IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #13

[JaimeInLA]

From the last thread regarding this illustration:

The theory I have regarding what happened to the girls is illustrated in the map: either the bikes were carried from Maiden Lane to the gate, or the girls were taken through the gate to Maiden Lane. Others have suggested that the girls had first contact with a perp on the trail, then they walked down the trail and then they went somewhere to a car. I'm not sure what route that theory involves ... so I created the map to illustrate what makes the most sense to me. If I understand the other theories better, I can create maps for that too.

Otto - I'm going to vote 100% no on this theory. Look at the photo of the police walking the shore of the lake, after it has drained. They are walking in the mud, because the "land" strip is crazy overgrown. That is some THICK overgrowth. It is only about 1 foot wide and solidly covered with trees, and high weeds. Maybe a boy would have tried to go through that, but as a former little girl myself -- NO WAY.

People keep ruling out a boat because they think it would be too visible. This corner of the lake is barely visible at all (Per Ollipop). And look how close it would be to take a boat from the jetty to the woods by Maiden lane -- Closer than walking either way! Only about 200 feet. Can you do a map to show that scenario?

To me, it makes the most sense. Girls leave bikes by gate, go through gate, get onto boat, get taken to Maiden Lane. That could be accomplished VERY quickly. TG could have been right about the timeline and just ridden right by them in the boat and never saw them. We know a paddle boat was borrowed without the owner's permission, and as far as we know, the borrower never came forward.

It seems clear as a bell to me.

 

[threecrazykids]

Ok call me crazy but this "Maiden Lane" that has come up - this "lane" isn't some place a car could really hide per se without being seen from say, the parking lot, right? I find it VERY hard to believe that a vehicle could be sitting anywhere along the inside of that fence trail and NOT be seen by people at the lake...

I guess when I look at the pictures of the lake (taken during the early stages) it looks like you can look almost all the way around the lake (trail) except for the little stretch where it's hidden - however, if a vehicle were parked on the INSIDE of the fence (literally next to the lake) it isn't thick enough brush that a vehicle wouldn't be seen is it?

I need to get my bearings on this I think...

 

[JaimeInLA]

Ok call me crazy but this "Maiden Lane" that has come up - this "lane" isn't some place a car could really hide per se without being seen from say, the parking lot, right? I find it VERY hard to believe that a vehicle could be sitting anywhere along the inside of that fence trail and NOT be seen by people at the lake...

I guess when I look at the pictures of the lake (taken during the early stages) it looks like you can look almost all the way around the lake (trail) except for the little stretch where it's hidden - however, if a vehicle were parked on the INSIDE of the fence (literally next to the lake) it isn't thick enough brush that a vehicle wouldn't be seen is it?

I need to get my bearings on this I think...

Maiden lane is completely, 100% hidden in the woody area on the east side of the lake. It would be entirely possible to hide a vehicle in there. It is an old abandoned road that is so hidden, even Olli, a local who has lived right by it for 5 years, did not know it was there.

 

[otto]

Otto - I'm going to vote 100% no on this theory. Look at the photo of the police walking the shore of the lake, after it has drained. They are walking in the mud, because the "land" strip is crazy overgrown. That is some THICK overgrowth. It is only about 1 foot wide and solidly covered with trees, and high weeds. Maybe a boy would have tried to go through that, but as a former little girl myself -- NO WAY.

People keep ruling out a boat because they think it would be too visible. This corner of the lake is barely visible at all (Per Ollipop). And look how close it would be to take a boat from the jetty to the woods by Maiden lane -- Closer than walking either way! Only about 200 feet. Can you do a map to show that scenario?

To me, it makes the most sense. Girls leave bikes by gate, go through gate, get onto boat, get taken to Maiden Lane. That could be accomplished VERY quickly. TG could have been right about the timeline and just ridden right by them in the boat and never saw them. We know a paddle boat was borrowed without the owner's permission, and as far as we know, the borrower never came forward.

It seems clear as a bell to me.

I'm not suggesting that the girls voluntarily walked along the fence to Maiden Lane, or even that they did (bikes could have been staged). The person that abducted the girls has no intention of being kind to them, so that perp would not care if the girls were scratched or were uncomfortable navigating through the weeds and shrubs along the fence.

 

[otto]

Ok call me crazy but this "Maiden Lane" that has come up - this "lane" isn't some place a car could really hide per se without being seen from say, the parking lot, right? I find it VERY hard to believe that a vehicle could be sitting anywhere along the inside of that fence trail and NOT be seen by people at the lake...

I guess when I look at the pictures of the lake (taken during the early stages) it looks like you can look almost all the way around the lake (trail) except for the little stretch where it's hidden - however, if a vehicle were parked on the INSIDE of the fence (literally next to the lake) it isn't thick enough brush that a vehicle wouldn't be seen is it?

I need to get my bearings on this I think...

This "Maiden Lane" is indeed a place where someone could park a vehicle and not be visible to anyone anywhere. I'm suggesting that a vehicle was not on Evansdale Trail.

 

[roseofsharon]

The reasoning I'm using is that, given the location of the bikes, how could the girls have completely vanished, and if it was staged, what's the most secluded, secretive way to get bikes to the gate.

Sometimes, I think about a reverse situation, but at the Maiden Lane location from the other side of the path on Arbutus Road.

RC says he saw the girls at his home on Lake Street. Lake Street runs down to Arbutus/South Evans. The girls may have been lured into someone's property very close to Maiden Lane, but once the perp had the girls secured inside the home, he quickly took the bikes down the path to the gate.

I think he is a local person and knew the path well. This may be why there was no sighting of the girls actually at Meyers Lake. I don't think that the person who told Aunt T he saw E and L saw them, but possibly some other children.

Just MOO.

 

[JaimeInLA]

I'm not suggesting that the girls voluntarily walked along the fence to Maiden Lane, or even that they did (bikes could have been staged). The person that abducted the girls has no intention of being kind to them, so that perp would not care if the girls were scratched or were uncomfortable navigating through the weeds and shrubs along the fence.

My problem with that is 1) TG would surely have seen them then - they'd be RIGHT NEXT TO the fence, instead of out in a boat, blocked by trees and weeds. 2) How the heck would a perp get 2 girls through that jungle? Even with a gun to their heads, I think they'd be all, "ewwww!" and "ouch!!" and I don't see ANY way he could have carried them through it. Remember, Lyric weighs more than most adult females. (145 lbs) I just don't see it.

 

[Copper]

Otto - I'm going to vote 100% no on this theory. Look at the photo of the police walking the shore of the lake, after it has drained. They are walking in the mud, because the "land" strip is crazy overgrown. That is some THICK overgrowth. It is only about 1 foot wide and solidly covered with trees, and high weeds. Maybe a boy would have tried to go through that, but as a former little girl myself -- NO WAY.

People keep ruling out a boat because they think it would be too visible. This corner of the lake is barely visible at all (Per Ollipop). And look how close it would be to take a boat from the jetty to the woods by Maiden lane -- Closer than walking either way! Only about 200 feet. Can you do a map to show that scenario?

To me, it makes the most sense. Girls leave bikes by gate, go through gate, get onto boat, get taken to Maiden Lane. That could be accomplished VERY quickly. TG could have been right about the timeline and just ridden right by them in the boat and never saw them. We know a paddle boat was borrowed without the owner's permission, and as far as we know, the borrower never came forward.

It seems clear as a bell to me.

Two questions about the boat theory as I try to see it in my mind.

1. What happens to the boat after they reach the shore by Maiden Lane? Would there need to be a second perp there waiting to take custody of the girls?

2. How exactly does the perp with the boat know to have a boat ready to be at the exact spot where the girls will be while they are riding their bikes? Is the perp sitting in his boat waiting for any little girl to come along?

 

[Mimiof8]

Not that difficult to post the link

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdale_search/
IMO it is really bad form to post someone's address on a public site like WS, even if it is available on the interwebs.



Yes, you are right. The person who tweeted it doesn't seem to be a member of MSM.

Not sure what you mean by this BBM?

 

[cluciano63]

Go to scanner if you want to see about that tweet...

 

[roseofsharon]

My problem with that is 1) TG would surely have seen them then - they'd be RIGHT NEXT TO the fence, instead of out in a boat, blocked by trees and weeds. 2) How the heck would a perp get 2 girls through that jungle? Even with a gun to their heads, I think they'd be all, "ewwww!" and "ouch!!" and I don't see ANY way he could have carried them through it. Remember, Lyric weighs more than most adult females. (145 lbs) I just don't see it.

That's why I think the abduction may have occurred from the opposite side. The girls riding by someone's driveway may have even stopped to check a tire on the bike and the perp offering to fix it and the girls going up a driveway to perp's garage/shed. IMO

 

[imamaze]

Don't forget anything in the scanner thread stays in the scanner thread. No discussing on main thread for the girls.

:tyou:

 

[JaimeInLA]

Two questions about the boat theory as I try to see it in my mind.

1. What happens to the boat after they reach the shore by Maiden Lane? Would there need to be a second perp there waiting to take custody of the girls? - Possibly. One perp puts them in a vehicle, the other returns the paddle boat. But it COULD work with one perp. He gets them up on the shore, tazes them, loads them into a vehicle, cuffs them to the seats, then goes and returns the boat. It only came from 3 doors down (the boat now rests in the front yard of the house 3 doors from Maiden Lane)

2. How exactly does the perp with the boat know to have a boat ready to be at the exact spot where the girls will be while they are riding their bikes? Is the perp sitting in his boat waiting for any little girl to come along? No. My theory requires that the girls were going to the lake specifically to meet this person. They were riding FAST, this we know. They had been to the lake before, this we know. They rode down Lake Ave. all the time, per the Carpenters. They were going there for a REASON. In my mind, the perp knew that Heather and Misty would be absent that day, and that Grandma would be watching the girls, so they could easily ride down to meet him. It also works with the timeline. Girls seen on camera at 12:11 -- ride down to the lake, pass the Carpenters and wave, park bikes at gate, greet their "friend" and hop on the boat. TG rides by at 12:20-ish and sees the bikes, but doesn't notice the girls in the paddle boat, just behind the trees.

Answers inserted above

 

[LadyPirate]

I have no ideas or theories as to what happened to these little girls, other than to wonder if perhaps they ran away? If so, surely they would have been found by now. I'm leaning towards family involvement and will not be a bit surprised if they surface after DMs trial or sentencing is completed and he is behind bars.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Answers inserted above

I honestly can't get my head around the paddleboat theory, the main reason being...have you ever been in one of those things?

Even getting in is a triumph let alone getting the things to go in the direction you want them to.

There would have been a lot of noise...two girls giggling, splashing, yelping, trying not to tip it over.

They are FUN! But awkward and clumsy.

Whatever happened, happened quietly.

:moo:

 

[Considering]

Otto - I'm going to vote 100% no on this theory. Look at the photo of the police walking the shore of the lake, after it has drained. They are walking in the mud, because the "land" strip is crazy overgrown. That is some THICK overgrowth. It is only about 1 foot wide and solidly covered with trees, and high weeds. Maybe a boy would have tried to go through that, but as a former little girl myself -- NO WAY.

People keep ruling out a boat because they think it would be too visible. This corner of the lake is barely visible at all (Per Ollipop). And look how close it would be to take a boat from the jetty to the woods by Maiden lane -- Closer than walking either way! Only about 200 feet. Can you do a map to show that scenario?

To me, it makes the most sense. Girls leave bikes by gate, go through gate, get onto boat, get taken to Maiden Lane. That could be accomplished VERY quickly. TG could have been right about the timeline and just ridden right by them in the boat and never saw them. We know a paddle boat was borrowed without the owner's permission, and as far as we know, the borrower never came forward.

It seems clear as a bell to me.

Do we know this? I thought it was a rumor that someone thought their paddle boat might have been used without their permission (and that was why LE was asking about someone using a paddle boat on the lake on July 13)? I'm not being snarky. I really want to know.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Do we know this? I thought it was a rumor that someone thought their paddle boat might have been used without their permission (and that was why LE was asking about someone using a paddle boat on the lake on July 13)? I'm not being snarky? I really want to know.

The entire paddle boat is a theory...so far anyway.

LE have asked repeatedly for the person to come forward, so far as we know they have not.

You would have to be deaf dumb and blind to live in Iowa and not know about the girls IMO.

:dunno:

 

[SouthernMom]

I'm not suggesting that the girls voluntarily walked along the fence to Maiden Lane, or even that they did (bikes could have been staged). The person that abducted the girls has no intention of being kind to them, so that perp would not care if the girls were scratched or were uncomfortable navigating through the weeds and shrubs along the fence.

After looking at the pics of the area, I think this is one of the more likely ways the girls were taken away. In order for this to have happened though, would the perp really need to have been very familiar with the area or just be the average perp who drives around and scouts the area before the abduction?

If this was a male/female team, then maybe the female approached from the lake side of the fence and when the girls tried to turn to run the male came up from behind them. A grown male could climb over the fence at the end of Maiden Lane. If someone comes down the lane from either direction, the woman walks to the gravel jetty and just looks at the water and the male just keeps walking around the trail. Mission aborted. I still think one person could pull it off alone if he/she approached them from the lake and had a weapon.

Just trying to think this through and figure out what the most uncomplicated plan would look like. Also thinking it's possible this may not have been a first-timer.

FWIW, I can think of two cases where the perp had a female accomplice and kept the child alive so I am praying there is still hope. Also praying that someone who knows something important will come forward.

 

[SapphireSteel]

After looking at the pics of the area, I think this is one of the more likely ways the girls were taken away. In order for this to have happened though, would the perp really need to have been very familiar with the area or just be the average perp who drives around and scouts the area before the abduction?

If this was a male/female team, then maybe the female approached from the lake side of the fence and when the girls tried to turn to run the male came up from behind them. A grown male could climb over the fence at the end of Maiden Lane. If someone comes down the lane from either direction, the woman walks to the gravel jetty and just looks at the water and the male just keeps walking around the trail. Mission aborted. I still think one person could pull it off alone if he/she approached them from the lake and had a weapon.

Just trying to think this through and figure out what the most uncomplicated plan would look like. Also thinking it's possible this may not have been a first-timer.

FWIW, I can think of two cases where the perp had a female accomplice and kept the child alive so I am praying there is still hope. Also praying that someone who knows something important will come forward.

:rocker:

Agree!

 

[JaimeInLA]

Do we know this? I thought it was a rumor that someone thought their paddle boat might have been used without their permission (and that was why LE was asking about someone using a paddle boat on the lake on July 13)? I'm not being snarky? I really want to know.

I thought Sandy B said it in her last press conference. That someone had come forward about their borrowed paddleboat.