Grand Jury True Bills John & Patsy Discussion thread

[Dragonlady]

OK I am going to go ahead and say this, at the risk of being tarred and feathered.

I realize John and Patsy are still horrid people. They apparently allowed their daughter to be abused. They covered up a horrible crime and in the process they ruined careers of perfectly fine people, threw virtually everyone they knew under the bus and lied and lied and lied. They went on to profit by writing books about this horrible tragedy.

So, I am certainly not changing my overall opinion of them. But, I just have to say, they are slightly, very, very slightly, but it's there, more sympathetic to me than they were yesterday.

They were covering for their only only surviving child. Not for each other. It was still wrong, but parents are generally far from objective when it comes to their children.

Again, I am not saying I like them, or support them. Just that maybe I get the cover up a little more than I did yesterday.

Bring on the villagers and their flames.

I agree with you, they are still horrible people but they did this to protect their son.

 

[rob]

OK, everybody's laying out their scenario, here's mine. I have always thought that BR probably caused JB death, maybe even accidentally. BUT, because JB appeared to have been sexually molested in the past, based on her issue with vaginal infections, maybe her father was the molester and somehow the parents worked that issue out between themselves. When the death happened, and if we call LE, of course an autopsy will be performed and the previous abuse will come out. SO, let's stage a scene, where she is abused with an object, so it will look like that caused any damage to the private areas when found. No doubt they did love this child, and couldn't bear to dump her body on side of the road, but instead wrapped her in a blanket and placed her in the basement, where she would be found quickly and they could bury her and still protect their son.
That's my 2 cents worth, and its all IMO.

 

[McDonough]

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, the Grand Jury believed BR (or whoever was the initial perpetrator) committed FIRST DEGREE murder -- that this was not an accident, this was planned, intentional, premeditated. That is a whopper to digest. And, then they believe that John and Patsy intentionally -- and with knowledge of the crime committed -- covered up a first degree murder of their daughter together. This is truly mind-blowing. What would lead them to believe it was premeditated?!

Since premeditation can be formed in an instant it could be that they believe he lead her to the basement with the intent to kill her. That's enough, I believe, to be considered premeditation.

 

[dodie20]

Can the jurors speak out now?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Jurors wanted child abuse charges against Ramseys

P. SOLOMON BANDA, AP
47 minutes ago

DENVER (AP) — Grand jurors who reviewed evidence in the death of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey indicted both of her parents for child abuse resulting in death and being an accessory to a crime, including first-degree murder, according to documents released Friday.

The Daily Camera reported earlier this year that the grand jury had issued an indictment, but the documents for the first time revealed the charges against the Ramseys. The grand jury accused both John and Patsy Ramsey of helping someone who committed murder, but the document did not identify the alleged killer. The documents alleged both parents intended to delay or prevent the arrest of the alleged killer.

The district attorney at the time, Alex Hunter, who presented the evidence to the grand jury, declined to pursue charges saying: "I and my prosecutorial team believe we do not have sufficient evidence to warrant the filing of charges against anyone who has been investigated at this time."

Only pages that had been signed by the grand jury foreman and were considered official action of the jury were released. The numbering of the charges implies that there were other charges the jurors considered but rejected...

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20131025/US--JonBenet.Lawsuit/?cid=hero_media

 

[ShadyLady]

Just the way Lin Wood planned it. He was the first true shakedown artist. He had the media in his back pocket - they didn't mention Burke - he had Burke cleared as a suspect very early on.

Lin Wood's legacy can be seen today in many of the high-profile cases involving heavy media manipulation. Seventeen years. Just a pitiful shame. RIP JonBenet.

Just curious, do you know other cases Wood was involved with?

And...for anyone: IF it was BR, why didn't JR or PR clean up her body and take rope off her neck? I don't understand that.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Since premeditation can be formed in an instant it could be that they believe he lead her to the basement with the intent to kill her. That's enough, I believe, to be considered premeditation.

Even if he lured her down there to sexually abuse her and killed her to shut her up it would still be first degree murder... If he wasn't 9.



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[Aqua]

I sense some people's disappointment and I am confused..
Finally after 17 yrs,we have a very important group of people saying that they believe
someone in that house killed her and covered it up.
We have waited 17 yrs for someone to publicly tell us something and here it is..
Am I missing something??:dunno:

At first, I was disappointed. I read the 4 pages and went into the kitchen to have a cigarette, as I was sitting there it hit me..It was BR! Takes my brain awhile to process info.:floorlaugh:

 

[Harley]

As far as I am concerned the mystery is solved. I would forgive the parents if this was a one time thing that got out of hand and JonBenet died but if the abuse was ongoing and they knew it there is no forgiveness. They did not do right by Jonbenet or Burke (he should have gotten help long before this happened).

 

[cakegirl0905]

Just curious, do you know other cases Wood was involved with?

And...for anyone: IF it was BR, why didn't JR or PR clean up her body and take rope off her neck? I don't understand that.

I kind of wonder if the garrote was applied by one of the parents after discovering her nearly dead with a serious head wound? Who knows, maybe they thought she was dead at that point already and were trying to stage it, even though it is what actually killed her.

I too have thought for a while Burke did this and the parents covered it up. I just suspect that they staged it to look like a sexual assault and strangulation. And then a kidnapping for ransom.

 

[Tadpole12]

OK I am going to go ahead and say this, at the risk of being tarred and feathered.

I realize John and Patsy are still horrid people. They apparently allowed their daughter to be abused. They covered up a horrible crime and in the process they ruined careers of perfectly fine people, threw virtually everyone they knew under the bus and lied and lied and lied. They went on to profit by writing books about this horrible tragedy.

So, I am certainly not changing my overall opinion of them. But, I just have to say, they are slightly, very, very slightly, but it's there, more sympathetic to me than they were yesterday.

They were covering for their only only surviving child. Not for each other. It was still wrong, but parents are generally far from objective when it comes to their children.

Again, I am not saying I like them, or support them. Just that maybe I get the cover up a little more than I did yesterday.

Bring on the villagers and their flames.

Heyya chlban

"more sympathetic to me than they were yesterday." - chiban

Oh, please say it isn't so......

A flaming Drambuie for you!
Shake it out.

 

[vlpate]

Wow. Right now, JonBenet is the top story on CNN.com.

This is the headline:

CNN is technically correct...the parents were not suspects in the "murder" of JonBenet....and the DNA did not belong to "them". No one who watches this criminal media bias will think of it that way though.

Apparently Mary Lacy believed Patsy and John were covering for John Mark Karr:scared:

 

[TroyinTX]

Well, while the releasing of these documents is interesting, I do not think it is anything surprising to the many of us who have followed this case for awhile now. I have always suspected BR did it and JR and PR covered up for him. It is just mind-boggling that there are indeed people who believe that cockamammy "unknown intruder" theory that makes absolutely ZERO sense and still grasp at the "DNA" that was found that is truly the most blatant smoke screen ever presented as "evidence" for this crime.

Looking at the whole picture, it is obvious who was involved that night. It is just heart-breaking that little JonBenet never got the justice she deserves and more than likely never will. Sad.

 

[rob]

I kind of wonder if the garrote was applied by one of the parents after discovering her nearly dead with a serious head wound? Who knows, maybe they thought she was dead at that point already and were trying to stage it, even though it is what actually killed her.

I too have thought for a while Burke did this and the parents covered it up. I just suspect that they staged it to look like a sexual assault and strangulation. And then a kidnapping for ransom.

I'm thinking that JR was staging the scene while PR was writing the marathon ransom letter.

 

[ShadyLady]

I kind of wonder if the garrote was applied by one of the parents after discovering her nearly dead with a serious head wound? Who knows, maybe they thought she was dead at that point already and were trying to stage it, even though it is what actually killed her.

I too have thought for a while Burke did this and the parents covered it up. I just suspect that they staged it to look like a sexual assault and strangulation. And then a kidnapping for ransom.

It does not make sense to me that the strangulation was staging. And I remember reading that PR would do something to JBR in the bathroom after she had accidents. Something is just too weird in that family.

 

[chlban]

ShadyLady;9926463]

Just curious, do you know other cases Wood was involved with?

And...for anyone: IF it was BR, why didn't JR or PR clean up her body and take rope off her neck? I don't understand that

Because it worked for the stagng. In fact, they may have actually been the ones to put the rope on, I don't think we'll ever know that for sure. It still strkes me as an elaborate method of death for a nine year old. Maybe that was the point?

 

[dodie20]

A few thoughts here...Steve Thomas worked hard on this case and he thought PR was the murderer. LHP, (the housekeeper), thought PR did it and supposedly testified to such. She also said from what she saw, the GJ focused on PR. So, did the GJ, on their own, come to BR conclusion or was this how the evidence was presented to them-with BR, being the focus?

 

[dodie20]

I guess what I'm wondering, is when did LE move away from the PR theory. Also, if they thought BR was responsible, why did they go after JMK?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

AC360 will be talking about JonBenet tonight. They had a little "pop-up" about it during "Around the World" (which is also talking about JBR at the moment) so it seems like it should be a decent-length segment.

 

[Dragonlady]

I'm thinking that JR was staging the scene while PR was writing the marathon ransom letter.

I don't believe either parent applied the garrote, it was all BR, he did not have the physical strength to strangulate her so he made the crude device to kill her.
JBR was alive between the two injuries, I believe that the garrote was what eventually killed her.
The RN is still somewhat of a mystery to me because I think BR wrote it but it may have been revised or rewritten by his mother, JR would never have written such a ridiculous letter or even allowed it to see the light of day had he had the chance to get rid of it before.