GUILTY Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, British, tortured and murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 *Appeal filed 2023* #5

[Kemug]

LE did note their plan to look back 6 months before the day of her murder, with the view that he spent that long working up to it.

I missed this before, it is really interesting. I wonder what makes LE think this. And if it is so, that should involve some sort of proof, I would think.

 

[Estelle]

I missed this before, it is really interesting. I wonder what makes LE think this. And if it is so, that should involve some sort of proof, I would think.

I think in cases of murder, police always look back at least six months looking for evidence of premeditation.

 

[Dotta]

Τουρίστες στην Αλόννησο αφήνουν λουλούδια στον τάφο της Καρολάιν (vid) Tourists light candles at Caroline's grave.

 

[tayaway]

It appears that the Greek gov't is currently going through the process of tightening/toughening laws involving such crimes as those that B committed against C.

Athens Magazine Aug 20

The crime in Glyka Nera is not a simple murder, with new revelations coming to light , as the confession of Babis Anagnostopoulos brought a series of other murders of women, which also shocked the nation. But it is also the culmination of a debate on the subject .

Stricter penalties for heinous crimes, such as the murder of Caroline, for sex crimes, and crimes against minors and gender-based violence, are just a few steps before they become the rule of law, while at the same time exiting the gates. of prisons for the convicts and are late to open.

Το έγκλημα στα Γλυκά Νερά δεν είναι ένα απλό φονικό, με νέες αποκαλύψεις να έρχονται στο φως, καθώς η ομολογία του Μπάμπη Αναγνωστόπουλου έφερε μια σειρά από άλλες δολοφονίες γυναικών, που επίσης σόρασαν το πανελλήνιο. Αποτελεί, όμως, και κορωνίδα σε μια ουσιαστικά συζήτηση περί του θέματος.

Η αυστηροποίηση των ποινών για τα βαριά ιδιαζόντως ειδεχθή εγκλήματα, όπως είναι η δολοφονία της Καρολάιν, για τα σεξουαλικά εγκλήματα, και τα εγκλήματα κατά των ανηλίκων και έμφυλης βίας, είναι λίγα βήματα πριν γίνουν γράμμα του νόμου, ενώ την ίδια στιγμή βαραίνουν οι πύλες εξόδου των φυλακών για τους βαρυποινίτες και καθυστερούν να ανοίξουν.

 

[Estelle]

The amendments move on the following main axes which are :

1) tightening the framework of penalties for specific crimes of particular criminal value,

2) the tightening of the conditional release of convicts as well as the lifting of the release of criminals who repeatedly commit serious crimes; and

3) the restoration and extension of the crime to commonly dangerous offenses such as arson, explosion, flood, etc., to the offenses related to adoption and to the reorganization of the penalties for the offenses of theft and embezzlement (in their misdemeanor form)

The amendments adopted by the Council of Ministers provide:

-Only the sentence of life imprisonment for the offenses of treason, manslaughter, gang rape and rape of a minor and deadly robbery.

- The statute of limitations for crimes against sexual freedom when committed against a minor will start from the age of one and for one year, if the act is a misdemeanor and for three years if the act is a felony.

- Insult on one's own initiative will now be prosecuted for insulting sexual dignity and insulting sexual decency for minors.

- The insult of sexual dignity, when performed in the workplace, etc. (sexual harassment, etc.) is now punishable only by imprisonment (the possibility of alternative sentencing with a fine has been abolished) and is prosecuted ex officio.

The crime of incest returns to its criminal form, as the changes made to the Penal Code in June 2019 were a misdemeanor.

-The offense of sexual acts with minors or in front of them (article 339 of the Penal Code), is now punished only as a crime

- The old provision of article 310 paragraph 1 of the Penal Code for serious bodily harm is restored.

- The provision for bodily injury due to negligence is tightened (article 314 par. 1 of the Penal Code) and a new provision is added according to which the commission of bodily injury against an employee during the execution of the work constitutes an aggravating circumstance.

-The provision for the inappropriate attempt is restored, which had been abolished with the change of the Penal Code in June 2019.

- The framework for the provision of community service in case of non-provision or improper provision of this work by the convict is reshaped and specified.

Γλυκά Νερά: Ο Μπάμπης Αναγνωστόπουλος ομολόγησε 37 μέρες μετά το έγκλημα - Δύο μήνες αργότερα έκανε ένα ανέλπιστο καλό

 

[Dotta]

Γλυκά Νερά: Ο... απρόσεκτος Μπάμπης Αναγνωστόπουλος...Τι τον «κάρφωσε» | Pressing.gr About B's behaviour after the murder/also about TA/K

 

[tayaway]

Γλυκά Νερά: Ο... απρόσεκτος Μπάμπης Αναγνωστόπουλος...Τι τον «κάρφωσε» | Pressing.gr About B's behaviour after the murder/also about TA/K

It's interesting that B wouldn't even communicate with them via phone. I'd mistakenly thought he refused only to be on camera or phone via live tv.

 

[Dotta]

It's interesting that B wouldn't even communicate with them via phone. I'd mistakenly thought he refused only to be on camera or phone via live tv.

Only psychopaths can successfully deceive others. And B isnt one of them. He behaved strangely at the funeral - didnt come close to the body in the open coffin. Never said her name after the murder, during conversation with the therapist he looked mostly down avoiding eye contact. He knew that his body language was betraying him. And the tone of voice. I can always detect when sb is lying just listening to this person - the hazard of my job I guess

 

[Estelle]

Only psychopaths can successfully deceive others. And B isnt one of them. He behaved strangely at the funeral - didnt come close to the body in the open coffin. Never said her name after the murder, during conversation with the therapist he looked mostly down avoiding eye contact. He knew that his body language was betraying him. And the tone of voice. I can always detect when sb is lying just listening to this person - the hazard of my job I guess

So B hid behind his text messages.

 

[tayaway]

Fimes Aug 25/26 A bit of an update on a possible accomplice after the fact, not sure if it's the person who allegedly made 3 threatening call to the therapist.

Who has been summoned three times in the last few days to GADA for questioning in the case of the murder of Caroline in Glyka Nera ? ...
[He] is a relative of Babis Anagnostopoulos who allegedly played a role in the development of the case.
In fact, according to an ELAS officer, the person in question allegedly provided some form of assistance to the killer.

Ποιο άτομο κλήθηκε τρεις φορές τις τελευταίες μέρες στη ΓΑΔΑ για ανάκριση στην υπόθεση δολοφονίας της Καρολάιν στα Γλυκά Νερά;
Πρόκειται για συγγενή του Μπάμπη Αναγνωστόπουλου που φέρεται να έπαιξε ρόλο στην εξέλιξη της υπόθεσης.
Σύμφωνα μάλιστα με αξιωματικό της ΕΛΑΣ, το εν λόγω άτομο φέρεται να έδωσε κάποιας μορφής βοήθεια στον δολοφόνο.

 

[Dotta]

Fimes Aug 25/26 A bit of an update on a possible accomplice after the fact, not sure if it's the person who allegedly made 3 threatening call to the therapist.

Who has been summoned three times in the last few days to GADA for questioning in the case of the murder of Caroline in Glyka Nera ? ...
[He] is a relative of Babis Anagnostopoulos who allegedly played a role in the development of the case.
In fact, according to an ELAS officer, the person in question allegedly provided some form of assistance to the killer.

Ποιο άτομο κλήθηκε τρεις φορές τις τελευταίες μέρες στη ΓΑΔΑ για ανάκριση στην υπόθεση δολοφονίας της Καρολάιν στα Γλυκά Νερά;
Πρόκειται για συγγενή του Μπάμπη Αναγνωστόπουλου που φέρεται να έπαιξε ρόλο στην εξέλιξη της υπόθεσης.
Σύμφωνα μάλιστα με αξιωματικό της ΕΛΑΣ, το εν λόγω άτομο φέρεται να έδωσε κάποιας μορφής βοήθεια στον δολοφόνο.

So it seems everything stayed in the family.

 

[tayaway]

So it seems everything stayed in the family.

Maybe?

 

[Dotta]

Maybe?

It is a pity so many innocent strangers including foreigners were spat on by public opinion. MOO

 

[tayaway]

It is a pity so many innocent strangers including foreigners were spat on by public opinion. MOO

Yes, I remember that. Vilification of different ethnicities and nations!

 

[tayaway]

So it seems everything stayed in the family.

It certainly appears that way. I distinctly remember his brother saying he wanted nothing to do with him when it came out B killed C. Seems like hollow words to throw LE off the scent of the accomplice. As they say, actions speak louder than words. ETA: @Dotta, if I remember correctly, you noted that he'd been visiting B in prison and brought him things. Looks like you were the better judge of character here.

To Vima Aug 26

According to information published in the newspaper On Time, it is considered almost certain that the pilot had an accomplice.

Not during the commission of the crime, but afterwards, when the perpetrator was trying to cover his tracks and drive away any suspicion from his face. It was then that he probably asked for the help of someone very close to him, who would never betray him and it is alleged that he is the person who called and threatened Mrs. Mylonopoulou.

According to the information provided by On Time, relatives of the perpetrator who were very close to him have also been invited to testify at GADA. Among them is his brother, who was called three times for clarification. BBM

Σύμφωνα με πληροφορίες που δημοσιεύτηκαν στην εφημερίδα On Time, θεωρείται σχεδόν βέβαιο ότι ο πιλότος είχε συνεργό.

Όχι κατά την τέλεση του εγκλήματος, αλλά μετά, όταν ο δράστης προσπαθούσε να καλύψει τα ίχνη του και να διώξει κάθε υποψία από το πρόσωπό του. Τότε ήταν που πιθανότατα ζήτησε τη βοήθεια κάποιου πολύ δικού του ανθρώπου, που δεν θα τον πρόδιδε ποτέ και εικάζεται ότι είναι το άτομο που τηλεφώνησε και απείλησε την κυρία Μυλωνοπούλου.

Σύμφωνα πάντα με τις με πληροφορίες της On Time, στη ΓΑΔΑ έχουν κληθεί να καταθέσουν και συγγενικά πρόσωπα του δράστη που βρίσκονταν πολύ κοντά του. Μεταξύ αυτών και ο αδελφός του, ο οποίος κλήθηκε τρεις φορές για διευκρινίσεις. BBM

 

[Dotta]

It certainly appears that way. I distinctly remember his brother saying he wanted nothing to do with him when it came out B killed C. Seems like hollow words to throw LE off the scent of the accomplice. As they say, actions speak louder than words. ETA: @Dotta, if I remember correctly, you noted that he'd been visiting B in prison and brought him things. Looks like you were the better judge of character here.

To Vima Aug 26

According to information published in the newspaper On Time, it is considered almost certain that the pilot had an accomplice.

Not during the commission of the crime, but afterwards, when the perpetrator was trying to cover his tracks and drive away any suspicion from his face. It was then that he probably asked for the help of someone very close to him, who would never betray him and it is alleged that he is the person who called and threatened Mrs. Mylonopoulou.

According to the information provided by On Time, relatives of the perpetrator who were very close to him have also been invited to testify at GADA. Among them is his brother, who was called three times for clarification. BBM

Σύμφωνα με πληροφορίες που δημοσιεύτηκαν στην εφημερίδα On Time, θεωρείται σχεδόν βέβαιο ότι ο πιλότος είχε συνεργό.

Όχι κατά την τέλεση του εγκλήματος, αλλά μετά, όταν ο δράστης προσπαθούσε να καλύψει τα ίχνη του και να διώξει κάθε υποψία από το πρόσωπό του. Τότε ήταν που πιθανότατα ζήτησε τη βοήθεια κάποιου πολύ δικού του ανθρώπου, που δεν θα τον πρόδιδε ποτέ και εικάζεται ότι είναι το άτομο που τηλεφώνησε και απείλησε την κυρία Μυλωνοπούλου.

Σύμφωνα πάντα με τις με πληροφορίες της On Time, στη ΓΑΔΑ έχουν κληθεί να καταθέσουν και συγγενικά πρόσωπα του δράστη που βρίσκονταν πολύ κοντά του. Μεταξύ αυτών και ο αδελφός του, ο οποίος κλήθηκε τρεις φορές για διευκρινίσεις. BBM

Yes, but the brother lives on the island A., not in Athens.

 

[tayaway]

Yes, but the brother lives on the island A., not in Athens.

B has more than one brother? eta: The little facts get all jumbled or forgotten.

 

[Dotta]

B has more than one brother? eta: The little facts get all jumbled or forgotten.

I have no idea.
Maybe his bro wanted to scare the therapist not to tell anything incriminating and believed in B's innocence?
I still think it was B who called and threatened.
But who knows what skeletons in the closet this family keeps???

 

[Estelle]

I have no idea.
Maybe his bro wanted to scare the therapist not to tell anything incriminating and believed in B's innocence?
I still think it was B who called and threatened.
But who knows what skeletons in the closet this family keeps???

My first thought was B's father who could be deemed to be his "accomplice". Perhaps he believed in B's story or B opened up to him about things as B was staying in his house so to save the family name, was he the one who called the therapist? As B is a narcissist, perhaps his father is one too. B's father has kept a low profile. The only time he has been mentioned was that he went with B to see the plot of land.

I am not sure about the brother. He was seen with his mother and baby L taking L to the car to meet C's mother. I was surprised to read that B's brother took things to him in prison when he claimed to not want anything to do with him. Perhaps B's father forced him to do that so that he could continue his low profile. I guess he could have phoned the therapist from the island of A or could have been staying with his parents at the time. His brother is younger. I predicted that the family dynamics would be that B's father and B would be the controllers and B's mother and young brother compliant so I doubted whether the brother would have the guts to do the telephoning.

 

[tayaway]

My first thought was B's father who could be deemed to be his "accomplice". Perhaps he believed in B's story or B opened up to him about things as B was staying in his house so to save the family name, was he the one who called the therapist? As B is a narcissist, perhaps his father is one too. B's father has kept a low profile. The only time he has been mentioned was that he went with B to see the plot of land.

I am not sure about the brother. He was seen with his mother and baby L taking L to the car to meet C's mother. I was surprised to read that B's brother took things to him in prison when he claimed to not want anything to do with him. Perhaps B's father forced him to do that so that he could continue his low profile. I guess he could have phoned the therapist from the island of A or could have been staying with his parents at the time. His brother is younger. I predicted that the family dynamics would be that B's father and B would be the controllers and B's mother and young brother compliant so I doubted whether the brother would have the guts to do the telephoning.

I agree with you - so maybe the brother, having been interviewed at least 3 times by LE, isn't as a suspect after the fact, but to help fill things out? Maybe the father is the one that called and threatened the therapist?