IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #35

[Wondergirl]

LE should narrow the search to a man within 50 km's who has not renewed his white suv sticker/plates, owns a registered ATV and has a fishing or hunting license. Assumptions made here.

Can a local please verify that ATV's are registered at the DMV and you must renew your fishing/hunting license every year, and they are monitored such that anyone fishing would have, or risk being fined, etc.

 

[Wondergirl]

Did anyone here do a google streetview walkabout, looking for the older white suv?

ETA - The streetview photos on the maps for the area are dated 2009 for the area of recovery. For the area of abduction, they are actually August 2012. Maybe the perp didn't get rid of the SUV yet. This is something we could actually do that may assist.

Hollye's Map

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msi...&msa=0&iwloc=0004c4d406effc9c7306f&dg=feature

 

[Squeeze]

Did anyone here do a google streetview walkabout, looking for the older white suv?

ETA - The streetview photos on the maps for the area are dated 2009 for the area of recovery. For the area of abduction, they are actually August 2012. Maybe the perp didn't get rid of the SUV yet. This is something we could actually do that may assist.

Hollye's Map

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msi...&msa=0&iwloc=0004c4d406effc9c7306f&dg=feature

Actually yes, several of us did, and there are more white SUVs than you'd think!

 

[Squeeze]

LE should narrow the search to a man within 50 km's who has not renewed his white suv sticker/plates, owns a registered ATV and has a fishing or hunting license. Assumptions made here.

Can a local please verify that ATV's are registered at the DMV and you must renew your fishing/hunting license every year, and they are monitored such that anyone fishing would have, or risk being fined, etc.

We have a Polaris 4 wheeler that is not registered, never has been (it's 14 years old). I see lots of them around that are not registered. Farmers are supposed to use them for "checking crops", property, etc., which is what ours is used for. I'll bet there are many similar vehicles in that area.

Oh and another interesting tidbit... My husband and I were talking to someone recently who has a cabin on the Wapsi near 7 bridges. His cabin has no electricity. What a great hideout.... secluded, I'm guessing. I didn't know there were any cabins there. Will have to investigate that.

 

[Wondergirl]

Actually yes, several of us did, and there are more white SUVs than you'd think!

Did you tag a map with the results?

What was the geographical radius for the grid?

Did you search both Evansdale and the surrounding area of where they were recovered?

What were the criteria you used for the white suv, and what were you looking for specifically?

I found a half buried, white, older suv in the vicinity of the abduction. The google map photo is from August 2012, 1 month after abduction. I just spent 1.5 hrs trying to sleuth 1 name only from the 6 families that live in the fairly run-down building, which looks like an old business converted to apartments. This task would be time consuming, but, is worth a shot, but it would be better with helping hands and eyes.

 

[Wondergirl]

info on white suv

Authorities on Monday morning said they have three separate witnesses who say they saw a white, older-model, full-size SUV-type vehicle -- similar to a Chevy Suburban or a Ford Bronco -- parked on Arbutus Avenue on July 13.

Investigators want to speak with the person or persons in the vehicle or anyone who has frequented the Meyers Lake area in a similar vehicle.

The person or persons in the vehicle should not be considered a suspect or person of interest at this time, but may have information about the case, officials say.

Arbutus Avenue meets up with the bike trail near Meyers Lake, where Lyric and Elizabeth's bikes were found.

Two of the witnesses say they saw the white SUV parked between these two bike trail signs.

The other witness told police they saw the vehicle parked near the woods on the east side of the lake -- only a few hundred feet from where the bikes were found.

All of three of these individuals say they saw this SUV between the times of 11:30 a.m. and 12:30 p.m. on July 13, 2012.

Authorities hope this may jog people's memory and they may get more information with this tip now out in the public.

http://www.kwwl.com/story/22671327/2013/06/24/evansdale

 

[nikb]

I'm not even in their area (or even state) but I started looking for white SUVs as I'm driving around and there are SO many of them. It worries me because will it ever be found? Especially if it's potentially not even registered?

 

[threecrazykids]

LE should narrow the search to a man within 50 km's who has not renewed his white suv sticker/plates, owns a registered ATV and has a fishing or hunting license. Assumptions made here.

Can a local please verify that ATV's are registered at the DMV and you must renew your fishing/hunting license every year, and they are monitored such that anyone fishing would have, or risk being fined, etc.

The problem here in Iowa is that with all of the farms in the area it's not uncommon to have unregistered ATV's for checking crops (as Squeeze mentioned).

I'm not saying this is the ONLY case, but I've found that ATV's are typically registered (within my circle) when they are ridden on public quad trails that are more likely to be monitored by DNR (or any type of LE). The majority of quads (I'd bet) aren't registered every year - especially if used just to crop check.

I wonder if there were any summer farm hands who lived in E'dale or that immediate area, but helped on a farm closer to Seven Bridges...or even further north where they would pass the park regularly.

When it comes to hunting and fishing, yes, you do have to have a license to LEGALLY hunt/fish any public ground...but then again, is this person likely to be a law abiding citizen?
I have a feeling that DNR didn't make very many stops at Seven Bridges to even check licenses. If the partying and illegal drug use stories of the park were true then I have to assume it's not closely monitored.

I think it's a great idea for them to try to narrow down the search by the parameters you've described above...but the problem is, this is Iowa and those parameters may bring a much larger query than any of us would think.

 

[Wondergirl]

The problem here in Iowa is that with all of the farms in the area it's not uncommon to have unregistered ATV's for checking crops (as Squeeze mentioned).

I'm not saying this is the ONLY case, but I've found that ATV's are typically registered (within my circle) when they are ridden on public quad trails that are more likely to be monitored by DNR (or any type of LE). The majority of quads (I'd bet) aren't registered every year - especially if used just to crop check.

I wonder if there were any summer farm hands who lived in E'dale or that immediate area, but helped on a farm closer to Seven Bridges...or even further north where they would pass the park regularly.

When it comes to hunting and fishing, yes, you do have to have a license to LEGALLY hunt/fish any public ground...but then again, is this person likely to be a law abiding citizen?
I have a feeling that DNR didn't make very many stops at Seven Bridges to even check licenses. If the partying and illegal drug use stories of the park were true then I have to assume it's not closely monitored.

I think it's a great idea for them to try to narrow down the search by the parameters you've described above...but the problem is, this is Iowa and those parameters may bring a much larger query than any of us would think.

Thank-you, I totally get that.

If a quad was used to transport the (deceased ) girls to the recovery location, it is safe to say that their bodies would be enclosed in a storage box or travel case of some sort, on the back of the bike.

I spent some time last night looking at Cranky's pics, bless her heart for all her hard and very useful work on these cases.

The pictures do alot more to explain, although first hand descriptions are awesome.

After seeing the well worn turnabout road that looks like it's within walking distance to the recovery location, I have changed my mind about the ATV. I think the perp could very well have driven to the recovery location.

Jmo

 

[threecrazykids]

Thank-you, I totally get that.

If a quad was used to transport the (deceased ) girls to the recovery location, it is safe to say that their bodies would be enclosed in a storage box or travel case of some sort, on the back of the bike.

I spent some time last night looking at Cranky's pics, bless her heart for all her hard and very useful work on these cases.

The pictures do alot more to explain, although first hand descriptions are awesome.

After seeing the well worn turnabout road that looks like it's within walking distance to the recovery location, I have changed my mind about the ATV. I think the perp could very well have driven to the recovery location.

Jmo

I thought that was possible too...until I went and took those videos. I was SURE that person drove there. But after walking it and seeing the actual terrain I just don't think it's possible. I think it's deceiving how open it appears on pictures vs. the reality of what it's like in the dead of summer. Remember - when their bodies were found, it was December. Huge difference between July and December in terms of ground cover.

Plus - multiple trees and trails had been made in an attempt to search for evidence, etc. so I think that too may add to the appearance of being able to drive. If this person DID drive back there, for one there is no way they'd not be noticed unless the park was completely empty. And two, there is just no way they'd ever have a place to turn around without taking out a ton of trees...it's that dense.

ATV, maybe. But I'd actually be more inclined to think this person had to carry their bodies in - even an ATV would be hard to navigate through there.

 

[Wondergirl]

Info I didn't know

Riley said 7 Bridges had been a full-fledged park at one time but county officials ceased maintaining it several years ago.

“It’ not really a park anymore, more of a hunting access,” Riley said. “Usually pretty quiet.”

Other residents said it is popular for fishing, mushroom hunting and underage beer parties.

The park has been used to dispose of evidence in the past. In November 2007, Martaves Keys went to the park to get rid of the gun he used to kill Anissa Schroeder and Ronald Scullark in Waterloo and burn his bloody clothing. A search diver recovered the weapon from the Wapsipinicon River after a witness came forward.

Lancaster said the odds of finding missing persons’ remains — or evidence of other crimes — increase during the shotgun deer season, when more than 70,000 hunters comb through remote woods and fields.

More Iowans are afield during the two shotgun deer seasons (Dec. 1-5 and Dec. 8-16) than at any other time of the year, she said.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_394b71f6-3f2c-11e2-8ae9-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[Wondergirl]

Refresher - very perplexing about their condition.

Also, to regurgitate, really, how is it possible that LE knows that they were not killed at the recovery location? They must not have been strangled, poisoned etc., if LE knew that they were not killed there.

Was COD or TOD ever released?

A couple of things that we know. I`m told by police sources that they were able to make an eyeball identification, meaning looking at the bodies and knowing in their heads that it was these two girls, very, very quickly. I`m told is that it didn`t appear that the bodies had been out exposed to the elements for the four or five months since they went missing. That`s No. 1.

I`m also told that there was some articles of clothing belonging to these two girls found at that scene, as well

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1212/06/ijvm.01.html

 

[dotr]

I thought that was possible too...until I went and took those videos. I was SURE that person drove there. But after walking it and seeing the actual terrain I just don't think it's possible. I think it's deceiving how open it appears on pictures vs. the reality of what it's like in the dead of summer. Remember - when their bodies were found, it was December. Huge difference between July and December in terms of ground cover.

Plus - multiple trees and trails had been made in an attempt to search for evidence, etc. so I think that too may add to the appearance of being able to drive. If this person DID drive back there, for one there is no way they'd not be noticed unless the park was completely empty. And two, there is just no way they'd ever have a place to turn around without taking out a ton of trees...it's that dense.

ATV, maybe. But I'd actually be more inclined to think this person had to carry their bodies in - even an ATV would be hard to navigate through there.

Rbbm.

Hate to even suggest this, but do we know if the bodies were intact?
It seems these days there have been a number of murders where the victim has been made into smaller parts, in order to make transporting and disposing of the body easier for the perp....

 

[threecrazykids]

Rbbm.

Hate to even suggest this, but do we know if the bodies were intact?
It seems these days there have been a number of murders where the victim has been made into smaller parts, in order to make transporting and disposing of the body easier for the perp....

No, we don't. No COD or any pertinent information has been disclosed about the girls conditions when they were found. This is pretty common though...they narrow it down by "only something the killer would know".

 

[nikb]

<snipped for space>
Plus - multiple trees and trails had been made in an attempt to search for evidence, etc. so I think that too may add to the appearance of being able to drive. If this person DID drive back there, for one there is no way they'd not be noticed unless the park was completely empty. And two, there is just no way they'd ever have a place to turn around without taking out a ton of trees...it's that dense.

ATV, maybe. But I'd actually be more inclined to think this person had to carry their bodies in - even an ATV would be hard to navigate through there.

Thanks for the info. It makes me sick to ask this question but do you have any thoughts as to "carried in" versus "walked/chased in"?

 

[threecrazykids]

Thanks for the info. It makes me sick to ask this question but do you have any thoughts as to "carried in" versus "walked/chased in"?

It's my personal belief that the girls were already dead when they were placed there.
My original theories have evolved over time. In the beginning I was more open to the possibility that they may have been taken there alive - with someone they knew - and had no idea what was about to happen. That this person walked them in like nothing was wrong and then killed them once they got there. Maybe strangulation, or even gunshot. I haven't completely ruled out that option, but I think it's less likely than my alternative theories on how they got there.

I think that it would have been extremely risky to chance walking them in alive during the middle of the day - mid July. Any number of people could be in that park doing outdoor activities and way too many risk factors involved of something going wrong.

I really think that the park was nothing more than a dumping ground. I think they were already dead when they were placed there. I'm not certain they weren't held somewhere for an amount of time. I think that's a possibility. Not necessarily days before they were found...but heck, what do I know...maybe this person did keep them alive and only killed them days or even weeks before they were discovered.

I think the disposal of their bodies likely happened under the cover of night. The chances of being seen out there at night would be much less. You'd have much more of a chance to do it without being seen for hours during the night time than during the day if no one was camping or fishing in that portion of the park.

That's what makes me certain this person KNEW when to be there and where to place them. There are tons of places to dump a body - even in the remote areas of where the park is - along any of the roads. But they went deep into the park. If they went in the normal route they blatantly drove right down the main driveway and into that roundabout...that's pretty bold. I don't think they'd risk doing that with the girls alive. If someone was there they'd run smack into them on their way in and out.

This person knew when and where to go in the park to avoid detection...which is why I think they know this park very well.

 

[nikb]

Thanks for the reply threecrazykids. I think your logic makes sense. The only thing I've felt super strongly about from the very beginning is that this perp knew the area - at least the area where they were left, but likely the lake too. The rest just seems like such a mystery. The thing that makes me wonder about them walking/running is that they weren't found right together. It's always made me wonder if one of them took off running once they realized what was going on. Then again the perp didn't seem to try all that hard to hide them other than putting them in a remote area (i.e. they weren't buried as far as we know), so maybe they just weren't that worried about it.

 

[alliemay]

The one furthest in might have been the first one walked in, if that's the way they got there. Possibly by the time he walked back to get the other one he started getting anxious about being seen (headlights, noises, etc), so he didn't want to walk the extra distance to actually lay them together. Just some thoughts.

 

[threecrazykids]

The one furthest in might have been the first one walked in, if that's the way got there. Possibly by the time he walked back to get the other one he started getting anxious about being seen (headlights, noises, etc), so he didn't want to walk the extra distance to actually lay them together. Just some thoughts.

That's my guess as well. After being there, I've even surmised that this person maybe COULDN'T find the first body after it was taken in. It's that difficult to navigate during the day...at night it would be next to impossible.

I've not 100% ruled out that they were walked in...that too is possible given how close they were...yet still a measurable distance apart. That would certainly account for an attempted escape theory.

 

[bessie]

Please continue at thread #36


Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #36 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community