Guatemala - Nancy Ng, 29, from Monterey Park CA, missing during Yoga Retreat, 19 Oct 2023

I respect that QRCode idea.
This case has awakened my eyes to some of the lack of safety/ignorance that I have experienced in my trips all over the world.
It will not happen again.
You’re not alone in actions, maybe it’s just you and I but I think there’s many others who look back on events and recognize the lapse of judgment in certain situations especially while enjoying a relaxing vacation. Perhaps the “vacation” mindset has a tendency to not consider the risks involved and the need to be as cautious as we are in our every day life. I’m definitely glad you safely survived the encounters!

I lived on Lake Lanier for many years, it has a reputation of being haunted from underwater ghosts and spirits of the rural farm areas that had once existed prior to the development of the man made lake. The structures including homes and a Church with its steeple remained with the release of water creating the Lake. When riding on jet ski always wore life jacket but for some reason when paddle boarding I rarely wore a life jacket. I don’t recall assessing the risk maybe I felt comfortable and protected being located in a cove of the North area of Lake and less boat traffic plus I was often close to shore but there were areas of deep water, lacked proper judgment on water safety.
 
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Nancy Ng poses for a photo in front of a mural in Guatemala.

“I don’t know how much my family can accept that statement if it’s not backed up or confirmed by authorities,” Nicky said. “Whatever she’s sharing with her attorney, I don’t believe it’s something that’s under oath. And it’s maybe even his interpretation of what she told him.

She added: “At the end of the day, what we want is more information so that we can direct our search team.”

She went off on a kayaking excursion in Lake Atitlan. Gardner told KABC that Blazek, who also attended the retreat, “happened upon” Nancy kayaking on the lake and attempted to warn her that the conditions weren’t safe for swimming. In Blazek’s account, Gardner said, Nancy ignored the warnings, got in the water and pushed her kayak away from herself in the process. Blazek then said she attempted to help retrieve Nancy’s kayak and it was in those moments that Nancy disappeared.

“[Blazek] kept one leg in her kayak and one leg in [Nancy’s] kayak and tried to get back to her ... and got close to her,” Gardner told KABC. “And then apparently, [Blazek] lost the kayak again and she turned around to go back to get the kayak again, and when she turned back around, Ms. Ng was gone.”

“I am not ready to speak publicly yet but I have been in clear communication with Nancy’s family and the authorities in Guatemala since the very beginning,” Rimada said. “The FBI conducted interviews to help bring closure to the Ng family that I was also completely forthcoming with.”

“Nancy’s a good swimmer. I don’t understand how this could have happened. Was she struggling for a long time? Did Christina hear her scream or yell for help?” Nicky said. “What was the scope? The circumstances? Did she just disappear? Was there a land nearby that she could have swam? I had no context or not enough context of what was going on. So those are the same questions we still have today.”
The victimization of the poor witness IMO is very disheartening.

I witnessed a car accident last week. Both cars totaled. Young woman clearly at fault for speeding in town and running a red light. It happened right next to me. I didn't stop, except for a moment, knowing that I'm terrible in emergencies and might create a whole 'nother accident. I called the relevant PD in the next 10 minutes, though, left a message, and the officer called me back when they were done clearing the scene. At no time was there any kind of "oath" involved. At no time did the young woman at fault or her family call me out, either privately or publicly, for witnessing what I witnessed. I had no need for expensive lawyer fees to protect me from bad press for witnessing what I witnessed. I didn't have the terror of un-familiars calling and emailing me, berating me for not doing enough, not doing the right thing, not providing information, not cooperating with authorities.... I had no one fingering me as a liar or believing they were entitled to my innermost thoughts and private reactions.

Was the young woman who caused the accident I witnessed an excellent driver? Maybe, but not right then. Maybe she's a way more accomplished driver than I am, with superior reflexes, better eyesight. But in the moment of the accident, trusting this skill may easily have worked against her, while I (and the gent who got hit) stalwartly hung out at the lights, lead-footed on the brake pedal, waiting for the green to signal it was safe. Because we respected red lights and the general wisdom about not running them.

I happened to be at someone's accident. That's all. The police officer thanked me for calling in what I witnessed. She said most people never do.

I will also never forget the accident I witnessed, the sudden crashing cacophony, the bewilderment of the guy who got hit, the car speeding in from nowhere, the dread someone might be dead when there was no movement from either car, my own adrenaline and a new realization that, though tempted, I am really really not good at emergency situations. The helplessness I felt about not being able to do anything.

I am a victim, too: I now have a fear of intersections where folks are zooming around, pushing the boundaries of what's do-able in the situation, and which have a history of accidents (as I can extrapolate the car debris I notice at the roadside). I am visited by nightmares, and jump at loud noises. This accident was visited on me: I was in no way the cause.

That's my story. It's just a few days old. It will never be gone from my mental horizon, however. That's on no one but the young woman who careened into the intersection. I was a corollary victim to her decisions.

There's my sense of the accident in Guatemala, though my experience of the event I witnessed is minute compared to the Lake Atitlán drowning. I am appalled over the mud-slinging at the victim, who is the witness in this case and did her best.
 
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The victimization of the poor witness IMO is very disheartening.

I witnessed a car accident last week. Both cars totaled. Young woman clearly at fault for speeding in town and running a red light. It happened right next to me. I didn't stop, except for a moment, knowing that I'm terrible in emergencies and might create a whole 'nother accident. I called the relevant PD in the next 10 minutes, though, left a message, and the officer called me back when they were done clearing the scene. At no time was there any kind of "oath" involved. At no time did the young woman at fault or her family call me out, either privately or publicly, for witnessing what I witnessed. I had no need for expensive lawyer fees to protect me from bad press for witnessing what I witnessed. I didn't have the terror of un-familiars calling and emailing me, berating me for not doing enough, not doing the right thing, not providing information, not cooperating with authorities.... I had no one fingering me as a liar or believing they were entitled to my innermost thoughts and private reactions.

Was the young woman who caused the accident I witnessed an excellent driver? Maybe, but not right then. Maybe she's a way more accomplished driver than I am, with superior reflexes, better eyesight. But in the moment of the accident, trusting this skill may easily have worked against her, while I (and the gent who got hit) stalwartly hung out at the lights, lead-footed on the brake pedal, waiting for the green to signal it was safe. Because we respected red lights and the general wisdom about not running them.

I happened to be at someone's accident. That's all. The police officer thanked me for calling in what I witnessed. She said most people never do.

I will also never forget the accident I witnessed, the sudden crashing cacophony, the bewilderment of the guy who got hit, the car speeding in from nowhere, the dread someone might be dead when there was no movement from either car, my own adrenaline and a new realization that, though tempted, I am really really not good at emergency situations. The helplessness I felt about not being able to do anything.

I am a victim, too: I now have a fear of intersections where folks are zooming around, pushing the boundaries of what's do-able in the situation, and which have a history of accidents (as I can extrapolate the car debris I notice at the roadside). I am visited by nightmares, and jump at loud noises. This accident was visited on me: I was in no way the cause.

That's my story. It's just a few days old. It will never be gone from my mental horizon, however. That's on no one but the young woman who careened into the intersection. I was a corollary victim to her decisions.

There's my sense of the accident in Guatemala, though my experience of the event I witnessed is minute compared to the Lake Atitlán drowning. I am appalled over the mud-slinging at the victim, who is the witness in this case and did her best.
I know what you're talking about, I hope you can recover soon from your close encounter with the craziness of stressed out drivers.

IMO, what happened in Nancy's case is very common these days - a simple drowning morphed into a social-media-driven conspiracy theory.

IMO, the evidence for how that happened is all laid out if one looks at the social media/barely MSM that covered the 'story' as relayed by the family.

Whenever people start speculating about someone while wearing a conspiracy-mindset, there is only trouble ahead. Rationality and compassion are both tossed off the train as it gathers steam, and that's my cue to exit as well.

ETA I'm not referring specifically to WS, there is, for eg, a very popular podcast that has taken this story and run with it using the particular angle I'm talking about

JMO
 
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The victimization of the poor witness IMO is very disheartening.

I witnessed a car accident last week. Both cars totaled. Young woman clearly at fault for speeding in town and running a red light. It happened right next to me. I didn't stop, except for a moment, knowing that I'm terrible in emergencies and might create a whole 'nother accident. I called the relevant PD in the next 10 minutes, though, left a message, and the officer called me back when they were done clearing the scene. At no time was there any kind of "oath" involved. At no time did the young woman at fault or her family call me out, either privately or publicly, for witnessing what I witnessed. I had no need for expensive lawyer fees to protect me from bad press for witnessing what I witnessed. I didn't have the terror of un-familiars calling and emailing me, berating me for not doing enough, not doing the right thing, not providing information, not cooperating with authorities.... I had no one fingering me as a liar or believing they were entitled to my innermost thoughts and private reactions.

Was the young woman who caused the accident I witnessed an excellent driver? Maybe, but not right then. Maybe she's a way more accomplished driver than I am, with superior reflexes, better eyesight. But in the moment of the accident, trusting this skill may easily have worked against her, while I (and the gent who got hit) stalwartly hung out at the lights, lead-footed on the brake pedal, waiting for the green to signal it was safe. Because we respected red lights and the general wisdom about not running them.

I happened to be at someone's accident. That's all. The police officer thanked me for calling in what I witnessed. She said most people never do.

I will also never forget the accident I witnessed, the sudden crashing cacophony, the bewilderment of the guy who got hit, the car speeding in from nowhere, the dread someone might be dead when there was no movement from either car, my own adrenaline and a new realization that, though tempted, I am really really not good at emergency situations. The helplessness I felt about not being able to do anything.

I am a victim, too: I now have a fear of intersections where folks are zooming around, pushing the boundaries of what's do-able in the situation, and which have a history of accidents (as I can extrapolate the car debris I notice at the roadside). I am visited by nightmares, and jump at loud noises. This accident was visited on me: I was in no way the cause.

That's my story. It's just a few days old. It will never be gone from my mental horizon, however. That's on no one but the young woman who careened into the intersection. I was a corollary victim to her decisions.

There's my sense of the accident in Guatemala, though my experience of the event I witnessed is minute compared to the Lake Atitlán drowning. I am appalled over the mud-slinging at the victim, who is the witness in this case and did her best.
There are times even with an auto accident that the auto insurance company may be interested in speaking with witnesses for their testimony on what they saw, from their recollection.

MOO: With regard to Nancy’s family, the family just wants to find Nancy and bring her home. They have been asking the public for funds to help finance the search and need to be judicious in using the donations of kind contributors’ money. Knowing the spot Nancy went down would help determine search areas.
When they wondered “why they wouldn't want to come forward and help if nothing nefarious happened”, I don’t think the statement was implying that something nefarious, then, MUST have happened. More like frustration and probably exasperation at trying to get information of Nancy’s last known whereabouts and moments. MOO
 
If my child passed in another country, I would desperately want to talk to the last person who supposedly had contact with my child. People who are grieving often seek out every detail, hoping for a way to accept the situation or feel better about it, even though they know knowing all of the details can't bring their loved one back. It's absolutely heartbreaking to hear Nancy's siblings speak out; their anguish is apparent. Clearly they loved her very much and are experiencing tremendous pain. However, I feel their hurt is clouding their best judgement and some of the things they are saying about the witness are not appropriate, especially not when said to the media. I suspect when they've had time to process their grief they will regret some of the comments. Surely someone must be telling them their statements are not being well received?
 
If my child passed in another country, I would desperately want to talk to the last person who supposedly had contact with my child. People who are grieving often seek out every detail, hoping for a way to accept the situation or feel better about it, even though they know knowing all of the details can't bring their loved one back. It's absolutely heartbreaking to hear Nancy's siblings speak out; their anguish is apparent. Clearly they loved her very much and are experiencing tremendous pain. However, I feel their hurt is clouding their best judgement and some of the things they are saying about the witness are not appropriate, especially not when said to the media. I suspect when they've had time to process their grief they will regret some of the comments. Surely someone must be telling them their statements are not being well received?
Very well stated, @dulcinea.
I'm in agreement.
 
There are times even with an auto accident that the auto insurance company may be interested in speaking with witnesses for their testimony on what they saw, from their recollection.

MOO: With regard to Nancy’s family, the family just wants to find Nancy and bring her home. They have been asking the public for funds to help finance the search and need to be judicious in using the donations of kind contributors’ money. Knowing the spot Nancy went down would help determine search areas.
When they wondered “why they wouldn't want to come forward and help if nothing nefarious happened”, I don’t think the statement was implying that something nefarious, then, MUST have happened. More like frustration and probably exasperation at trying to get information of Nancy’s last known whereabouts and moments. MOO
Auto insurance companies would not be entitled to info from witnesses at vehicle accidents. Most passersby don't even report, as a LE officer said to me just a few days ago when I reported witnessing an accident.

IMO a third party is not obliged to do a whole lot of anything on the grounds that someone else's donors want to see their money spent where it's intended. The third party might not even approve of the cause; they might think it unethical; they might think it's contrary to the nature of things or that it's victimizing people.

The location on Lake Atitlán where the drowning occurred is not knowable IMO, through no fault of the witness-victim, and it could never have been knowable because of the conditions on the lake and the act of diving from a kayak, most of which we've discussed above.
 
If my child passed in another country, I would desperately want to talk to the last person who supposedly had contact with my child. People who are grieving often seek out every detail, hoping for a way to accept the situation or feel better about it, even though they know knowing all of the details can't bring their loved one back. It's absolutely heartbreaking to hear Nancy's siblings speak out; their anguish is apparent. Clearly they loved her very much and are experiencing tremendous pain. However, I feel their hurt is clouding their best judgement and some of the things they are saying about the witness are not appropriate, especially not when said to the media. I suspect when they've had time to process their grief they will regret some of the comments. Surely someone must be telling them their statements are not being well received?
I feel that, if at all possible, some in the family should go to Guatemala and see where it happened, see and hear from locals, go out in a boat to roughly the location, etc.

I think they are perhaps missing that emotional connection to the reality of what happened, and so they are looking to fill an emotional vacuum with 2nd hand facts. But facts do not satisfy the heart.

JMO
 
If my child passed in another country, I would desperately want to talk to the last person who supposedly had contact with my child. People who are grieving often seek out every detail, hoping for a way to accept the situation or feel better about it, even though they know knowing all of the details can't bring their loved one back. It's absolutely heartbreaking to hear Nancy's siblings speak out; their anguish is apparent. Clearly they loved her very much and are experiencing tremendous pain. However, I feel their hurt is clouding their best judgement and some of the things they are saying about the witness are not appropriate, especially not when said to the media. I suspect when they've had time to process their grief they will regret some of the comments. Surely someone must be telling them their statements are not being well received?
Thank you, Dulcinea, for your compassionate, balanced view.

I admit I identify strongly with Nancy’s family. I grew up in the same city in which Nancy lives, I have children somewhat close in age to her, and I am Asian, too. My oldest traveled all over Asia by herself when she was studying abroad. I remember the endless worry. What’s happened to Nancy is a parent’s nightmare come true.

It’s not that I don’t have empathy for the other kayaker (if anyone thinks that of me), but I have felt at times compelled to post to give more sensitivity to what I think might be Nancy’s family’s pov. Maybe it’s just me, coming from a place of background I’ve specified above.

I apologize if my posts have irked anyone on this thread, or have seemed insensitive to the other parties involved in this tragic incident.
 
I feel that, if at all possible, some in the family should go to Guatemala and see where it happened, see and hear from locals, go out in a boat to roughly the location, etc.

I think they are perhaps missing that emotional connection to the reality of what happened, and so they are looking to fill an emotional vacuum with 2nd hand facts. But facts do not satisfy the heart.

JMO
I agree with this completely, on so many levels. The person who dove in and drowned was somehow very much drawn to the lake, and she wanted to do just that. IMO the goddesses of Lake Atitlán are unlikely to release anyone from the depths, but the family might connect with the spirit of their loved one by spending time in a place that compelled her to come closer.
 
IMO there are some critical factors in this incident that don’t show up consistently in the press from any source:
—the sun exposure to kayakers in the middle of the day; the sun is directly overhead in Guatemala in fall, and the kayakers had been out for hours
—the coldness of the water, especially over the deep sections, and especially if you’re going to any depth
—wind and current
—the role of dehydration in decision making, as well as the effects of sun and wind
—the potentially fatal effects of sudden immersion in cold water (articles ^^^^^)
—the risks associated with being out of the kayak

Finally, I thought I’d post a how-to safety article on re-entering a kayak from deep water. FWIW I have had this experience myself: of all dumb things, I was kayaking with a friend and got laughing so hard, I suddenly found myself in the water. Note the equipment needed to get back in a kayak, and this video is someone who is experienced.


Arguably, it’s harder to get back in a kayak that hasn’t flipped versus one that has, because with flotation, the deck of the kayak is somewhere over your head, and you have no solid surface underfoot to spring from. If you try from the side, it can easily flip anyway, unless you have special equipment and know how to use it. If you straddle the stern and scooch over to the well where the kayaker sits….consider whether you’d actually be able to get your undercarriage onto the stern in an immense pull-up from deep water, and what you’d be grabbing onto to haul yourself up (the comings may be too far a reach).

The latter is presumably the scenario from the LA incident.

A scenario with a partner with one leg in each of two kayaks is a recipe for a second drowning. Luckily, the witness-victim in the Lake Atitlán incident survived; she could easily have drowned herself, given the task she was left with.

Here is equipment and best practices for kayakers. Note the temperature of the water when a wet suit would be recommended. Below-surface temperatures at LA are lower than this:

 
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The family has released a plea via Inside Edition:

What Happened to Missing Woman Nancy Ng?
Kudos to inside edition for actually sending a correspondent to Guatemala and actually having her out in a kayak out on the lake. New info to me was that the hotel the yoga group stayed in was right there by the kayak rental place on the lake. I wonder if Nancy had been out on the water during this trip before that fatal drowning day. The correspondent speaks with the owner of the kayak rental spot and they also patch in some sound bites from Nancy’s siblings.
Obvi the reporting does not change the outcome of the case but does add a little more color. Imo
 
I sincerely hope we do not see the level of villification that occurred in a certain case on the west coast of the U.S. during the summer before last.
 
I sincerely hope we do not see the level of villification that occurred in a certain case on the west coast of the U.S. during the summer before last.
I can't remember a case about a drowning in a high risk context where the witness-victim was vilified like this one. Could you reference your case from a couple of years back? Maybe the case near Lake Tahoe, where the young victim drove off a boat ramp in the middle of the night? But there was no witness there, and there was no obvious risk that an accident could happen (i.e. it seems very unlikely it could happen, but it did; there was very low reason to assess risk).
 
I can't remember a case about a drowning in a high risk context where the witness-victim was vilified like this one. Could you reference your case from a couple of years back? Maybe the case near Lake Tahoe, where the young victim drove off a boat ramp in the middle of the night? But there was no witness there, and there was no obvious risk that an accident could happen (i.e. it seems very unlikely it could happen, but it did; there was very low reason to assess risk).
Yes, I was referring to Kiely, and while there were indeed no known witnesses, some in her family and circle were villified to no end.
 
Yes, I was referring to Kiely, and while there were indeed no known witnesses, some in her family and circle were villified to no end.
Now I see where you're coming from. Yes, I thought that was awful.

In the Ng case, it seems like the witness-victim is getting vilified and not Ng's family.

I also noted that gossipers weren't taking into account that the Lake Atitlán event involved a personal risk assessment and a chain of choices, e.g. "I see this is a big lake, and the wind has come up, and my buddy here is concerned about that, but I think I can handle it, so I'm going to dive in". In other words, there's a personal and conscious decision leading to the event. For me, the big difference between that and the Kiely case is that Kiely seems simply to have driven the wrong way in the dark.

How about I explain it this way: I would never have willingly jumped into Lake Atitlán, let alone out in deep water. There's a brooding goddess under the surface, as far as I can see. But for some reason it spoke to Ng and she chose to dive in. It was entirely on her. Kiely on the other hand didn't choose to drive into a lake that she likely couldn't even see. Almost anyone could make the same mistake out there in the forest dark.

IMO if gossipers took into account that personal choice was the route to the Lake Atitlán drowning, there would be no room at all for vilifying the witness-victim.
 

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