GUILTY Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, British, tortured and murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 *Appeal filed 2023* #5

[Dotta]

I agree with you - so maybe the brother, having been interviewed at least 3 times by LE, isn't as a suspect after the fact, but to help fill things out? Maybe the father is the one that called and threatened the therapist?

Would an educated man (engineer) stoop so low as to phone sb using coarse language and talk about killing??

 

[tayaway]

Would an educated man (engineer) stoop so low as to phone sb using coarse language and talk about killing??

Yes! It doesn't matter your background, if you think you can get away with threatening someone to protect your son. Disclaimer: I have no idea who did the threats, but if I had to choose b/t brother or father, I'm going with the father.

 

[Dotta]

But it would be counterproductive! It would only draw attention to the son as a culprit. It was obvious the therapist would inform the Police. The calls were made by the murderer and his family members are also his victims. Only the murderer was deranged enough to make these calls. The ground was burning under his feet. MOO

 

[tayaway]

But it would be counterproductive! It would only draw attention to the son as a culprit. It was obvious the therapist would inform the Police. The calls were made by the murderer and his family members are also his victims. Only the murderer was deranged enough to make these calls. The ground was burning under his feet. MOO

If, as @Estelle suggests, B's father is every bit of a narc as B, he too would suffer from delusional illusions of grandeur, no? Narcissists are made, they are not born that way, so how did B get to be this way? I found it very strange that B went with his father in the days after C's death, to check out the property they bought. Who would do that when you're DIL has just been murdered by robbers? Wouldn't you be too grief stricken? Not B or his father, apparently. You may be right in that B himself made the calls, I don't know.

 

[Dotta]

The silence from the family was deafening - they never defended B publicly . I think they suspected B. But being loyal they kept silent. They helped him as they could: with the lot and house building supervision, taking care of baby L and then bringing things to the prison. But thats all. Their lives are ruined.

 

[tayaway]

The silence from the family was deafening - they never defended B publicly . I think they suspected B. But being loyal they kept silent. They helped him as they could: with the lot and house building supervision, taking care of baby L and then bringing things to the prison. But thats all. Their lives are ruined.

It could be that I misread the translation and the mystery phone caller is completely separate from B's family members and their LE interviews.

 

[Dotta]

It could be that I misread the translation and the mystery phone caller is completely separate from B's family members and their LE interviews.

Maybe LE interview all family members and colleagues of B to finalize the investigation? You know - ts and is crossed and dotted (I dont remember the exact expression haha). I wonder when the trial will take place?
Phew, so many interesting trials starting from Sept - (Derek Ch and company - Federal trial, Wayne C-Sarah E case, Maria R case - Valentin L, Julia J and deranged killer - now, have I missed anything??).
As I start work on 1 Sept after holidays I will be absolutely busy I guess.

 

[Estelle]

Would an educated man (engineer) stoop so low as to phone sb using coarse language and talk about killing??

Yes. It was anonymous so nobody knows who it was yet unless LE have linked him to the phone calls since. Some fathers would do anything to protect their sons - especially if B was the "golden child" being the eldest child of a suspected narcissist. Education does not censor coarse language especially if someone is enraged.

 

[Estelle]

But it would be counterproductive! It would only draw attention to the son as a culprit. It was obvious the therapist would inform the Police. The calls were made by the murderer and his family members are also his victims. Only the murderer was deranged enough to make these calls. The ground was burning under his feet. MOO

We would have to listen to the voice on the phone and compare it with B's voice. Surely EM would have recognised B's voice. As there is doubt, I would say it was someone else.

 

[Estelle]

Yes! It doesn't matter your background, if you think you can get away with threatening someone to protect your son. Disclaimer: I have no idea who did the threats, but if I had to choose b/t brother or father, I'm going with the father.

I agree. I have been curious about the father from the beginning as he is the only one in those families we have not seen or heard from. I have therefore been suspicious of him.

 

[Estelle]

But it would be counterproductive! It would only draw attention to the son as a culprit. It was obvious the therapist would inform the Police. The calls were made by the murderer and his family members are also his victims. Only the murderer was deranged enough to make these calls. The ground was burning under his feet. MOO

The only other person who could have called EM could have been Stavros. I am still curious about him.

 

[Estelle]

If, as @Estelle suggests, B's father is every bit of a narc as B, he too would suffer from delusional illusions of grandeur, no? Narcissists are made, they are not born that way, so how did B get to be this way? I found it very strange that B went with his father in the days after C's death, to check out the property they bought. Who would do that when you're DIL has just been murdered by robbers? Wouldn't you be too grief stricken? Not B or his father, apparently. You may be right in that B himself made the calls, I don't know.

Delusions of grandeur - perhaps - but more importantly narcissistic rage. IMO B's father was out to protect B. Perhaps B confided in him.

 

[Dotta]

The only other person who could have called EM could have been Stavros. I am still curious about him.

Well, time will tell who the mysterious caller was. If he existed, that is

 

[Kemug]

I am trying very hard to remember and believe that narcissists are not necessarily criminals and murderers.

 

[Dotta]

I am trying very hard to remember and believe that narcissists are not necessarily criminals and murderers.

Sure, it is just a fancy name for selfish and self-centred people. Half of the population tick this box.

 

[tayaway]

Real Aug 28

New info about B's accomplice:

According to the authorities, Babis Anagnostopoulos, a few minutes after the murder of the mother of his child, called a person close to him, to help him "direct" the crime scene, in order to disorient the police.

...According to well-informed sources, the latest developments do not leave indifferent the pilot who until a month ago seemed to move "comfortably" inside the prisons.

Detainees and prison officials who come in contact with him on a daily basis describe him as "troubled" and "nervous" because of the new twist in the much-maligned case of the murder of 20-year-old Caroline.

Όπως εκτιμούν οι αρχές, ο Μπάμπης Αναγνωστόπουλος, λίγα λεπτά μετά την δολοφονία της μητέρας του παιδιού του, τηλεφώνησε σε οικείο του πρόσωπο, ώστε να τον βοηθήσει να «σκηνοθετήσει» τον τόπο του εγκλήματος, ώστε να αποπροσανατολίσει την αστυνομία.

...Όπως αναφέρουν καλά ενημερωμένες πηγές, οι τελευταίες εξελίξεις δεν αφήνουν αδιάφορο τον πιλότο που μέχρι και πριν από ένα μήνα έμοιαζε να κινείται με "άνεση" μέσα στις φυλακές.

Συγκρατούμενοι και σωφρονιστικοί υπάλληλοι που έρχονται καθημερινά σε επαφή μαζί του, τον χαρακτηρίζουν ως "ταραγμένο" και "νευρικό" εξαιτίας της νέας τροπής που παίρνει η πολύκροτη υπόθεση της δολοφονίας της 20χρονης Καρολάιν.

 

[Estelle]

I am trying very hard to remember and believe that narcissists are not necessarily criminals and murderers.

When Narcissistic Rage Ends In Murder
American psychoanalyst Heinz Kohut coined the term 'narcissistic rage' describing the risk of violent rage from narcissistic personalities if they are challenged or perceive rejection.

https://www.crimetraveller.org/2015/07/narcissistic-rage-cold-blooded-murder/

This is an interesting article which I suggest that you read.

 

[Estelle]

According to the authorities, Babis Anagnostopoulos, a few minutes after the murder of the mother of his child, called a person close to him, to help him "direct" the crime scene, in order to disorient the police.

......in order to "erase" the traces that would betray his horrific act.

Besides, as Realnews had revealed , at the beginning of August, the man behind the threats to the mental health counselor is being investigated by the Hellenic Police, having at his disposal serious indications for the 32-year-old pilot accomplice in the horrible crime in Glikon Nero maisonette .

As part of the investigations in order to shed light on the murder of the unfortunate Caroline , people from the close family circle of the 32-year-old pilot have been summoned to GADA for new deposits. In fact, one of them testified three times, giving clarifications on the unanswered questions…

Detained and prison officials who come in contact with him on a daily basis describe him as "disturbed" and "nervous" because of the new way the controversial case of the murder of 20-year-old Caroline is taking.

Δολοφονία στα Γλυκά Νερά: Νέα στοιχεία για τον ύποπτο συνεργό του πιλότου

My guess is still that this is B's father who could have lied at first to LE and could be facing charges so B feels disturbed and nervous. Perhaps B could have asked his father about how to stage the crime scene or asked his father to bring him things like duct tape, etc.

 

[Dotta]

According to the authorities, Babis Anagnostopoulos, a few minutes after the murder of the mother of his child, called a person close to him, to help him "direct" the crime scene, in order to disorient the police.

......in order to "erase" the traces that would betray his horrific act.

Besides, as Realnews had revealed , at the beginning of August, the man behind the threats to the mental health counselor is being investigated by the Hellenic Police, having at his disposal serious indications for the 32-year-old pilot accomplice in the horrible crime in Glikon Nero maisonette .

As part of the investigations in order to shed light on the murder of the unfortunate Caroline , people from the close family circle of the 32-year-old pilot have been summoned to GADA for new deposits. In fact, one of them testified three times, giving clarifications on the unanswered questions…

Detained and prison officials who come in contact with him on a daily basis describe him as "disturbed" and "nervous" because of the new way the controversial case of the murder of 20-year-old Caroline is taking.

Δολοφονία στα Γλυκά Νερά: Νέα στοιχεία για τον ύποπτο συνεργό του πιλότου

My guess is still that this is B's father who could have lied at first to LE and could be facing charges so B feels disturbed and nervous. Perhaps B could have asked his father about how to stage the crime scene or asked his father to bring him things like duct tape, etc.

So it might indicate that the murder was not premeditated. B panicked and involved a family member.

 

[Estelle]

So it might indicate that the murder was not premeditated. B panicked and involved a family member.

I suspect it was premeditated as LE have said they know when he removed the security camera - about midnight.

Why do you think he would have called his father (if, in fact, he did)?