How bad a mother does it take? European or American ideas?

[shrinkydink]

If they committed a crime in Portugal and there is a law there, then they should be charged, doesnt matter if they are going through tough times, commit the crime do the time.

Also, I don't recall any parents of kidnapped children ever being in the news for arrests related to child endangerment, even when the children were very young and kidnapped when unsupervised, as they should have been.

Do you know of any case in which this happened? Because based on this argument, Adam Walsh's mother should have been arrested for child endangerment, because she left him alone in a store while she went shopping in another part of the store. He was only six, far too young to be left alone where she couldn't see him. I don't remember anyone once, ever saying she should be arrested for child endangerment, though.

I still really feel different ideas of fairness and legality are being applied to KM and I just don't see why.

Shrinky

 

[Shazza]

Also, I don't recall any parents of kidnapped children ever being in the news for arrests related to child endangerment, even when the children were very young and kidnapped when unsupervised, as they should have been.

Do you know of any case in which this happened? Because based on this argument, Adam Walsh's mother should have been arrested for child endangerment, because she left him alone in a store while she went shopping in another part of the store. He was only six, far too young to be left alone where she couldn't see him. I don't remember anyone once, ever saying she should be arrested for child endangerment, though.

I still really feel different ideas of fairness and legality are being applied to KM and I just don't see why.

Shrinky

KM is being treated differently as is her husband, they are getting away with a crime they committed which IMO cannot be compared with other crimes involving children who go missing, this isnt the same as the the Adam Walsh case, each case is different and should be dealt with as per the law, wherever it be.

 

[shrinkydink]

KM is being treated differently as is her husband, they are getting away with a crime they committed which IMO cannot be compared with other crimes involving children who go missing, this isnt the same as the the Adam Walsh case, each case is different and should be dealt with as per the law, wherever it be.

But what *is* the difference - assuming the didn't kill their child, of course? Both mothers left their children alone when they were too young to be left alone. Why is the Adam Walsh case different in regards to child endangerment? He was only six and his mother was nowhere near him at the time. He was *legally* abandoned at the point at which he was taken.

Look, I'm not at all saying *I* think his mother should be arrested, but by your legal argument she should, and I would just like to know why. I don't see the difference as far as the law is concerned. You said you do the crime, you do the time, so why doesn't this apply to Adam Walsh's mother? That was a crime to leave a child that young alone and unatteneded.

Shrinky

 

[Shazza]

But what *is* the difference - assuming the didn't kill their child, of course? Both mothers left their children alone when they were too young to be left alone. Why is the Adam Walsh case different in regards to child endangerment? He was only six and his mother was nowhere near him at the time. He was *legally* abandoned at the point at which he was taken.

Look, I'm not at all saying *I* think his mother should be arrested, but by your legal argument she should, and I would just like to know why. I don't see the difference as far as the law is concerned. You said you do the crime, you do the time, so why doesn't this apply to Adam Walsh's mother? That was a crime to leave a child that young alone and unatteneded.

Shrinky

I dont know much about the Adam Walsh case, but did the mother walk off and leave the child intentionally, as the McCanns walked off knowingly leaving their children alone, that is wrong.

 

[shrinkydink]

I dont know much about the Adam Walsh case, but did the mother walk off and leave the child intentionally, as the McCanns walked off knowingly leaving their children alone, that is wrong.

Yes, she did. She left him in a toy section and told him to wait for her while she went to look for lamps in another department, on another floor. I don't remember how long she was gone before she came back & realized he was missing. I'd have to look that up. But her leaving him was intentional, by her own statement. She just didn't think anything bad would happen so long as he was in the store.

Shrinky

 

[Shazza]

Yes, she did. She left him in a toy section and told him to wait for her while she went to look for lamps in another department, on another floor. I don't remember how long she was gone before she came back & realized he was missing. I'd have to look that up. But her leaving him was intentional, by her own statement. She just didn't think anything bad would happen so long as he was in the store.

Shrinky

That is sad, and the mother should be charged. Was she charged and what happened to Adam.

 

[shrinkydink]

That is sad, and the mother should be charged. Was she charged and what happened to Adam.

No, she was never charged. Adam's severed head was found in a canal, but the rest of his body was never found, as far as I know. A serial killer confessed to the crime on his death bed, but I don't think anyone knows for sure if he really did it.

But this was my point about putting that child's mother in jail. I really can't imagine a court in the Western world that would take the stance that she hadn't already suffered more than enough for having left her son alone that day. I just don't see courts anywhere thinking these mothers or society need the mothers in jail as the next logical step.

I do agree that people who endanger a child should go to jail. Had any of those children been hurt, but only slightly, or had Madeleine been found alive and well within hours, that's probably what would have happened. But this woman will possibly live the rest of her life knowing her oldest child came to a horrible end, and believe me, she can't possibly not feel some guilt regarding that, no matter what public face she puts on. Even crime victims who clearly didn't do anything wrong to become victims blame themselves - it's a natural part of the process, no matter the real level of guilt the outside world might think is fair. Victims blame themselves much more than we do, from all the evidence I've ever seen. Their statements to the contrary are generally because they can't take much more guilt being heaped on them than they've already put on themselves.


Shrinky

 

[Shazza]

No, she was never charged. Adam's severed head was found in a canal, but the rest of his body was never found, as far as I know. A serial killer confessed to the crime on his death bed, but I don't think anyone knows for sure if he really did it.

But this was my point about putting that child's mother in jail. I really can't imagine a court in the Western world that would take the stance that she hadn't already suffered more than enough for having left her son alone that day. I just don't see courts anywhere thinking these mothers or society need the mothers in jail as the next logical step.

I do agree that people who endanger a child should go to jail. Had any of those children been hurt, but only slightly, or had Madeleine been found alive and well within hours, that's probably what would have happened. But this woman will possibly live the rest of her life knowing her oldest child came to a horrible end, and believe me, she can't possibly not feel some guilt regarding that, no matter what public face she puts on. Even crime victims who clearly didn't do anything wrong to become victims blame themselves - it's a natural part of the process, no matter the real level of guilt the outside world might think is fair. Victims blame themselves much more than we do, from all the evidence I've ever seen. Their statements to the contrary are generally because they can't take much more guilt being heaped on them than they've already put on themselves.


Shrinky

That is a tragic story and I can see your point in relation to that case.

As we dont know all the facts in Madelaines McCanns case, and while there maybe proof or they find out the parents did more than just leave their children, I cannot believe they are not guilty. It is more than a gut feeling, it is the lies they have told, the inconsistencies in the stories from them, their friends, the witnesses, employees. There is just so much that doesnt make sense and if you have followed this right from the beginning you will know what I am talking about, ie; the unlocked or locked door, the window which was jammied or not and all the other inconsistencies. There is something wrong with all of this and because we dont know what the police do have we can only go on what we have heard in the media, being the TV, newspapers, interviews with the McCanns, and statements from the LE. But in saying that we still are not sure that what we hear and read at the moment is fact.

 

[shrinkydink]

That is a tragic story and I can see your point in relation to that case.

As we dont know all the facts in Madelaines McCanns case, and while there maybe proof or they find out the parents did more than just leave their children, I cannot believe they are not guilty. It is more than a gut feeling, it is the lies they have told, the inconsistencies in the stories from them, their friends, the witnesses, employees. There is just so much that doesnt make sense and if you have followed this right from the beginning you will know what I am talking about, ie; the unlocked or locked door, the window which was jammied or not and all the other inconsistencies. There is something wrong with all of this and because we dont know what the police do have we can only go on what we have heard in the media, being the TV, newspapers, interviews with the McCanns, and statements from the LE. But in saying that we still are not sure that what we hear and read at the moment is fact.

I guess that's why I still don't blame them - I don't know what is true when I read it & what isn't. Not even close. Accusastions are just too fast & furious & unsubstantiated to make a fair call. When I read that the neighbor had heard Madeleine crying for her parents, it made me sick. I got pretty worked up about that, then a day or so later, the neighbor's supposedly in the papers saying she *never* said any of the things attributed to her. I just feel like it's better to give the parents the benefit of the doubt, at least until someone can come up with one story and have it stick more than a couple of days. Unless and until the police start coughing up some information, I don't know how that will happen, though. I don't know how much I believe the police, either, but with them holding most of their information and evidence so tightly, it's harder than with most other cases, I think.

As far as the safety of the other kids, I do know there were multiple reports of social services checking on the McCanns after they got back to England, which is fair and right. No matter what really happened in Portugal, protecting the children still with the parents has to be a priority.

Shrinky

 

[Shazza]

I guess that's why I still don't blame them - I don't know what is true when I read it & what isn't. Not even close. Accusastions are just too fast & furious & unsubstantiated to make a fair call. When I read that the neighbor had heard Madeleine crying for her parents, it made me sick. I got pretty worked up about that, then a day or so later, the neighbor's supposedly in the papers saying she *never* said any of the things attributed to her. I just feel like it's better to give the parents the benefit of the doubt, at least until someone can come up with one story and have it stick more than a couple of days. Unless and until the police start coughing up some information, I don't know how that will happen, though. I don't know how much I believe the police, either, but with them holding most of their information and evidence so tightly, it's harder than with most other cases, I think.

As far as the safety of the other kids, I do know there were multiple reports of social services checking on the McCanns after they got back to England, which is fair and right. No matter what really happened in Portugal, protecting the children still with the parents has to be a priority.

Shrinky

Lets hope we hear more from the LE soon, this case just seems to round and round, one minute you think there is going to be an arrest and then its back to square one, which I think is where we are still at. I cannot get Madelaines face out of my head, I pray we will soon have the answers and whomever is responisible is dealt with.

 

[southcitymom]

I can tell by your post that you are probably....WRONG!!!

:blowkiss:

 

[ceeaura]

I just had a big post I was going to respond to hear about the differences I see In the Adam Walsh case and Madeleins....I guess it took me to long to get it wrote out because I got logged out and lost it

Adams mom left him with a bunch of other kids playing a video game.She went 75 feet away (25 yards) out of sight but still pretty close,to look at lamps which were out of stock.She left her name and number with a clerk and returned to find Adam gone.She looked for 2 hours on her own for her son.No help from the clerks,security guards or anyone else.Some have said that a security guard made the children playing the video game leave.

The McCanns left 3 three and under children alone in an apartment with a door locked/unlocked.They were a lot further away than 25 yards.They were drinking,probably having a grand ol time.

Back in 1981 things were a lot different than the way things are now.In 26 years we have come a long way in protecting our children.Remember there use to be a time not that long ago that babies and children didn't have to be in a carseat while in a car,seatbelts were not worn and children didn't wear bike helments.Thats why I don't think people were concerned at the time when Adam went missing.John and Reve Walsh has played a big part in how we protect our children today.Our country is not perfect in this at all.I do hope with Madeleines case the whole world will step up and start realizing how important it is to protect our children at all times.

 

[SleuthMom]

Her mentality helped someone take her child, there is actually a difference, and you still don't see, to get that. The person who took her child is the one who is culpable.

Interesting that you always speak about facts but you are speculating someone took Madeleine, the only fact is that she is missing...that someone took her is an speculation.

I am NOT saying this makes it a good idea. The fact that a child is missing shows it wasn't. What I am saying is that over here, MOST people ONLY think it is bad luck that their child was taken, not a sign of bad parenting. They only blame the person who took her, not the parents for leaving her.

I see, basically they are clueless. It is obvious IF someone kidnaps a child under these circumstances they are to blame and held accountable BUT in no way the parents should be let free without being charged for negligence because their own actions led to the crime.

Yes, hold people accountable, but could they please be held accountable for what they actually did and not made up stories like swinging and child abuse according to American law - a law that does not apply to this case? So many people want to assume they are even capable of murder, which is a pretty big jump, based on the lack of evidence, and the shabby evidence thus far.

I never thought about them as swingers but nothing surprises me about people in general and even if they were that's their choice, they are adults..my only issue is as a parent your actions causes harm to your children, like in this case then I do have a problem with it.

Seriously, I have read more than once on this board what a shame it is they can't just go ahead and arrest them now, even lacking any proof they did anything worse than leave their children home alone.

They should be charged IF there is enough evidence, BUT they should be charged for neglect which I think will happen eventually.

Some would argue their child being take was some sort of punishment, but people here seem to not think that is punishment enough.

Of course is not punishment enough. Do we let free the "repented" thief or the rapist who someone took justice in their own hands and cut his "thing"? No, there is a legal process, and the Mc Canns should not be the exception. Maddie still missing and they have two kids that need to be taken into consideration.

That doesn't seem just a little legally shaky to you? Again, dumb as it was, it was not a crime for them to leave their children sleeping while they went to dinner. And, much as you don't want to believe it, in a lot of the world, that is considered within the realm of "normal." Not wise, but not unheard of and generally not condemned, either.

Oh, I believe you. Some parents are just idiotic. You find them anywhere in the world, nevertheless the little person paying for it was Madeleine and she still missing. Just because of cultural issues, the parents saw that as "normal" (leaving their kids unsupervised) the fact that their daughter is missing BECAUSE OF IT, then the cultural aspect is set aside to deal with the legal aspects and the rights of the child.

As for saying no one but Madeleine is a victim, do you really mean to say that, if your child was missing and now presumed dead, and you knew in your heart this wouldn't be the case if you had only not gone to dinner that night, or had you only gotten a babysitter, you really don't think you'd suffer?

First of all, I am a mom of two boys (number 3 on its way)I would never be in that situation (and yes, I said never) because I know myself and my parenting skills. BUT just to answer your question, if that happens to me I will STILL seeing my MISSING THREE YEAR OLD as the ONLY VICTIM. I would see myself like a complete loser, a terrible mother and probably would be extremely hard to continue living. I would not even DARE to try to put myself as a "victim" because I would be thinking where the heck my little angel is, if she is scared, if she is being tortured or sexually exploited...who knows what else! I would not even dare to feel self-pity for me for being so idiotic, selfish and irresponsible because at the end of the day, I was the one who made my daughter a victim in the first place!

Just because Kate Mccann did something stupid doesn't mean she doesn't suffer the pain any mother would feel if she had lost a child this way. Do you really think she sits around thinking, well I totally asked for my kid to be take for me by my own bad choices, so I have no right to feel any pain? Or do you just assume she feels no pain because you've made her such a non-human in your mind?

I do not know Kate Mc Cann, do you? You speak as you *know* her personally. Just like there are parents who (as you stated) see it "normal" to leave their kids alone and have dinner with friends, NOT every parent feel the same way about their kids. That's reality and unless you know Mrs. Mc Cann PERSONALLY and as a friend, then there is no way you can know that.

 

[shrinkydink]

I just had a big post I was going to respond to hear about the differences I see In the Adam Walsh case and Madeleins....I guess it took me to long to get it wrote out because I got logged out and lost it

Adams mom left him with a bunch of other kids playing a video game.She went 75 feet away (25 yards) out of sight but still pretty close,to look at lamps which were out of stock.She left her name and number with a clerk and returned to find Adam gone.She looked for 2 hours on her own for her son.No help from the clerks,security guards or anyone else.Some have said that a security guard made the children playing the video game leave.

The McCanns left 3 three and under children alone in an apartment with a door locked/unlocked.They were a lot further away than 25 yards.They were drinking,probably having a grand ol time.

Back in 1981 things were a lot different than the way things are now.In 26 years we have come a long way in protecting our children.Remember there use to be a time not that long ago that babies and children didn't have to be in a carseat while in a car,seatbelts were not worn and children didn't wear bike helments.Thats why I don't think people were concerned at the time when Adam went missing.John and Reve Walsh has played a big part in how we protect our children today.Our country is not perfect in this at all.I do hope with Madeleines case the whole world will step up and start realizing how important it is to protect our children at all times.

Well, I don't know, because I never read this version. What I read was that Adam was left alone - the kids who were also on the store playing weren't "with him", they just were also playing video games. They had no connection to him at all, other than the Walsh's contention that the other children acted up, which got them kicked out of the store, and Adam aloong with them, even though Adam - even according to the Walshes was not with those children.

I never heard his mother gave any information to any clerk, so I can't comment on that aspect. I never heard exactly how many yards away she was, but she was far enough away for long enough that, by the time she returned he was long gone and never seen alive again.

I'm not trying to say she was any worse or better than the McCanns. The discussion started with someone saying people leaving small children alone should pay for the crime of child abandonment. My point was simply that, if you do that people like Adam Walsh's mother would end up in prison, too, which I think we all agree wouldn't be the right thing.

As for the "things were different then", that has been one of my points all along - in little European villages, things are here, now a lot different than some posters seem to understand (or were, before Madeliene was abducted).This is not a moral judgement, it's a statement of fact. I see kids left alone to sleep on cars, know people who leave kids along in hotel rooms while they go downstairs to dinner, etc. Again, what they did WAS stupid, but still not nearly as unbelievable or unheard of as a lot of people think. It happens in Switzerland all the time, right or wrong, people here are just not as mistrustful/fearful. Maybe they are more afraid now, but as a lot of people say here, what the McCanns did was no different than someone leaving a child to sleep and having a BBQ in their own big backyard.

It doesn't matter who is right about that before the fact, ultimately, as Madeleine was still taken, and even her mother - the person who made that choice that night, with the father - has been heard on TV many times now, saying she herself cannot believe that thought it was safe. She's alread admitted that in at least two interviews now.

Shrinky

 

[shrinkydink]

Of course is not punishment enough. Do we let free the "repented" thief or the rapist who someone took justice in their own hands and cut his "thing"?

They did not rape or steal. If you don't think losing a child forever is enough punishment for having made such a bad choice, fine. I just haven't ever seen a jury or judge in a Western country agree with you, and I doubt I will this time, either.

Oh, I believe you. Some parents are just idiotic. You find them anywhere in the world, nevertheless the little person paying for it was Madeleine and she still missing. Just because of cultural issues, the parents saw that as "normal" (leaving their kids unsupervised) the fact that their daughter is missing BECAUSE OF IT, then the cultural aspect is set aside to deal with the legal aspects and the rights of the child.

Culture is not "set aside" when the trial is set within that culture. They will be judged by European standards. Maybe this will work for them, maybe not.

First of all, I am a mom of two boys (number 3 on its way)I would never be in that situation (and yes, I said never) because I know myself and my parenting skills. BUT just to answer your question, if that happens to me I will STILL seeing my MISSING THREE YEAR OLD as the ONLY VICTIM. I would see myself like a complete loser, a terrible mother and probably would be extremely hard to continue living. I would not even DARE to try to put myself as a "victim" because I would be thinking where the heck my little angel is, if she is scared, if she is being tortured or sexually exploited...who knows what else! I would not even dare to feel self-pity for me for being so idiotic, selfish and irresponsible because at the end of the day, I was the one who made my daughter a victim in the first place!

Easy to say when you don't have to test that theory. Maybe you would, or maybe not. I'm sure we share the hope you never have to find out how you would really act in that situation.

I do not know Kate Mc Cann, do you? You speak as you *know* her personally. Just like there are parents who (as you stated) see it "normal" to leave their kids alone and have dinner with friends, NOT every parent feel the same way about their kids. That's reality and unless you know Mrs. Mc Cann PERSONALLY and as a friend, then there is no way you can know that.

No, I do not know her personally, but I have lived in one European country or other for sixteen years, so I know a bit about the differences between the mentality here and in America. I am a mother of a child who is only three months older than Madeleine. I have seen what crime does to people. I could be wrong, of course. I base my ideas on what Kate might be feeling on empathy and sympath. I am human enough to assume the woman is capable of pain. If you don't think she is, that's your right. You don't know her, either, so I don't know why you're so sure the way you think you would feel in her shoes should be applied to her in any way at all.

Shrinky

 

[SleuthMom]

You don't know her, either, so I don't know why you're so sure the way you think you would feel in her shoes should be applied to her in any way at all.

Oh, I make no judgments over that but I do leave the door open that just because she "lost" a daughter (which I personally think she is involved) does not mean she should react in the same way most people would or she should feel in the same way they do. Assuming she is "suffering" is just that, an assumption.

Easy to say when you don't have to test that theory. Maybe you would, or maybe not. I'm sure we share the hope you never have to find out how you would really act in that situation.

I do not know why you say is "easy" to say when you asked me that question. Anyhow, the way I am towards my kids NOW and the way I raise them and the way I care for them indicates the kind of choices I make and I will make, this is just simply common sense.

 

[KOOL LOOK]

I just had a big post I was going to respond to hear about the differences I see In the Adam Walsh case and Madeleins....I guess it took me to long to get it wrote out because I got logged out and lost it

Adams mom left him with a bunch of other kids playing a video game.She went 75 feet away (25 yards) out of sight but still pretty close,to look at lamps which were out of stock.She left her name and number with a clerk and returned to find Adam gone.She looked for 2 hours on her own for her son.No help from the clerks,security guards or anyone else.Some have said that a security guard made the children playing the video game leave.

The McCanns left 3 three and under children alone in an apartment with a door locked/unlocked.They were a lot further away than 25 yards.They were drinking,probably having a grand ol time.

Back in 1981 things were a lot different than the way things are now.In 26 years we have come a long way in protecting our children.Remember there use to be a time not that long ago that babies and children didn't have to be in a carseat while in a car,seatbelts were not worn and children didn't wear bike helments.Thats why I don't think people were concerned at the time when Adam went missing.John and Reve Walsh has played a big part in how we protect our children today.Our country is not perfect in this at all.I do hope with Madeleines case the whole world will step up and start realizing how important it is to protect our children at all times.

Exactly, thanking you for posting this, for I can't fathom much more of the :sick: :sick: :sick:

This needed to be said, thanks again.

 

[ny_]

Personally, I would hold Gerry McCann equally responsible as Kate McCann for the decision to leave their kids alone. He's their parent too.

Ya, I don't get that either. I mean, obviously it was supposed to be a "family vacation" because they took the kids with them. If they wanted soooo much privacy and time away from the children, why wouldn't they have just left them in the UK with a nanny or relative?

And, I agree--it is Madeleine who has paid the ultimate price for their inability to parent in an effective and responsible manner.

I agree. I'm single & don't have kids myself, but I have friends who are married/parents. Most of them work/commute long hours. They take 2 types of vacations:

1) Family vacations--since they don't get to spend a lot of time together (kids are often sleeping by the time dad and/or mom gets home), they spend a lot of time together during the day. Meals are eaten together early as a family. And mom/dad call it an early night.

2) Romantic getaways--mom & dad need some alone time (perfectly healthy & normal). They leave the kids with grandparents or other trusted adults. Late dinners, more drinking, sleeping in late, lazy beach time, etc. These tend to be just a weekend or long weekend because they don't want to spend a lot of time away from their kids.

And yes, I think things like class and access to the media play a role. Consider the case of Annette Sorensen, a Danish woman who left her child outside a restaurant in NY in 1997 while she had dinner with her boyfriend (the baby's father):
http://www.cnn.com/US/9705/14/denmark.parents/

At least she could see her child outside of the restaurant window. And thankfully nothing happened to the child. Note the quote from the person in charge of child care services about how the NYPD isn't expected to take Danish law/custom re: leaving children alone.

Her claim for false arrest was rejected, but she was compensated for a rights issue:
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F40910F834550C768DDDAB0994D1494D81&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fSubjects%2fC%2fChildren%20and%20Youth

Or this case of a mother who desperately tried to arrange child care & when it fell through, was afraid to come home early for fear she'd lose her job (she was a single mom supporting her family with solely her income):
http://www.photius.com/feminocracy/home_alone_031019_nyt.html

I wonder how Sorensen & Bratwaithe would have been treated if they had access to the money and influential people the McCanns do? I'm guessing they would've been treated a lot differently. Bratwaithe had to arrange bail just to attend her children's funeral.

I've read in other threads that the hotel staff had approached the McCanns about using child care & warned them of burglaries in the resort. Now, if that is true, that means the McCanns showed an even greater disregard for their children's safety. Why not use the child care service available at the resort? Or eat together as a family? Or call it an early night? Or bring someone from home to watch the kids?

I lock the door to my home and my car. While it would still mean a criminal was guilty for breaking into either if I didn't, locking them is a simple precaution which can prevent the crime from even happening to start with. And we don't know for sure Madeline was abducted. Any more than we can prove her parents were involved.

 

[kittykat1]

I hope with all my heart that this isn't true because if it is, my children are hosed!

I respectfully disagree with you. I can put myself in your children's position (I am a grown woman with two children). I am not hosed. Instead of doing what she does, I do what she doesn't and this makes me a great mom!

 

[ThoughtFox]

I don't think that "European Custom" or "European Law" is going to come to their rescue for this reason:

Some of the other parents had nannies and babysitters. Therefore, the McCanns made a conscious decision NOT to have a nanny or a babysitter on multiple nights when they were "out."

They cannot say that "everyone" was leaving their children alone. I believe some parents might have left older children alone there - I don't know. But three tiny children alone night after night, with at least one unlocked door?

And I don't believe for a minute that people in Europe are buying the "I come from a small town and never lock my door" plea from the McCanns.

I have read about their background - they studied in Glasgow - not a small town. They lived in New Zealand. These folks are world travellers who realize there are dangers, and they are doctors who know all the things that can happen to children because they've studied medicine.

Ignorance or "Stupidity" is never a good excuse, I don't care what country you are in. And they can't plead that they were naive, because they weren't just small town hicks.