IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25

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I, too, believe that LE has no clue. I think right now, they are grasping at RSO straws. Hoping to get lucky checking and re-checking them. What little we know is so confusing. I am like Otto and have a very hard time with the girls going to the lake on their own. I understand being kids and losing track of time. But to travel so far when they knew they had to be home in minutes? Something about that gnaws at me. To suddenly ride to the lake -against the rules. To ride to the lake with no time to spare. And to be unfortunate enough to be abducted from the lake that they weren't supposed to be at in the first place...I just have a gut feeling that isn't how it went down.

I really haven't ruled out anyone as a suspect or anyone's theory because, frankly, we know next to nothing. And while I think it is definitely possible to snatch two unsuspecting girls, my gut is telling me that there was a level of familiarity between the girls and the perp(s). I could definitely be wrong here, but that is where I am right now.
 
One of my issues is the purse. How could any perp, if known to the girls, get Elizabeth to leave her purse behind, if, say he/she offered them a ride or a little trip? I could see leaving the bikes behind, but not the purse. If a little girl carries one in the first place, she won't want to leave it. That is what makes me lean towards a violent abduction.
 
rachaellouise said:
okay websleuthers, what do you guys think?

do you think this case will be solved/they will have a perp soon? or do you think it'll go cold.

IMO I think it may go cold. They don't seem to be any closer to finding someone than they were before these two angels bodies were discovered. hope I'm wrong!
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Well here goes MOO on LE at this given time...:furious:

I don't think they are any closer to an arrest than they were the day they went missing.

This is the first case I've ever followed on WebSleuths - simply because it's so close to home for me and I've learned so much already!

I will say though...that when they found the bikes and no girls a day or so later I had a horrible feeling this wouldn't be solved. I had said as much way back...local LE simply isn't prepared for things like this. "It just doesn't happen around here" is what we hear all too often in our small Iowa towns.

I have watched this unfold and sadly my confidence in LE is about zilch at this point. I followed the Evelyn Miller case via media only and that investigation infuriated me too. They knew all along who killed her and said as much but didn't make an arrest until her killer slipped up while running his mouth. Strike 2 in my book.

LE counts on people talking entirely too much. Maybe I watch too much CSI and expect more from our LE than is truly capable of accomplishing but I don't WANT to count on idiots running their mouths to "seal a deal" I want LE to do what they are paid to do...keep my community safe from people who abduct and kill children in broad daylight. And right now, I don't feel my kids are safe.:moo:
 
Maybe it's just bad TV influencing me, but I think it was one perv that took both girls. I think he used a knife for the abduction rather than a gun...a knife would enable him to draw a bit of blood to convince the second girl to comply.

He may have used the knife to kill one or both. Otherwise, as Otto said above, I suspect COD was strangulation.

I don't think LE is close to finding this guy...I don't think he's an RSO (although he should be!). Sadly, I'm afraid he will do it again before they finally catch him.

If they did get DNA and there's no direct match, I hope they are doing familial searches or whatever they're called.

All this is MOO.
 
cluciano63 said:
One of my issues is the purse. How could any perp, if known to the girls, get Elizabeth to leave her purse behind, if, say he/she offered them a ride or a little trip? I could see leaving the bikes behind, but not the purse. If a little girl carries one in the first place, she won't want to leave it. That is what makes me lean towards a violent abduction.
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We don't know that the perp(s) DID get Lizzie to willingly leave her purse. The purse could have been dumped at the lake with the bikes after the snatching took place.
 
dotr said:
Wow, this leaves a wide open net of potential suspects..

"“We haven't aimed in on any one specific person or gender or anything like that,” said Abben.

Abben said because of a lack of evidence, they can't even come up with a profile of the killer"
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I hope than in the 11 days since that article was published, LE has been able to develop some leads.:please:
 
When I say level of familiarity, I don't mean that it is a family member. It could have been a member of Lizzie's church. A guy in his late teens/early 20's who had once worked for Lizzie's dad,or a neighbor...or even some guy who worked in a local store or business that the girls had been in like an ice cream shop or a convenience store. All that perp had to do was to make them feel safe enough to approach him and then BOOM. Gone. Taken in broad daylight never to be heard from again. To me, I see that scenario as a bit more likely than the girls deciding to go where they weren't allowed at a time that doesn't seem appropriate, only to, by chance, come across a perp lying in wait at a park. Iicr, there were parks(searched by the family) much closer to home. And given the girls' allotted time, those areas would have been much more convenient for the girls. Why ride across town with minutes to spare to go to a place the family said they weren't allowed to go?

Maybe I was just a nerd kid because I can't fathom doing what they did at 8 or 10. We stuck to our neighborhood. And if I map out a mile from my childhood home in all directions, I can promise you I didn't go a mile from my home when I wasn't allowed. And I especially wouldn't do it when I was due to be home in mere minutes. I wouldn't have had a bike! My mom would've made sure of that. By all accounts, these were good, normal kids. They knew the lake was leech-infested. IF they rode to that lake on their own, they were lured or chased there by someone. MOO, of course :)
 
cluciano63 said:
One of my issues is the purse. How could any perp, if known to the girls, get Elizabeth to leave her purse behind, if, say he/she offered them a ride or a little trip? I could see leaving the bikes behind, but not the purse. If a little girl carries one in the first place, she won't want to leave it. That is what makes me lean towards a violent abduction.
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As a kid, I remember watching shows where the kids "taken away" or "lost in woods", drop crumbs of bread or stones ect. as clues to their whereabouts... Maybe the girls left the purse with that in mind, a thought preferable to the one of some insensitive clod throwing it away. Unless the girls were taken bikes, purses and all and those items dumped later at M lake. (from a boat ?!)
 
dotr said:
Wow, this leaves a wide open net of potential suspects..

"“We haven't aimed in on any one specific person or gender or anything like that,” said Abben.

Abben said because of a lack of evidence, they can't even come up with a profile of the killer"
Click to expand...

Please note this was AFTER their bodies were found and taken to ME that these comments were made about lack of evidence.

No gender to me means no DNA...you'd know gender by DNA.
 
I don't believe LE has any news to share, which is why they haven't shared anything. Maybe I am in the minority, but I DO believe that IF there was some info, LE DOES, in fact, owe it to the community to make it public. Perhaps not every little detail, as going that far may jeopardize the case, but they owe the community something. You cannot keep your kids safe if you don't know what you are up against. That is why I don't believe LE is any closer to solving this. If they have come up with a profile, keeping it to themselves puts the community at risk.
 
Drew and Heather were asked for a list of anyone they even remotely considered as potential suspects; more than once. As to it being a former employee, friend, family member, etc. I'd virtually guarantee everyone who has had contact with the family has been looked into in one way or another. I'd believe that they did a search of my background as well; given I see Drew usually at least once a week and the texts/etc. we've exchanged. Ditto for many others in this area. As others have said I just hope there is some bit of evidence or a break in the case so we can feel that justice will prevail. Whomever the person/persons are who did this need to pay the price and they also need to be locked up so they can never do this again. IMO it's someone very familiar with the area or at least there was someone who was if more than one was involved. Thank God they found the bodies before the snow fell or there was any spring flooding. If either would've happened there would've been a chance they'd have never been found. As I've said before... every day I wake hoping this will be the day an arrest/arrests happen.
 
IOWAFRIEND said:
Drew and Heather were asked for a list of anyone they even remotely considered as potential suspects; more than once. As to it being a former employee, friend, family member, etc. I'd virtually guarantee everyone who has had contact with the family has been looked into in one way or another. I'd believe that they did a search of my background as well; given I see Drew usually at least once a week and the texts/etc. we've exchanged. Ditto for many others in this area. As others have said I just hope there is some bit of evidence or a break in the case so we can feel that justice will prevail. Whomever the person/persons are who did this need to pay the price and they also need to be locked up so they can never do this again. IMO it's someone very familiar with the area or at least there was someone who was if more than one was involved. Thank God they found the bodies before the snow fell or there was any spring flooding. If either would've happened there would've been a chance they'd have never been found. As I've said before... every day I wake hoping this will be the day an arrest/arrests happen.
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IOWAFRIEND, can you give us an update on Heather? Is she home, and if so, will she and Drew be attending Lyric's memorial today?
 
IOWAFRIEND said:
Drew and Heather were asked for a list of anyone they even remotely considered as potential suspects; more than once. As to it being a former employee, friend, family member, etc. I'd virtually guarantee everyone who has had contact with the family has been looked into in one way or another. I'd believe that they did a search of my background as well; given I see Drew usually at least once a week and the texts/etc. we've exchanged. Ditto for many others in this area. As others have said I just hope there is some bit of evidence or a break in the case so we can feel that justice will prevail. Whomever the person/persons are who did this need to pay the price and they also need to be locked up so they can never do this again. IMO it's someone very familiar with the area or at least there was someone who was if more than one was involved. Thank God they found the bodies before the snow fell or there was any spring flooding. If either would've happened there would've been a chance they'd have never been found. As I've said before... every day I wake hoping this will be the day an arrest/arrests happen.
Click to expand...

I still have a problem ruling out absolutely everyone who may have ties to any family member. IF there is no DNA or evidence linking someone to the crime, they can't call anyone a suspect. DNA, especially, would change the whole ball game. There would be something to go on. Something to match up with someone. There could be some questionable characters that have some small link to the family, but with nothing to go on, they would go on undetected. Gary Ridgeway was in the police files of the Green River killings many many years before they found out he was, in fact, the killer. He was questioned and released.
 
She's home doing well. I just saw Drew yesterday at a lunchtime hockey game we both played in. I don't usually ask him things related to Elizabeth; but if he wants to talk about it then that's fine and we'll talk about things. When he's ready or wanting to discuss things he always does. I'm not sure if they're going but I'd believe they would if for nothing else out of their love for Lyric who spent so much time with them.
 
Ms Pragmatic said:
I don't believe LE has any news to share, which is why they haven't shared anything. Maybe I am in the minority, but I DO believe that IF there was some info, LE DOES, in fact, owe it to the community to make it public. Perhaps not every little detail, as going that far may jeopardize the case, but they owe the community something. You cannot keep your kids safe if you don't know what you are up against. That is why I don't believe LE is any closer to solving this. If they have come up with a profile, keeping it to themselves puts the community at risk.
Click to expand...

BBM

I can understand the feelings of parents in the community, I know I would be very worried about keeping my kids safe. But realistically, what info could LE release to the public that wouldn't jeopardize their investigation?

If LE says, we believe a sex offender abducted and killed the girls, how would that help? I would assume most parents already try to keep their kids away from known sex offenders.

If LE says they feel this was a random abduction, how would that help keep kids safer? How would that do anything other than create panic?

IMO, what LE owes the community is an arrest and conviction in this case. That has to be LE's primary objective, not feeding bits and pieces of info to the public in an attempt to appease their "need to know".
 
From what I hear out of Drew the FBI, DCI, and local police are still doing all they can to pursue any lead they get. They want this solved as badly as anyone especially given the victims were so young and innocent. If they have anything to go on and that tidbit could be jeopardized by releasing it then they need to keep it under wraps. And with the FBI involved I'd bet everything that is released to the media is worded exactly as desired and approved by them first.
 
IOWAFRIEND said:
She's home doing well. I just saw Drew yesterday at a lunchtime hockey game we both played in. I don't usually ask him things related to Elizabeth; but if he wants to talk about it then that's fine and we'll talk about things. When he's ready or wanting to discuss things he always does. I'm not sure if they're going but I'd believe they would if for nothing else out of their love for Lyric who spent so much time with them.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the update, I'm certainly happy to hear she is home and doing well.

I hope Heather and Drew realize just how many of us "strangers" think about and pray for them every day.
 
With all due respect, info keeps the case on the forefront of everyone's minds. It may be at the forefront now because it is so fresh. But, over the course of time, people get complacent. Hearing from LE also gives a small bit of peace of mind. There have been many, many cases where info has been given out. I would be hard-pressed to name five cases where LE hasn't given tidbits of info here and there. The community should not know all that the police know, but info is generally given out if LE has any to give. In this case, I don't think there is any to give out. That is why I feel as though there have been no new updates. Nothing to tell.
 
Suppose LE suspected a serial killer was active in my community, would I want to know? Of course I would. Would I want a profile? You bet I would! I would want to know if the police are looking for a certain type of vehicle. I wouldn't expect LE to name someone a suspect unless an arrest was imminent. They simply won't do that. Nor should they. But as a parent, I would want answers. Being that they aren't offering ANY info leads me to believe they have none.
 
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