IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #2

[CHERIE.T]

also says kayaks out on the lake as the water level is dropping

LE must believe 'something' is in the lake. :waitasec: Kayaks can stay afloat in shallow water.

 

[lishac23]

Sometimes I wish LE would read our posts and comment on the confusion. "I know our citizen sleuthers have been racking their brains trying to help put two and two together so here is some of the things we'd like to clear up...." not so hard.

I've read through several articles, but I haven't found anything that would give insight to how populated the lake was that day (besides the aunt claiming she asked "some people"). If nothing else to provide some insight to a couple things:

Is it possible for them to have gone swimming and not have been seen?
Is it possible someone could have snatched both girls and had enough time to toss the cell phone and take them without being seen?
Were these "some people" in a large group at a certain spot or where they scattered around the lake in different spots?, etc....

 

[CHERIE.T]

Our knowledge of these case doesn't change stats. It remains the case that a child has more of a chance to be hit by lightning than taken by a stranger. It remains a fact that out of 258,000 missing kid cases per year, only 115 of those are stranger abductions: http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/pu...dren-spotlight

Quote taken from gitana1's excellent post.

Unbelievable. :0

 

[Wishbone]

FYI, tweeted by Ron Steele, anchor for kwwl news:
To correct an error being reported on Meyers Lake search, the lake is 26 acres, not 5 acres

Let me add to the confusion. I either read or heard it but after they drain the lake there will still be an area of about 5 acres that is underwater and they will have to figure out how they want to search that mess.

 

[Pensfan]

Did I read somewhere that the dogs smelled the parents to try and get a scent of the girls to use to try and track the girls?

Hope that makes sense.

One of the moms said that the dogs were intentionally lead past them (the parents). I didn't understand this. Was this after the dogs were allowed to smell some of the children's items? Were the dogs supposed to rule out the parents' smell in case the parents had been near the lake?

 

[nursebeeme]

LE must believe 'something' is in the lake. :waitasec: Kayaks can stay afloat in shallow water.

I am not sure they believe something is in the water but I do personally imhoo believe they are searching the entire to thing to make sure that the dragging and sonar did not pick up something of interest

:moo:

they need to clear the lake to be able to move on with certainty since they currently seem to have (according to what they have said to the public) nothing and are at a standstill.

I surely hope something of evidentiary evidence is able to be gathered there to lead them in the right direction.

 

[BelieveinUFO]

The only thing that is troubling is has the girls been this far from home (more than 10 blocks) lot of times?

I wouldn't even be comfortable if my kids go more than 2 blocks away even if my kids were 13 years old (though i don't have kids).

What were the rules established for them?

 

[nursebeeme]

One of the moms said that the dogs were intentionally lead past them (the parents). I didn't understand this. Was this after the dogs were allowed to smell some of the children's items? Were the dogs supposed to rule out the parents smell in case the parents had been near the lake?

iirc the article said the dogs sniffed shoes of the the girls and then the family members.

I was personally wondering if these are scent discrimination dogs (but usually they just take swabs of family members)

not to mention one video I watched the other day said family members had worn out the pavement around the lake (meaning their scent would be there).. maybe that is why they had them there if they didn't take swabs and are scent-d dogs

 

[CoachSue]

"Elizabeth Collins, 8, and her cousin, Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, were last seen Friday afternoon leaving their grandmother's house. Their bicycles and Elizabeth's purse were found later that day near a bike trail at the edge of Meyers Lake in the northeast Iowa city of Evansdale.

Black Hawk County Chief Deputy Rick Abben said the draining of the nearly 5-acre lake began Monday and could take up to three days. Officials believe it will go faster due to the low level of the lake and the Cedar River into which it drains."

http://www.rrstar.com/news/x736424587/Iowa-lake-drained-in-search-for-young-cousins

Yes - I got the impression that was the quote that Ron Steele was trying to correct...

 

[palaminodee]

The only thing that is troubling is has the girls been this far from home (more than 10 blocks) lot of times?

I wouldn't even be comfortable if my kids go more than 2 blocks away even if my kids were 13 years old (though i don't have kids).

What were the rules established for them?

The mom's said there were not permitted that far so who knows how they wound up there? On their own exploration or to meet some one, lured or taken??

 

[otto]

Police reported yesterday or the day before that they were draining the lake to rule out all possibilities that the girls were in the water ... not because they believe they are in the lake. Ruling out the possibility that the grils are in the lake allows them to then focus on other possibilities.

 

[LucyOso]

LE must believe 'something' is in the lake. :waitasec: Kayaks can stay afloat in shallow water.

I think what nurseb meant is they have put kayaks on the lake...not taking them out of the water. Put them out on the lake...

Originally Posted by nursebeeme
also says kayaks out on the lake as the water level is dropping

 

[GrainneDhu]

BBM. Totally makes sense. I was thinking yesterday that it could be a midwestern thing. I love Garrison Keiler! Love a Prairie Home Companion.

A great book that really underscores the culture of the region (well, perhaps more west like Minnesota and the Dakotas) is Giants in the Earth which describes a Norwegian family's immigration to the plains.

This cultural affect is very jarring to me. Totally different from my culture (we're talkin' third-world style wailing at funerals, etc). But, my dad was always very clam in an emergency and I have been at times as well. Also, when my dad was dying I was very upbeat, as someone else described. I didn't want to make him upset, so I was matter of fact and kept things calm and positive. Then I went home and wailed into my pillow.

SBM

Even at funerals, Iowans have a sort of unspoken agreement as to how much and what sort of crying is appropriate.

If speaking at the funeral, tearing up and one or two catches of the voice is acceptable.

If the departed was not in the immediate family, funeral attendees are okay to tear up or let out an occasional very quiet sob.

If the departed was in the immediate family, some quiet sobbing is okay once the service really gets going. Sobbing before the service starts is marginal. Loud sobbing is not done.

One or two loud honks as an older man blows his nose during the service is okay. Quick rule of thumb: if trimming the nose hair is part of daily grooming, then loud honks are okay.

The unspoken rules are a little looser at the graveside service, which is held outside. Slightly louder sobbing is okay but not so loud that it drowns out the voice of the officiant.

It isn't that Iowans don't love deeply and passionately; I know we do. Being restrained in public is part of the whole "don't make anyone else uncomfortable in public" thing. Oh and the other Iowa thing, which is that only one person at a time can have an emotional crisis within a given group.

And yeah, I'm laughing as I typed out the unspoken rules for funerals because in a certain way, they are funny.

The emotional crisis thing in particular. I would have to be dead a week or more before I would ever say anything but "fine, and you?" to the question "how are you?" One of my best friends is also from the midwest and there is this whole dance we have to go through before either of us can admit that we might actually have a problem.

This is the same guy who, on hearing I was in ICU, hopped into his truck and drove across half the country to be with me. He walks in, I've got multiple IVs and other tubes in me, he asks how I am and I manage to croak out "fine, and you?"

And that seemed perfectly normal to us.

My husband, California born and raised, finds such things completely baffling. He sees it but even after 18 years together, finds it difficult to believe.

 

[otto]

Yes - I got the impression that was the quote that Ron Steele was trying to correct...

Thanks. I think you're right. It's been reported as 5 acres since at least yesterday, but I just searched it and came up with this:

Lake Characteristics
Surface area: 26 acres
Maximum Depth: 19 feet
Impounded: Unknown
Normal Clarity: Unknown

Fishing Cover/Structure
Unknown

Types of Fish
Largemouth Bass, Bluegill, Channel Catfish, Crappie
Check weather conditions and forecast

 

[CHERIE.T]

I am not sure they believe something is in the water but I do personally imhoo believe they are searching the entire to thing to make sure that the dragging and sonar did not pick up something of interest

:moo:

they need to clear the lake to be able to move on with certainty since they currently seem to have (according to what they have said to the public) nothing and are at a standstill.

I surely hope something of evidentiary evidence is able to be gathered there to lead them in the right direction.

:seeya: Exactly! I'm hoping and praying that some type of evidence is found in the lake...(and obviously not the children.)

 

[CHERIE.T]

I think what nurseb meant is they have put kayaks on the lake...not taking them out of the water. Put them out on the lake...

I didn't mean to cause confusion. Sorry, I also meant placing kayaks on lower water is a good way to search.

 

[~n/t~]

After looking at photos of that particular lake, I have changed my opinion. There is no way the girls would willingly go in that murky, disgusting water. If they're in there, someone put them there.

I really appreciate LE's efforts but I'm also hoping they're not putting all their resources in one location. If these girls are NOT in the water, the perp is way ahead in his/her plan........if not already. :sigh:

 

[nursebeeme]

Sorry but this makes no sense to me. Sniff the shoes and then sniff the family members? I have used my dogs on shoes and then switched to underwear but would never in the world let them sniff anyone else or anything else. The protocol is you put the dog in sit, have the harness on, bring out the scent item, let them sniff, and immediately the dogs are told to search or find or track. It simply would not work to lead the dogs around a group of people letting them sniff their hearts out and then these same dogs are supposed to follow a unique trail?

this came from the family member.. I agree it doesn't make sense.. And if they are scent discrimination dogs they would use swabs iirc (that is what they used int he isabel celis case)

 

[LucyOso]

Thanks. I think you're right. It's been reported as 5 acres since at least yesterday, but I just searched it and came up with this:

Lake Characteristics
Surface area: 26 acres
Maximum Depth: 19 feet
Impounded: Unknown
Normal Clarity: Unknown

Fishing Cover/Structure
Unknown

Types of Fish
Largemouth Bass, Bluegill, Channel Catfish, Crappie
Check weather conditions and forecast

That is a huge area. Not to mention marshy areas and such.Uneven shore lines, underwater vegetation, hanging roots, grasses, etc, mud, debris...and because of the drought everything will have more viscosity and less visibility.

 

[palaminodee]

If the girls were taken, there also could have been evidence thrown in the lake...they probably want to check that too!