Huckaby and the Arson Fires

[nursebeeme]

ITA. Reading everyone's great thoughts in this thread is rather creeping me out this morning. I'm left feeling that between the arsons and the alleged poisonings, MH was a classic revenge killer in the making. You cross her and she'll get back at you.

MH will be a case study for sure.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/widows/2.html

(snip and overall good article at the above link)
Revenge Killers are typically obsession-driven; hate or love or jealousy are the most common factors. They are as rare as sexual predators but, when pushed, they strike with a vengeance. While many female killers are usually much younger — the average age is mid-20s to early 30s — Martha Wise of Ohio committed her crimes at the age of forty. A spinster when she found her true love, she was overjoyed. But, her family objected to her choice, as did her minister. (Her beau, Walter Johns, was a much younger man.) In revenge, she fed three of the more vocal family members a deadly dose of cyanide and torched the church. When apprehended and her crimes became public knowledge, the press dubbed her "Lady Borgia of America" after the infamous Italian noblewoman whose actions she emulated. Wise told the judge that the devil made her do it, but the State of Ohio, being unable to catch the devil, threw the total blame on her and locked her away for life.

I know Q! Me too... I have been having "single white female" thoughts!

 

[Sweetie_PI]

Was it a church sponsored residential home for women who had problems? Economic, or had mental illness? Was the rent reduced? If she put the gasoline in the baby bottle to set someone up, I wonder if toxicology should be done on her "sickly" kid. Muchausaen's and By Proxy is a form of MPD - a dissociative disorder.

I stick by my MPD theory (also known as DID) and think she exhibits the "subtle" version, and yes, "they" and the executive persona do know right from wrong. Doesn't excuse anything.

What were the grounds for the divorce. Seems like there was a LOT of covering up ...

What did MH's ex mean stating she had a rough patch but "got training" and got a job and was making "good money"? What training did she get? She worked 4 years after the marriage as a checkout clerk at Food4Less/FoodMaxx which can offer lower pxes as their labor costs are lower - shoppers get to bag their own groceries there. That's not much more than min. wage.

 

[Salem]

I think they are going to be coming up with a new personality disorder for this chickypoo. Maybe something like Huckaby Combined Personality Disorder which will include symptoms of pyromania, Munchausen's, thieving, agression towards others, with intent to harm self.

Or do we already have a name for all of this?

Salem

 

[oceanblueeyes]

All of what you stated combined with the innocent mask of being a woman....how scary. You wouldn't see one coming at you until it's too late.

And that is what I fear has happened to many abused children. While we all closely guarded the hen house looking out for the suspicious male fox it may not have been the male in these children's lives that should have been closely watched after all.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Was it a church sponsored residential home for women who had problems? Economic, or had mental illness? Was the rent reduced? If she put the gasoline in the baby bottle to set someone up, I wonder if toxicology should be done on her "sickly" kid. Muchausaen's and By Proxy is a form of MPD - a dissociative disorder.

I stick by my MPD theory (also known as DID) and think she exhibits the "subtle" version, and yes, "they" and the executive persona do know right from wrong. Doesn't excuse anything.

What were the grounds for the divorce. Seems like there was a LOT of covering up ...

What did MH's ex mean stating she had a rough patch but "got training" and got a job and was making "good money"? What training did she get? She worked 4 years after the marriage as a checkout clerk at Food4Less/FoodMaxx which can offer lower pxes as their labor costs are lower - shoppers get to bag their own groceries there. That's not much more than min. wage.

I think he said after then she found her a job with some type of medical facility but quit.

imo

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Some arsonists do it simply for the pleasure, power, rage and control they feel. That is why many of them will stay at the crime scene and watch "their work" with pride. I have read they love all the attention it brings with the firetrucks rushing to the scene or the news crew showing up. They certainly have to be sociopathic to do this imo.

imoo

It doesn't make sense that MH would start a fire with one of the women in the house already in jail. It would narrow the field of suspects down. When you mentioned that the arsonist would have pride in their work, I'm now wondering if she could have set that second fire because she didn't want anyone to take credit for her "work".

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I think they are going to be coming up with a new personality disorder for this chickypoo. Maybe something like Huckaby Combined Personality Disorder which will include symptoms of pyromania, Munchausen's, thieving, agression towards others, with intent to harm self.

Or do we already have a name for all of this?

Salem

Yes, we do...it is called Pure Evil.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Was it a church sponsored residential home for women who had problems? Economic, or had mental illness? Was the rent reduced? If she put the gasoline in the baby bottle to set someone up, I wonder if toxicology should be done on her "sickly" kid. Muchausaen's and By Proxy is a form of MPD - a dissociative disorder.

I stick by my MPD theory (also known as DID) and think she exhibits the "subtle" version, and yes, "they" and the executive persona do know right from wrong. Doesn't excuse anything.

What were the grounds for the divorce. Seems like there was a LOT of covering up ...

What did MH's ex mean stating she had a rough patch but "got training" and got a job and was making "good money"? What training did she get? She worked 4 years after the marriage as a checkout clerk at Food4Less/FoodMaxx which can offer lower pxes as their labor costs are lower - shoppers get to bag their own groceries there. That's not much more than min. wage.

She does not exhibit any signs or symptoms of DID (MPD). She has full memory of what happens when she is acting out. Go listen to her talk about not only when Sandra was missing, but her actions during the time the other child was drugged. There is nothing that points to DID (MPD) in anything that has been presented so far.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Thanks to the fine young journalists at Tracy Press we now have a new article about Huckaby and the fires.

Huckaby linked to SoCal arson case

If I only had the article first posted in this thread, I really would think that MH was the obvious choice for the arson. But the above article from the Tracy Press makes it very difficult for me to believe that.

"Orange County Superior Court records show that Lloyd, 47, was charged with a felony count of arson on July 19, 2007. She spent 10 days in jail and was placed on suicide watch. The case against her was later dismissed."

What did Lloyd do that led LE to think she was suicidal. It seems odd that an innocent woman would be suicidal, I'm not saying that she is guilty, just that it could indicated that Lloyd has "issues" of her own.

The first fire broke out on July 19 and the other was eight days later — while Lloyd was in jail.

If the suicide watch is an indication that Lloyd has mental issues, it's possible that Lloyd had a friend light the second fire while she was in jail to "prove" that Lloyd was not responsible for the first one.

La Palma police Capt. Jim Enright said today that Huckaby was considered a person of interest in two fires set at a home where she lived in 2007.

I would think that everyone living in the house would be a person of interest. Its easy to look at MH being a POI knowing what she has done most recently and assuming she did this as well, but it sounds like police had good reason to believe Lloyd was the perp with here:

Lloyd said police pointed to her attitude, military experience and the fact that she had sent her 13-year-old daughter to live with a babysitter in Los Angeles 10 days earlier as evidence that she had committed the arson. Her landlord also implicated her, she said.

“Either she (Huckaby) wanted my bedroom, or she blackmailed the landlord and it got too out of whack, because six days after I was locked up, the landlord’s house was on fire,” said Lloyd.

Lloyd's explanation sounds odd, why would she think that Melissa set her room on fire so Melissa could have the room to herself. Why would a person burn a room they wanted to live in? The blackmail thing sounds weird too. Coupled with the other comments Lloyd made about the landlords strict and odd rules, it sounds like the landlord has issues as well.
And why would Lloyd have stayed there if the landlord was that bad.

If I were Lloyd I would want to just put the issue behind me instead of having my name connected with the incident again. Could be interpreted as being an "attention seeker" similar to MH's talking to the press about how her name was connected to the drugging of a child.

Lloyd says that she wants to clear her name, but was that necessary if the charges were dropped? Is La Palma such a small town that everyone would know that she had been been implicated and/or why would an arson have enough press coverage for that to happen regardless of the size of the town? Lloyd has more bad things to say about the landlord than she does about MH, is this more about Lloyd having a grudge against the landlord?

I'm not saying that MH didn't do it, Lloyd just seems hinky to me so I'm not sure I believe her.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Was it a church sponsored residential home for women who had problems? Economic, or had mental illness? Was the rent reduced? If she put the gasoline in the baby bottle to set someone up, I wonder if toxicology should be done on her "sickly" kid. Muchausaen's and By Proxy is a form of MPD - a dissociative disorder.

I keep getting that impression from the second article listed, it just seems like a lot of the women there have "issues". And despite the landlord being difficult and the house being "toxic" Lloyd remained in the house.

Münchausen syndrome is a psychiatric disorder in which those affected feign disease, illness, or psychological trauma in order to draw attention or sympathy to themselves. It is in a class of disorders known as factitious disorders which involve "illnesses" whose symptoms are either self-induced or falsified by the patient. It is also sometimes known as hospital addiction syndrome.
Münchausen syndrome is related to Münchausen syndrome by proxy (MSbP/MSP), which refers to the abuse of another being (typically a child) as a result of having a psychological disorder.
...In Münchausen syndrome, the affected person exaggerates or creates symptoms of illnesses in themselves or their child/children in order to gain investigation, treatment, attention, sympathy, and comfort from medical personnel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munchausen_syndrome

As to Munchausen being a DO, Wikipedia goes on to say that: "It is distinct from hypochondriasis in that patients with Münchausen syndrome are aware that they are exaggerating, whereas sufferers of hypochondriasis believe they actually have a disease." MPD implies that the sufferer is disassociated and doesn't have control or awareness, but those that suffer from Munchausen's are aware that they are full of . To me it sounds like more of a compulsion, somewhat like the compulsion to start fires.

What were the grounds for the divorce. Seems like there was a LOT of covering up ...

I totally agree with you there.

What did MH's ex mean stating she had a rough patch but "got training" and got a job and was making "good money"? What training did she get? She worked 4 years after the marriage as a checkout clerk at Food4Less/FoodMaxx which can offer lower pxes as their labor costs are lower - shoppers get to bag their own groceries there. That's not much more than min. wage.

I question the accuracy of a lot of the reporting regarding MH's employment history. The article reports that MH was "a medical biller at Associated Therapists in Huntington Beach" in May of 2005. If the reports I've seen numerous times that MH worked for Food4Less/FoodMaxx for 4 years is correct, if MH was fired from the "Medical Billing" in the same month she started and went directly to F4Less to be there for 4 years she would have had to work there until May 2009. That's obviously impossible because right now its only April of 2009. I'm also pretty sure MH had been let go from F4L quite some time ago, making the reports seem even less credible.

Something else that first article mentions in that same paragraph is that "Huckaby also got $237 a month in public assistance." That could be foodstamps, but I thought you had a much lower income to receive those. I've read in other articles that she was receiving $600 per month, that sounds like social security disability so I don't know too much about that stuff, but maybe the $237 was SS as well. But if she was on disability social security wouldn't she have had to gone through major mental illness assesment for that and prescribed meds?

 

[elainebenice]

When this case broke, it was an obvious tragedy for all involved and I had no doubt that MH's family's honest beliefs were that this was totally out of character for her, etc. It has become increasingly difficult for me to believe that the belief that her actions were completely out of character couldn't be as widespread as it first appeared within her family. At this point, it is basically impossible for me to believe that there were not multiple people who knew of multiple "issues" going on with MH.

I'm not trying to say at all that the family statements I heard were in anyway intentionally misleading or they have any culpability in ANY of her actions, so please don't go in that direction. I am just posting an observation that I really haven't seen any discussions about. Honestly, I can't keep up with you guys so I am always playing catch up on threads and may have missed some discussion of statements from family/friends of MH since the initial few days. Even on the first day, they were definitely not making any excuses for her alleged behavior, but I just got the impression that even though she may have hit some rough patches in her life that were known to the family, the family did NOT know of the MH we now think we know. A few shoplifting charges are a LONG way from arson and murder. Personally, I've always felt arson and the mental processes behind the crime are on a very similar level to murder to many ways. I didn't even think this could get any worse, but I have a sick feeling in my stomach after now seeing "arson" added to the topics in this thread.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I think they are going to be coming up with a new personality disorder for this chickypoo. Maybe something like Huckaby Combined Personality Disorder which will include symptoms of pyromania, Munchausen's, thieving, agression towards others, with intent to harm self.

Or do we already have a name for all of this?

Salem

Chicypoo? That's just too adorable to be applicable to MH. :cheerful:

She could have multiple mental illnesses depending how you group the various symptoms she shows, how they have escalated, other symptoms that she has that etc.

I bet a lot of psychologists/psychiatrists would just about do anything to take a crack at figuring MH out because she is such an unusual "specimen".

I've been reading about the various disorders mentioned and all of them seem to have a set of different symptoms and if someone meets a certain number of them they qualify for the diagnosis. However, if someone doesn't meet that certain number they can qualify for "Not Otherwise Specified". I vote the new disorder should be "Monster NOS".

 

[SuziQ]

Was the public assistance and disability right after MH gave birth to her daughter? I know I collected that much from the State of Calif. after I gave birth to my daughter because I was unemployed when I had her. Then after six weeks I was able to go back on unemployement. I didn't apply for public assistance though, can't help out there.

 

[txsvicki]

I'd like to know what kind of house this was that they had to follow weird rules, and why the women were living there unless it was cheaper than renting apartments. I tend to believe the woman since she had a long history of living in the home despite the odd landlord insisting that only expensive Tide be used to wash clothes. That's really odd. She's also a veteran and had a decent job with the government. Also, there was yet another sort of note written on her door telling her to get out. It sounds like the landlady and her were both getting paranoid and suspecting each other of setting the fire and the second fire. But, they didn't know who would have the history of writing a note connected to a crime. This makes three notes now that have shown up.

 

[SuziQ]

txvicki, I wonder if MH was feeding false stories to the landlord to make her suspect the other roomate.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Was the public assistance and disability right after MH gave birth to her daughter? I know I collected that much from the State of Calif. after I gave birth to my daughter because I was unemployed when I had her. Then after six weeks I was able to go back on unemployement. I didn't apply for public assistance though, can't help out there.

If the report regarding her employment as a medical biller is accurate, she would have been there about a year after she had her little girl, because her daughter is 5 now. But even when she was a medical biller they report that she was receiving $200+ from somewhere. So that part stumps me.

From what I've read she was receiving the $600 dollars at the time she was arrested so since she had been fired from the grocery store sometime before that I guess it could be unemployment. Does you qualify for unemployment if you are fired?

 

[elainebenice]

If this was 25 years ago, maybe she would have a shot at some type of viable mental insanity defense, but in 2009 this defense has practically zero success, especially in a situation like this. I guess its possible there may be some of her many charges have some conceivable insanity defense based on the circumstances, but it really doesn't matter. There are MORE than enough charges where MH has zero chance of success with a mental defense to put her away for the rest of her life if found guilty. Based on numerous actions by MH the police documented after the crimes, she had a certain knowledge of guilt based on her attempts to cover up the crime. Even if these were lame attempts, they were attempts and MH was not insane when she committed the murder/assault she committed in this case in a legal way. This is not to say she isn't crazier than an out house rat, because I personally believe she is a total loon and a violent loon on top of it all, but there are men and women who fit that description entering regular prisons in this country every day.

There is a very necessary place in our judicial system for the insanity defense, but there was a time in this country where the judiciary allowed this defense to manipulate the outcomes of trials in a way that was not the intention of this defense and thereby removed a lot credibility from defendants who may have used this defense. There seems to have been a major overcorrection at some point by the system itself and juries that turned everything around in a complete 180. It seems that we have finally come back to earth for the most part and the defense is generally successful where it should be and unsuccessful when used by defendants who were legally insane regarding their culpability in the crime.

just my opinion.....

 

[SuziQ]

If the report regarding her employment as a medical biller is accurate, she would have been there about a year after she had her little girl, because her daughter is 5 now. But even when she was a medical biller they report that she was receiving $200+ from somewhere. So that part stumps me.

From what I've read she was receiving the $600 dollars at the time she was arrested so since she had been fired from the grocery store sometime before that I guess it could be unemployment. Does you qualify for unemployment if you are fired?

Sometimes, depending on if you succesfully appeal to the unemployment agency.

 

[i.b.nora]

A new article about the arson fires:

Huckaby's SoCal Neighbors Speak Out About Fires

"Wanda called 911 when the second fire broke out and says emergency crews found Huckaby and her daughter inside.

"He knocked on the door ... I don't know how many times," remembered Wanda. "Eventually she came to the door. She just came to the door looking as if 'What?'"

Terry also remembered the authorities having trouble getting Huckaby out of the house.

"Melissa claims she didn't hear the boom. Didn't know the house was on fire," said Terry. "The police and the fire department almost had to kick the door down to get in.""

 

[JoeFromLB]

Okay, that is really weird.