IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16

[superbee]

As long as it's not another Megan is Missing horror flick, I'll give it a shot.

What do you think about The Lovely Bones scenario, with or without the bunker? Could that have happened? The girls were taken from the area, possibly by someone they knew casually and who is familiar with the area ... where did they go? If it was a spontaneous event, why wouldn't they have been found in Maiden Lane? Police would have DNA evidence on the bodies, but still it seems like the obvious first choice for someone acting spontaneously. Where would someone take two children on a Friday afternoon if it was planned, not spontaneous? Are there any old farms in the area?

Did they have a two or three hour head start?

Any old farms, old garages or buildings that could have a hidden room in the floor? When the girls disappeared that day I thought of a movie I saw on tv several years ago. I can't remember the name or the actors in it.

The plot is a young husband and wife are driving across country, and stop for gas at a lonely gas station place. The man is gassing up their suv, the wife tells him she is going in to use the washroom.

She never comes out. He goes in looking for her, and nobody admits she ever came in the door. At the end some guy had her stashed in a room under his big shop. Movies usually don't bother me much, but that one sure did. We and I do not gas up at lonely gas stations any more.

 

[otto]

Paddleboats in relation to the bikes ...

 

[whittymom4]

The only thing I can speculate is about the possibility of a bunker built into a crop field.

It seems unlikely to me because the bunker would have to be able to withstand 20 tons of weight going over it. Yes, I mean 40,000 pounds. That would require more than just 2x4s for shoring, I think.

It would definitely be a major project and I can't imagine any farmer not noticing someone carrying out such an extensive project in their field.

The whole Waterloo/Cedar Falls area is surrounded by farmland. Most of it in production, some of it is in agricultural subsidy and not used.

Deer hunting starts 15 September, which is good for hunters finding things in

shelterbelts, forests and windbreaks. Pheasant season starts 20 October, good for hunters finding things in open fields.

I agree with the cornfield project, besides, that area someone would have been curious and then known what was being built. I also agree with deer and pheasant season starting the girls could be found by a hunter, sorry to say, if they are no longer alive and disposed of in a field.

Do you know what areas were searched for sure? Seems like LE stopped the searches because they know the girls are not in a field. ?? Sorry I know this was discussed a thousand times before, I just cannot remember...

 

[otto]

The only thing I can speculate is about the possibility of a bunker built into a crop field.

It seems unlikely to me because the bunker would have to be able to withstand 20 tons of weight going over it. Yes, I mean 40,000 pounds. That would require more than just 2x4s for shoring, I think.

It would definitely be a major project and I can't imagine any farmer not noticing someone carrying out such an extensive project in their field.

The whole Waterloo/Cedar Falls area is surrounded by farmland. Most of it in production, some of it is in agricultural subsidy and not used.

Deer hunting starts 15 September, which is good for hunters finding things in shelterbelts, forests and windbreaks. Pheasant season starts 20 October, good for hunters finding things in open fields.

I really appreciate your descriptions of the area. Have you seen The Lovely Bones? I first heard about th film because it was the phrase Morgan Harrington's mother used when she viewed her daughter's bones in a farmer's field, still wearing jewelry.

 

[nikb]

I think families and children differ.<snipped for space>

Not to mention LE staff and availability. When I first heard about this case and the quick police response I was super surprised. This is nothing against my local LE but around here unless it was on the news or an immediate 911 type emergency (which the report of the girls might've been?), where I am you're more likely to get "here's the website to fill out the report and we'll get back to you" than LE "swarming the lake."

This is a stretch but I would think that after a false report a few days earlier they might be a little slower to respond when they got a second report of the same child being later than expected getting home. I keep thinking there had to be more information that made LE worried or suspicious for them to act so quickly. I'm having a hard time separating likely LE responses from small towns to larger towns/cities/counties in my mind, though.

 

[JaimeInLA]

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/MeyersPaddleboats.jpg

This is OT, but I'm curious about that big house in the left circle. How much does a house like that cost in Evansdale, IA? In L.A., that is easily a $5 million house -- possibly up to $10 million depending on the part of town it's in. I thought maybe one of the locals might know (I probably don't even want to know the answer - it might make me cry.) kay:

 

[nikb]

This is OT, but I'm curious about that big house in the left circle. How much does a house like that cost in Evansdale, IA? In L.A., that is easily a $5 million house -- possibly up to $10 million depending on the part of town it's in. I thought maybe one of the locals might know (I probably don't even want to know the answer - it might make me cry.) kay:

I was thinking almost the same thing! You can tell who lives in California pretty easily by our responses to that house.

I also wondered is that house normally lived in, or is it more of a "getaway" vacation type place? I know one of the locals mentioned most of the houses by the lake are lived in full time, but it sounded like there might be a few that aren't?

 

[otto]

I agree Lyric is the target, common factor, here. I think she either met someone online, or someone at the beach where her mom said they had spent time this summer. I think there was a pre-arranged meeting and Elizabeth was along for security or to keep grandma from wondering why Lyric would be going out alone. I think Lyric being late the week before was just her being a kid a pushing her limits, or she just lost track of time. I don't think she met up with her secret pal that night because her cousin who was along that night would have told LE, (hopefully). Elizabeth took the purse with the cell phone along for "emergencies" maybe she thought just in case this secret meeting does not go as planned she would use it.

If Lyric met someone online LE knows about it. If she met someone while at the beach, maybe her mom wasn't paying enough attention to have any info on the person to give to LE.

I don't think it was a chance grab. I really think this person(s) was meeting her and I also believe the bikes were staged so LE would think the girls were still in the area or even drowned.

Another thought, what if someone Lyric met through her dad's company flirted with her enough to make her want to meet him or not be surprised to see him on the street? She would trust that person because her dad knows him, he must be okay...

It seems more and more like "not a chance grab". Everything is pointing towards a planned event ... thought through all the way to how to make an 8 and 10 year old girl disappear on a Friday afternoon ... with a staged scene head start?

 

[MNDad]

Not to mention LE staff and availability. When I first heard about this case and the quick police response I was super surprised. This is nothing against my local LE but around here unless it was on the news or an immediate 911 type emergency (which the report of the girls might've been?), where I am you're more likely to get "here's the website to fill out the report and we'll get back to you" than LE "swarming the lake."

This is a stretch but I would think that after a false report a few days earlier they might be a little slower to respond when they got a second report of the same child being later than expected getting home. I keep thinking there had to be more information that made LE worried or suspicious for them to act so quickly. I'm having a hard time separating likely LE responses from small towns to larger towns/cities/counties in my mind, though.

The previous incident was in Waterloo so it would have been a different LE agency, plus I am not even sure the call actually was made or was about to be made when she showed up.

 

[JaimeInLA]

I was thinking almost the same thing! You can tell who lives in California pretty easily by our responses to that house.

I also wondered is that house normally lived in, or is it more of a "getaway" vacation type place? I know one of the locals mentioned most of the houses by the lake are lived in full time, but it sounded like there might be a few that aren't?

LOL! I was wondering how it is even possible in Evansdale to make that much money! Given the (very limited) examples I've seen of the area's other citizens, and from listening to the scanner thread, Waterloo seems more like Watts than Beverly Hills! :what:

 

[MNDad]

This is OT, but I'm curious about that big house in the left circle. How much does a house like that cost in Evansdale, IA? In L.A., that is easily a $5 million house -- possibly up to $10 million depending on the part of town it's in. I thought maybe one of the locals might know (I probably don't even want to know the answer - it might make me cry.) kay:

2102 Taxes
100% Land Value 52,000
100% Dwelling Value 344,460

 

[otto]

Any old farms, old garages or buildings that could have a hidden room in the floor? When the girls disappeared that day I thought of a movie I saw on tv several years ago. I can't remember the name or the actors in it.

The plot is a young husband and wife are driving across country, and stop for gas at a lonely gas station place. The man is gassing up their suv, the wife tells him she is going in to use the washroom.

She never comes out. He goes in looking for her, and nobody admits she ever came in the door. At the end some guy had her stashed in a room under his big shop. Movies usually don't bother me much, but that one sure did. We and I do not gas up at lonely gas stations any more.

Watch The Vanishing, gas station scenario ... about the sociopath. It's an excellent film, especially the Dutch/Belgian version. The US version has the wrong ending. The director might be Paul Verhoven, but it might be the other guy ... not sure.

I love the first image ... it's the invisible insect ... preying mantis?

 

[otto]

I agree with the cornfield project, besides, that area someone would have been curious and then known what was being built. I also agree with deer and pheasant season starting the girls could be found by a hunter, sorry to say, if they are no longer alive and disposed of in a field.

Do you know what areas were searched for sure? Seems like LE stopped the searches because they know the girls are not in a field. ?? Sorry I know this was discussed a thousand times before, I just cannot remember...

Volunteers searched 12 square miles surrounding Meyers Lake.

 

[otto]

This is OT, but I'm curious about that big house in the left circle. How much does a house like that cost in Evansdale, IA? In L.A., that is easily a $5 million house -- possibly up to $10 million depending on the part of town it's in. I thought maybe one of the locals might know (I probably don't even want to know the answer - it might make me cry.) kay:

I too was wondering what was behind all those windows.

 

[HeinekenMan]

I don't know how many of you saw it earlier. I proposed a different use for the paddle boat. There has been speculation that it was used to lure these two girls. I believe it was used by the perp to move the two girls to the parking lot, where they were tossed into a vehicle, driven out of town and dumped or buried somewhere. You can get a nice view of those boats from across the lake at the location where the dogs tracked the girls to the shoreline.

This explains why their scents stopped at the water but they weren't found in the water, why a neighbor knew that his boat had been used and how someone got the girls out of that area without being seen.

 

[MNDad]

I too was wondering what was behind all those windows.

I would think a house like that might have external CCTV pointing in all directions.

 

[katydid23]

I don't know how many of you saw it earlier. I proposed a different use for the paddle boat. There has been speculation that it was used to lure these two girls. I believe it was used by the perp to move the two girls to the parking lot, where they were tossed into a vehicle, driven out of town and dumped or buried somewhere. You can get a nice view of those boats from across the lake at the location where the dogs tracked the girls to the shoreline.

This explains why their scents stopped at the water but they weren't found in the water, why a neighbor knew that his boat had been used and how someone got the girls out of that area without being seen.

Possible. But do you think the girls were going along for a boat ride and did not know anything was wrong at the time? Or were they already aware they were being kidnapped when they were on the boat? Because I think it is a bulky hard to steer type of boat. If the girls wanted to fight them it would be noticed, imo.

 

[hambirg]

I know just about zero about hunting. . .but are there areas where there are hunting camps or those watch tower things (I forget what they're called.. .lol)?

I had a friend growing up who's Dad hunted. He owned a cabin with some other hunting buddies that was actually on federal land. There were some really nice cabins up there (I think they belonged to the skiers) but there's was more just like a bunkhouse with a woodstove. Any places like that around?

 

[otto]

Not to mention LE staff and availability. When I first heard about this case and the quick police response I was super surprised. This is nothing against my local LE but around here unless it was on the news or an immediate 911 type emergency (which the report of the girls might've been?), where I am you're more likely to get "here's the website to fill out the report and we'll get back to you" than LE "swarming the lake."

This is a stretch but I would think that after a false report a few days earlier they might be a little slower to respond when they got a second report of the same child being later than expected getting home. I keep thinking there had to be more information that made LE worried or suspicious for them to act so quickly. I'm having a hard time separating likely LE responses from small towns to larger towns/cities/counties in my mind, though.

Perhaps both parents and police were slower to act. Didn't Elizabeth's mom contact police at 2 PM and police were at the park at 3 PM, the bikes were found at 3:40 and the official time of "looking" started at 3:58 PM. Perhaps knowing that Lyric was late 4 days earlier gave more urgency to "being late", or perhaps it meant that police waited an hour to get to Meyers Lake and the Evansdale Nature Trail.

 

[otto]

The previous incident was in Waterloo so it would have been a different LE agency, plus I am not even sure the call actually was made or was about to be made when she showed up.

Quite right ... the call was made, but it may not have been written up. I kind of assumed that it was and that the information was uploaded with access to both jurisdictions.