know anything about if she lied because the school has not responded to her complaint yet. I didn't say she lied I'm just saying that she's seems to remain in trouble, with the school. When she said she wanted to know who the F turned her in what did she have in mind , did she want to thank that person? I doubt it. What had the mother of the boy read that had her so upset that she went to the school and demanded they do something? I hope this girl turns out to be just a kid having a hard time adjusting to a new school and she turns out to be a hard working respectful member of society.

I have probably read over 1,000 court cases and no two are alike, what you try to find is that the issue is the same. Did the school violate this girls first and fourth amendment rights? If I was doing a brief and I was defending the school I would use the Blue Mountain case because not only does it favor the school but it sites from the Supreme Court.

 

[legalmania]

Are we now assuming the hall monitor was at fault? I believe that's precisely the problem with our schools that posters (particularly teachers) have been pointing out.

One of the purposes of school should be to teach students that sometimes they have to deal with difficult personalities.

I don't know of the hall monitor doing any wrong, she didn't respond back to her on FB as some teachers have. As far as I know she wasn't in the room where the deputy and the counselor were. As a matter of fact the principal wasn't even present at that incident. I wonder if the principal was there things would have been handled differently.

 

[RoseRed]

Twelve year old's are not suppose to be on FB and many other sites because of a Federal law protecting their information according to FTC. They need to be kids for now.

The federal law protects the child it does NOT prohibit the child from having a Fb account.
This is not the School or Government's business period. It is the parents responsibility and I would be livid if this happened to my grandchildren.
My Grandchildren ALL have FB because that is the way we communicate as we all live in different areas.
At 12 yes they had FB and we all had their passwords and passwords to their email. Their school does not have this info as it is none of their business how our family communicates.

By the way we also have 3 elementary school teachers in out large extended family.