IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25

[Squeeze]

I'm not ready to discard the other times provided by investigators.

Me neither, but would take them with a grain of salt.

 

[Squeeze]

I dont know if anyone posted this or not, it may have been and some how i missed it. If so my appologies for double posting.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...ns-deaths-will-be-kept-confidential?Frontpage

Authorities will keep secret for an undetermined amount of time the cause of death of two northeast Iowa cousins whose bodies were found in a park in December, officials said Wednesday.

In addition, authorities do not have immediate plans to release other information related to the cousins’ deaths.


Details of when and how the cousins were killed will remain confidential as the investigation into their deaths continues, Evansdale Police Chief Kent Smock said Wednesday.

“Part of that is, the only people that are going to know this information are the people who are responsible,” Smock said. “At least until somebody is arrested and we’re comfortable with that, that’s information we’ll keep confidential.”

Family members have said they were told by law enforcement officials that the girls most likely were killed within a few days of their disappearance, but authorities have declined to say whether that is the case.

The girls’ bodies have not yet been released to their families, officials said.

Collins’ parents have said they do not want to know how their daughter died. Other family members said they do want that information.

The cause and manner of death are considered public information under Iowa’s open-records law, “unless disclosure would jeopardize an investigation or pose a clear and present danger to the public safety or the safety of an individual.”

Artzy

Mmmm.... it's almost as if they have been monitoring our conversation....

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

Depends on if he was there when the abduction happened, I think.

To a lot of young kids "a long time" means "long enough to be bored." So a day at the carnival is never a long time but 5 minutes at church is a long time.

To a young kid fishing, a long time may mean "I was here for 10 minutes, haven't gotten a bite, so I've doing this a long time."

Plus, depending on where that boy was, he may not have been able to see that enclosed 400 foot length of trail.

Very true. When I was young, an hour playing with friends was a short time, but an hour at church was an eternity. The term "long time" is very vague. But I imagine if there was a little guy there fishing, he has been thoroughly questioned at this point.

 

[Sere-nity]

My head IS spinning. I stayed up well into this morning watching YouTube videos and following links back to those early articles. I also ended up at a website doing statement analyses of those interviewed early on. Misty and Gma mostly. I had forgotten so much of this stuff. It is very frustrating. I think this is why I am keeping my timeline simple. One thing is for certain in all of this. Gma was the glue that held this family together. She was very heavily relied upon. It seems that she was equally close with all three of her daughters that are involved with this case. Tammy, Misty and Heather.

Could somebody have wanted to break the bond? Sort of like a
revenge scenario meets wrong place wrong time (for the girls)?

How about this question... Gma wanted to leave by 1:30 but wanted the girls back by 12:30. Was there a reason that she wanted them back by 12:30. Is it possible that she could have been informed that someone nefarious was going to be in town after that time?

Just trying to think outside the box.

 

[tlcya]

http://www.press-citizen.com/articl...ansdale-cousins-deaths-will-kept-confidential

Dennis Klein, a deputy state medical examiner, said most of the work on the bodies has been completed but there are still some tests being conducted.

It is not uncommon for such examinations to take several weeks, especially if a body has decomposed, said William Moulder, retired Des Moines police chief and a law enforcement consultant.

“It’s frustrating. It’s disappointing, but it’s necessary for the examination to be thorough and complete, and the resources to do that are often quite limited,” Moulder said

 

[tlcya]

http://www.press-citizen.com/articl...ansdale-cousins-deaths-will-kept-confidential

Waiting for those results can sometimes be detrimental to an investigation, as was the case in a Polk County murder about 25 years ago, Moulder said. Authorities had a suspect in custody but had to wait for confirmation that DNA evidence found on the victim’s body was that of the killer.

Smock said Wednesday that authorities were continuing to follow leads in the case as they wait for autopsy results.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

To me, this case screams "luring". I have a hard time understanding why these girls would ride to the lake. Absolutely NO family member thought it was something the girls do often. We know the girls weren't taken there to swim because it was leech-infested. We know it was nearly a mile from where they were supposed to be. Both Heather and Gma stated that the girls stayed close to home. They were on a time limit. Why THAT day? Why the lake? Leaves me with two thoughts: they were lured there. Or they were taken closer to home and the bikes were staged.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

http://www.press-citizen.com/articl...ansdale-cousins-deaths-will-kept-confidential

Waiting for those results can sometimes be detrimental to an investigation, as was the case in a Polk County murder about 25 years ago, Moulder said. Authorities had a suspect in custody but had to wait for confirmation that DNA evidence found on the victim’s body was that of the killer.

Smock said Wednesday that authorities were continuing to follow leads in the case as they wait for autopsy results.

Please let there be DNA. Since the beginning, my only hope was that they would come home safe. Because we know that wont happen now, dear God, give them justice.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I think grocery stores are designed to make spouses seem to disappear into thin air. I lose mine all the time when we go grocery shopping.

On purpose? :wink:

 

[GrainneDhu]

For police to "swarm the place" then my guess is that the firefighter who found the bikes called police to let them know what he'd found? They seemed to have known immediately that the bikes they found were the girls (and the purse). I'm still confused where the police were from 2 - 3 until they all swarmed the lake...maybe they WERE looking in the vicinity of the home while others went to the lake?

Good point!

I think the fact that the bicycles were not found for an hour (more or less) after the police had been notified indicates that searchers were spread out all over town. If LE had instantly concentrated on Meyer's Lake, the bicycles would have been found within 10 minutes.

 

[tlcya]

To me, this case screams "luring". I have a hard time understanding why these girls would ride to the lake. Absolutely NO family member thought it was something the girls do often. We know the girls weren't taken there to swim because it was leech-infested. We know it was nearly a mile from where they were supposed to be. Both Heather and Gma stated that the girls stayed close to home. They were on a time limit. Why THAT day? Why the lake? Leaves me with two thoughts: they were lured there. Or they were taken closer to home and the bikes were staged.

I agree 100%

This is the exact thing that I am hung up on as well. Luring or staging. I just can't get past it. I cannot believe the girls simply decided to ride so far outside their boundaries on that day. That day.

Lured or staged. I am stuck with those two options.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Just for my clarification, didn't Ollipop say back in a previous thread during the summer that Meyers Lake was enlarged due to borrowing for 380/20, but was there beforehand as a smaller natural lake?

Yes, there was a pond there. Really, even though Meyer's Lake is called a lake, I've seen bigger ponds.

 

[Marilynilpa]

To my knowledge, they take the big cases to make names for themselves. Many of our local criminal defense lawyers started out in the DA's office.

I've found that to be true in Dallas, too.

 

[Sere-nity]

On purpose? :wink:

Sometimes I think so! I'm talking, and all of a sudden poof I'm talking to nobody!

 

[GrainneDhu]

I have relatives who live on Elmer, and they built their house in the early 80s. The lake was there then. Also, 380 opened about the time I graduated from hs in '83. So if it was manmade, then it would be about 1979/80 or so.

The part of I-380 that goes between Iowa City and Cedar Rapids was built in 1975 and then they started building it north of Cedar Rapids to Waterloo/Cedar Falls after that. I think I-380 went almost all the way to Waterloo by winter of 1978 but I'm not sure.

I know that when Jethro Tull appeared at the Uni-Dome, I took I-380 almost all the way there with a carload of friends. We got to meet Ian Anderson backstage and then we stayed up all night in someone's dorm room arguing feminist theory. And we thought we were all so grown up! LOL!

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

And so it was at 11:30, they asked me if they could go for a short bike ride, and I said yes. And they`ve done this millions of times. And they`ve never, never went that far. I could go outside and yell their names, and they would eventually hear me.-from Nancy Grace transcript. Wylma Cook quoted.

That statement is eating at me for several reasons. The girls asked to go for a short bike ride at 11:30. They knew they had to be back, which is why they say "short" bike ride. We know from 11:30 until they were caught on CCTV that they remained close to home. WHY did they remain close to home and take off shortly before they were due back? Makes no sense to me.

 

[alliemay]

One of my issues is the purse. How could any perp, if known to the girls, get Elizabeth to leave her purse behind, if, say he/she offered them a ride or a little trip? I could see leaving the bikes behind, but not the purse. If a little girl carries one in the first place, she won't want to leave it. That is what makes me lean towards a violent abduction.

Maybe the girls realized they couldn't trust this person and one of them mentioned Elizabeth's cell phone (even thought the phone was a non-working cell phone and only used for games, the perp would not have known this). He panicked and grabbed the purse and threw it over the fence, I think the bikes were in the fenced in area. Hopefully they have checked for fingerprints on the purse handle.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Sorry if this is a repeat.

Details of Cousins' Death Causes Won't Be Released Soon

Evansdale Police Chief Kent Smock told The Des Moines Register (http://dmreg.co/VxjOJB) on Wednesday that the causes and other details about the deaths of Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins will be kept confidential in order to protect the investigation.

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Details-in-Cousins-Death-Not-Expected-Soon-185541972.html

 

[gar]

I just can't stomach the thought of someone keeping them alive and then killing them days later but it certainly is a possibility that this person had time to find a place to dispose of their bodies.

It makes me sick too. The only silver lining to the fact that the girls may have been alive for a few days is maybe there's more evidence somewhere. In the perp's car, home, whatever. When they find him/her/them, he/she/they are screwed.

Also, I'm glad to hear (or at least assume from how the article was worded) they were able to determine a cause of death.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

And so it was at 11:30, they asked me if they could go for a short bike ride, and I said yes. And they`ve done this millions of times. And they`ve never, never went that far. I could go outside and yell their names, and they would eventually hear me.-from Nancy Grace transcript. Wylma Cook quoted.

That statement is eating at me for several reasons. The girls asked to go for a short bike ride at 11:30. They knew they had to be back, which is why they say "short" bike ride. We know from 11:30 until they were caught on CCTV that they remained close to home. WHY did they remain close to home and take off shortly before they were due back? Makes no sense to me.

Jumping off my post to expand further... Gma was worried enough to get in her car and go look for them at 12:30. At that point, she wasn't thinking "oh, just wait until those two girls get back here. I'm going to let them have it for not coming when they are called". No, she got into her car and went to look. That tells me in Gma's experience, this was not a common occurrence. CCTV has them close to home at 12:11, or 12:19 if you account for the time stamp inaccuracies. Gma was out looking for them within 10-15 minutes of them being captured on that video. Were they abducted already? Or were they just arriving at the lake when Gma got in her car? I just can't make myself believe that these girls broke the rules that late in the game on their own. What sent them there? Or were they taken within moments of being caught on that camera? Frustrating!