IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #13

[threecrazykids]

I honestly can't get my head around the paddleboat theory, the main reason being...have you ever been in one of those things?

Even getting in is a triumph let alone getting the things to go in the direction you want them to.

There would have been a lot of noise...two girls giggling, splashing, yelping, trying not to tip it over.

They are FUN! But awkward and clumsy.

Whatever happened, happened quietly.

:moo:

I agree with you on this. For one...there HAD to be 2 perps OR one of the girls helping pedal the damn thing or else you'd be going in circles. And...if anyone has ever BEEN in one of these, it certainly is no "getaway vehicle". And getting out?....yeah, good luck doing THAT quietly. IF it was kidnapping by paddle boat, then they went willingly. For crying out loud, you could out swim one person in a paddle boat EASILY and make enough noise and screaming to draw attention.

 

[JaimeInLA]

After looking at the pics of the area, I think this is one of the more likely ways the girls were taken away. In order for this to have happened though, would the perp really need to have been very familiar with the area or just be the average perp who drives around and scouts the area before the abduction?

If this was a male/female team, then maybe the female approached from the lake side of the fence and when the girls tried to turn to run the male came up from behind them. A grown male could climb over the fence at the end of Maiden Lane. If someone comes down the lane from either direction, the woman walks to the gravel jetty and just looks at the water and the male just keeps walking around the trail. Mission aborted. I still think one person could pull it off alone if he/she approached them from the lake and had a weapon.

Just trying to think this through and figure out what the most uncomplicated plan would look like. Also thinking it's possible this may not have been a first-timer.

FWIW, I can think of two cases where the perp had a female accomplice and kept the child alive so I am praying there is still hope. Also praying that someone who knows something important will come forward.

I think the perp WOULD have to be local, just to know of the existence of Maiden Lane. It is not visible from any other road. I also think he had to be local, if a boat was used, because the girls were unlikely to get into the boat with a stranger. I think, IF a boat was used, they knew the perp. (And I strongly believe that a boat was used, row boat, paddle boat, whatever. I know paddle boats are hard to steer, but if he had it backed up to the jetty , pointing in the right direction, it was a STRAIGHT LINE to the woods. And he would have had the girls to help pedal.)

 

[roseofsharon]

I think the perp WOULD have to be local, just to know of the existence of Maiden Lane. It is not visible from any other road. I also think he had to be local, if a boat was used, because the girls were unlikely to get into the boat with a stranger. I think, IF a boat was used, they knew the perp. (And I strongly believe that a boat was used, row boat, paddle boat, whatever. I know paddle boats are hard to steer, but if he had it backed up to the jetty , pointing in the right direction, it was a STRAIGHT LINE to the woods. And he would have had the girls to help pedal.)

The only thing I wonder about with this theory is how the perp was so sure that someone wouldn't come along riding the trail in the same area and hear or see them in the water and be a witness to an abduction.

I guess if this had of happened (been seen), perp would have decided against the abduction with E and L.

imo

 

[nikb]

From this link:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html

I've been trying really hard to get this out of my head and chalk it up to either bad reporting or bad transcribing, but I just can't. A KWWL reporter supposedly said this:

"The girls` grandmother was the last to see these two girls, ages 8 and 10, Friday when they left on their bikes. That`s what kids do. That`s what kids do in the summertime. And they were smart enough to go together, the buddy system.

She says they take this trip all the time. They`ve taken it thousands of times, she said, with no problem. So far investigators are totally baffled and perplexed by their disappearance."

I can't find it on the KWWL site, just this transcript of the JVM show. What "trip" could this be referring to? Thousands of times?

 

[Sere-nity]

Youtube paddle boats for an idea of the sound of them. If you cannot find a youtube video then fill a bathtub with water and slap your hand repeatedly on the surface.

These are loud, clumsy vehicles that tend to fill with water.

There is no way IMO that it could be used quietly... unless someone is pulling them from shore.

 

[SouthernMom]

I think the perp WOULD have to be local, just to know of the existence of Maiden Lane. It is not visible from any other road.

Do you know how many feet along the fenceline the perp would have needed to walk the girls to be hidden by the weeds and trees? I noticed that the strip widens as it approaches the wooded area. Is there a spot that it would be possible to hunker down and hide as someone passed by on the trail? Level of difficulty is no so much an issue (these perps walk into peoples homes at night and somehow keep children quiet enough to walk them right out of the door or window knowing Mom or Dad are sleeping in the next room.) The most important question is "Is it possible?"

 

[Considering]

From this link:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html

I've been trying really hard to get this out of my head and chalk it up to either bad reporting or bad transcribing, but I just can't. A KWWL reporter supposedly said this:

"The girls` grandmother was the last to see these two girls, ages 8 and 10, Friday when they left on their bikes. That`s what kids do. That`s what kids do in the summertime. And they were smart enough to go together, the buddy system.

She says they take this trip all the time. They`ve taken it thousands of times, she said, with no problem. So far investigators are totally baffled and perplexed by their disappearance."

I can't find it on the KWWL site, just this transcript of the JVM show. What "trip" could this be referring to? Thousands of times?

Trip -- as in "Take a trip around the block." Maybe the word isn't used like that where you live? It's common where I am, especially with older people.

 

[nikb]

I agree with you on this. For one...there HAD to be 2 perps OR one of the girls helping pedal the damn thing or else you'd be going in circles. And...if anyone has ever BEEN in one of these, it certainly is no "getaway vehicle". And getting out?....yeah, good luck doing THAT quietly. IF it was kidnapping by paddle boat, then they went willingly. For crying out loud, you could out swim one person in a paddle boat EASILY and make enough noise and screaming to draw attention.

I completely agree that if the paddle boat was involved the girls had to have gone willingly and it probably wasn't quiet. I wouldn't think people laughing and having fun were suspicious and I can see how someone would say they didn't hear anything. The lake couldn't have been completely silent that day right? So I assume people heard 'things' just nothing they considered suspicious enough to remember. Like kids laughing and playing? All IMO and just thoughts because of LE's interest in the paddle boat.

 

[Sunlight]

From this link:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html

I've been trying really hard to get this out of my head and chalk it up to either bad reporting or bad transcribing, but I just can't. A KWWL reporter supposedly said this:

"The girls` grandmother was the last to see these two girls, ages 8 and 10, Friday when they left on their bikes. That`s what kids do. That`s what kids do in the summertime. And they were smart enough to go together, the buddy system.

She says they take this trip all the time. They`ve taken it thousands of times, she said, with no problem. So far investigators are totally baffled and perplexed by their disappearance."



I can't find it on the KWWL site, just this transcript of the JVM show. What "trip" could this be referring to? Thousands of times?

I believe this is a reporter paraphrasing what gma said, which was that they had gone out biking together, usually checked back about every hour for V-8 or something to drink, and that they had done that millions of times...(that is me paraphrasing what I remember, cause I don't have the link) MOO

 

[MNDad]

I think the perp WOULD have to be local, just to know of the existence of Maiden Lane. It is not visible from any other road. I also think he had to be local, if a boat was used, because the girls were unlikely to get into the boat with a stranger. I think, IF a boat was used, they knew the perp. (And I strongly believe that a boat was used, row boat, paddle boat, whatever. I know paddle boats are hard to steer, but if he had it backed up to the jetty , pointing in the right direction, it was a STRAIGHT LINE to the woods. And he would have had the girls to help pedal.)

I don't know. The entrance off Arbutus to the sewage lift station is visible. Low life drifter drives in there to drink or do drugs and realizes he can drive past the building and keep going a ways. Wasting his life away that afternoon, two girls playing hunger games stumble into his view and he thinks they will be perfect addition to his one dude party and he snatches em up and throws them in the car.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Do you know how many feet along the fenceline the perp would have needed to walk the girls to be hidden by the weeds and trees? I noticed that the strip widens as it approaches the wooded area. Is there a spot that it would be possible to hunker down and hide as someone passed by on the trail? Level of difficulty is no so much an issue (these perps walk into peoples homes at night and somehow keep children quiet enough to walk them right out of the door or window knowing Mom or Dad are sleeping in the next room.) The most important question is "Is it possible?"

The bikes were found near the END of the bike trail. (locals please correct me if I have any of this wrong tia).

The dogs traced them from the bikes to the wooded area which is at the very end of the bike trail. This tells me that locals would rarely go there because they would only have to double back right?

So putting these two facts together, the "trap" is pretty deserted most times.

What we have to figure out is how or why they got from their bikes, to the wooded area.

Once they were in the wooded area, they could easily be led to a waiting vehicle on Maiden lane.

Again, only locals would know about this.

So...again, I keep coming back to the placement of the bikes. Were they laying across the path, and the purse obviously thrown? Or were they, as was earlier reported, propped up against the fence with the purse sitting neatly as if placed?

Bikes thrown down implies a rush, which would follow with a sudden abduction.

Bikes and purse PLACED neatly, would imply staging. Sherrif Abben apparently felt they were staged, he was one of the first on the scene.

:moo:

 

[Sunlight]

As far as witnesses are concerned...other than TG saying he swerved around the bikes on the path, no one saw any adults placing the bikes against the fence either...so, whoever did that, was able to do it when no one saw them...as far as we know.

 

[Ryloga]

Youtube paddle boats for an idea of the sound of them. If you cannot find a youtube video then fill a bathtub with water and slap your hand repeatedly on the surface.

These are loud, clumsy vehicles that tend to fill with water.

There is no way IMO that it could be used quietly... unless someone is pulling them from shore.

My in laws have one and it's not at all loud, clumsey, and has never filled with water. Maybe some are loud, I don't know. It is a quiet, leisurely ride. We stand up and switch seats from front to back all the time and have never tipped it or fallen out. I will say that you will get no where fast, that is for sure. It moves by peddles (like a bike). Trying to peddle fast would be exhausting and still would not be a fast get away. IMO

 

[Ryloga]

My in laws have one and it's not at all loud, clumsey, and has never filled with water. Maybe some are loud, I don't know. It is a quiet, leisurely ride. We stand up and switch seats from front to back all the time and have never tipped it or fallen out. I will say that you will get no where fast, that is for sure. It moves by peddles (like a bike). Trying to peddle fast would be exhausting and still would not be a fast get away. IMO

I forgot to mention that IMO, the correct term is pedal boat, rather than paddle boat.

 

[Copper]

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/meyerswater4.jpg

Looking at this picture again, I can see it could be wide enough between the fence and the drop off to walk on. But, it doesn't look as out of sight as I think it's being made out to be. I don't think it would be very hard for someone on the trail to see one/two perps and a couple of girls pushing their way through the weeds.

 

[Sunlight]

Maybe there were two perps on bikes and what TG saw were perp bikes before the kids got there.

 

[cluciano63]

I don't have much to say, except that I hope we are not still discussing the bikes and the fence, etc. months or a year from now...I get flashbacks from so many unsolved cases where things just went round and round and nothing new was ever provided by LE to answer any of the many questions. We still don't know so many things about Lisa Irwin or Isabel Celis' disappearance...I hate to see this case approaching the one-month mark.

 

[nikb]

Trip -- as in "Take a trip around the block." Maybe the word isn't used like that where you live? It's common where I am, especially with older people.

Ohhh that could be. I've heard it used that way around here too. I guess in my mind "around the block" didn't fit in with needing to use the "buddy system." Which I now realize is naive of me. I was picturing a longer trip. But that makes sense. Thanks, now I can stop thinking about it.

 

[Sere-nity]

I forgot to mention that IMO, the correct term is pedal boat, rather than paddle boat.

The difference has been discussed many times.

In the upper midwest a Paddle Boat is a boat that uses pedals to push Paddles.

I have never before heard anyone call them a pedal boat.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The difference has been discussed many times.

In the upper midwest a Paddle Boat is a boat that uses pedals to push Paddles.

I have never before heard anyone call them a pedal boat.

They go around in circles if not steered properly, just like us.

:banghead: