IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #40

[MistyWaters]

Good question!

Taking the path of least resistance, I’m thinking information which CR offered during the interview, as written on the affidavit adequately supports “willfully, deliberate and with premeditation”.

The event that provoked him - he stated he got mad when Mollie said she was going to call police.

What were his options?
1. Run back to his car and speed off as quickly as possible.
2. Let her make the phonecall and hang around until police arrive to face possible consequences.
3. Inflict multiple sharp force injuries causing her death.

He (allegedly) chose option 3. Making that choice was “willful, deliberate and premeditated”.

JMO

 

[Joe Friday]

WOW BUF, great post, and fantastic citation!

I knew that the literature on long post-mortum semen collection would be scanty, but a great synopsis couple of paragraphs! I am pleased to see that the literature supports viable forensic findings as far out as 36 days to 5-6 weeks. This would lend credence to any such findings in MT's case at 33 days, and shows that such collection is possible. Of note is that the far outlayer of 5-6 weeks was from a mummified corpse. DNA (and spermatoozoa) will best preserve in a cool and dry bacteria free environment. Unfortunately, CBR hit the jackpot, foriensicly speaking, when he placed MT's body in the shade of the relatively humid corn rows and covering leaves on soil with a rich insect and soil biota in a hot Iowa summer.

Perp DNA findings on autopsy will depend on just how prolonged and active bacterial putrafication was, and how much of the body remained intact. While we know that the collection and findings of such scant DNA are possible, because of the time and circumstances of decomp associated with MT, I think that the chances of finding anything of evidentiary value regarding CBR are less than 50/50, if at all possible. However, the best labs and people available are working on this, and if at all possible, they will find whatever there is left to find.

Not sure if this was discussed earlier, but according to the online court records for the case, a search warrant was recently served on CR on the 27th. Normally when a search warrant for the search of a property is done there will be another case number assigned to that with the letter SW. The search warrant that was served on CR was listed under the murder charge case and I would think this warrant was to collect a DNA sample. Whether this is normal procedure in a case such as this, I don't know, but hopefully DNA was found during the autopsy or investigation and LE needs CR's DNA to be compared it DNA that was found to determine if CR was the perpetrator.

JMO

 

[rebel123]

Not sure if it's been mentioned before or not; but when LE interviewed him; I'm sure they would of shown him the CCTV footage they had obtained; that led to his co-operation.

 

[TL4S]

This is 707.2.1.b, the section of Iowa criminal code that is not what CR faces charges for.

BBM

707.2 Murder in the first degree.
1. A person commits murder in the first degree when the person commits murder under any of the following circumstances:
b. The person kills another person while participating in a forcible felony.

It even says on the affidavit, under the Narrative section, "On or about the above stated date and time, the Defendant did having malice aforethought, willfully, deliberately, and with premeditation kill Mollie Cecelia Tibbetts."

 

[duster1979]

This is 707.2.1.b, the section of Iowa criminal code that is not what CR faces charges for.

BBM

707.2 Murder in the first degree.
1. A person commits murder in the first degree when the person commits murder under any of the following circumstances:
b. The person kills another person while participating in a forcible felony.

Because at this point they don't know exactly what happened. Going by his confession, it seems that he simply got mad and killed her when she spurned his advances, which is best covered by a.

If further investigation determines that he meant to assault her but not kill her, or that he killed her in the process of committing or covering up a sexual assault, or that he killed her by mistake because he thought she was someone else, or for some other reason along those lines, I'm sure the charge will be switched to b.

But at this point - or at least at the point in time that the warrant was issued - all they know points to premeditated murder, which falls under subsection a.

 

[cluciano63]

Doesn’t abduction combined with murder (in any degree) still equal life without parole? Add sexual assault and any other crimes, should be fairly certain he will get the max upon conviction. Jmo

 

[Jealoushe]

There could be sperm DNA on her clothing too.

 

[gliving]

WOW BUF, great post, and fantastic citation!

I knew that the literature on long post-mortum semen collection would be scanty, but a great synopsis couple of paragraphs! I am pleased to see that the literature supports viable forensic findings as far out as 36 days to 5-6 weeks. This would lend credence to any such findings in MT's case at 33 days, and shows that such collection is possible. Of note is that the far outlayer of 5-6 weeks was from a mummified corpse. DNA (and spermatoozoa) will best preserve in a cool and dry bacteria free environment. Unfortunately, CBR hit the jackpot, foriensicly speaking, when he placed MT's body in the shade of the relatively humid corn rows and covering leaves on soil with a rich insect and soil biota in a hot Iowa summer.

Perp DNA findings on autopsy will depend on just how prolonged and active bacterial putrafication was, and how much of the body remained intact. While we know that the collection and findings of such scant DNA are possible, because of the time and circumstances of decomp associated with MT, I think that the chances of finding anything of evidentiary value regarding CBR are less than 50/50, if at all possible. However, the best labs and people available are working on this, and if at all possible, they will find whatever there is left to find.

I guess. Take into account the foreign dna from the 1000s of microbes on the body also digesting any semen. Seems they'd have better luck on an inorganic surface such as polyester sports clothing.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015...ed-microbes-break-down-our-bodies-after-death

 

[kpm]

Taking the path of least resistance, I’m thinking information which CR offered during the interview, as written on the affidavit adequately supports “willfully, deliberate and with premeditation”.

The event that provoked him - he stated he got mad when Mollie said she was going to call police.

What were his options?
1. Run back to his car and speed off as quickly as possible.
2. Let her make the phonecall and hang around until police arrive to face possible consequences.
3. Inflict multiple sharp force injuries causing her death.

He (allegedly) chose option 3. Making that choice was “willful, deliberate and premeditated”.

JMO

Moo

He likely feared deportation if reported

He would have to kill his victim in order to avoid it

He could not risk talking to LE in scenarios #1 and 2

Question comes down to did he think she would go willingly with him or did he plan the whole thing

I think it was plannned, he brazenly followed her and got out of his car to run beside her, he knew he had a high potential of risk doing both of those yet he still did them, if his version is true.

He approached someone who didn’t fear deportation or LE as say his GF might have if she reported him.

 

[BUF]

I would assume that SW was probably in search for the weapon used on Mollie, or possibly some of her personal items not recovered (piece of clothing, Fitbit, phone, piece of jewelry, etc.).

A SW could have also been served at another property that he may have given something to another person.

 

[TL4S]

I would assume that SW was probably in search for the weapon used on Mollie, or possibly some of her personal items not recovered (piece of clothing, Fitbit, phone, piece of jewelry, etc.).

A SW could have also been served at another property that he may have given something to another person.

Like sold her iPhone.

 

[kpm]

Not sure if it's been mentioned before or not; but when LE interviewed him; I'm sure they would of shown him the CCTV footage they had obtained; that led to his co-operation.

IMO, the mere mention of it may have sufficed, they did say he cooperated.

They got him to remeber parts of his “block out” putting him at the abduction scene and site of the body, hopefully they have more that’s not it the warrant

 

[TL4S]

Moo

He likely feared deportation if reported

He would have to kill his victim in order to avoid it

He could not risk talking to LE in scenarios #1 and 2

Question comes down to did he think she would go willingly with him or did he plan the whole thing

I think it was plannned, he brazenly followed her and got out of his car to run beside her, he knew he had a high potential of risk doing both of those yet he still did them, if his version is true.

He approached someone who didn’t fear deportation or LE as say his GF might have if she reported him.

Maybe he's followed girls and approached them this way in the past but they hadn't felt as threatened due to location, whatever, so they didn't react the same as MT did when she was in a position of isolation and no other alternative? Or maybe he had recently progressed to this level of pursuing?

 

[BUF]

Like sold her iPhone.

Or her promise ring.

 

[MistyWaters]

Taking the path of least resistance, I’m thinking information which CR offered during the interview, as written on the affidavit adequately supports “willfully, deliberate and with premeditation”.

The event that provoked him - he stated he got mad when Mollie said she was going to call police.

What were his options?
1. Run back to his car and speed off as quickly as possible.
2. Let her make the phonecall and hang around until police arrive to face possible consequences.
3. Inflict multiple sharp force injuries causing her death.

He (allegedly) chose option 3. Making that choice was “willful, deliberate and premeditated”.

JMO

Apologies in quoting my own post but what’s particularly heartbreaking about this case is Mollie likely expected he’d chose option 1 and leave her alone. That’s predictable behaviour - someone approaches, unwanted advances, hassling a person, if “I’m not interested” doesn’t work, then threatening to call the police is enough to cause the aggressor to leave. Happens all the time. Horrible, instead she’s viciously stabbed to death. I’d have a hard time believing any jury would have “reasonable doubt” about anything other than Mollie’s death was intentionally caused due to CRs violent reaction involving his uncontrolled anger over a totally innocent incident. I don’t think CR stands a chance if he takes it to trial.

 

[Al Hoffman]

Morbid question, but has Mollie actually been laid to rest? Meaning, buried. I know a memorial service took place and read her brothers were going to be pallbearers. But there wasn't a casket. Unless it was at another service.

No a Very good question! If anyone out there has any into reguarding a burial, please post!

IMOO, I do not think that MT has yet been interred, and will not be for a while. If you've watched the TV series Bones you may have an idea of how forensic anthropologists work, except that in real life their toys are not as big and expensive and shiney. But, the ME said that he would consult with forensic anthropologists, and just like Dr Brennan they work with bones.
Which bones and when examined is the question. This can involve defleshing and further prep, to provide a clean dry skeleton for the anthropologist, just like you see laid out on the table in the TV show. Some bones may have been kept after autopsy, and the remaining remains returned to the family for burial. Or...

MOO is that MT has not yet been returned to the family, and they will eventually be given skeletal remains for burial.

 

[kpm]

Maybe he's followed girls and approached them this way in the past but they hadn't felt as threatened due to location, whatever, so they didn't react the same as MT did when she was in a position of isolation and no other alternative? Or maybe he had recently progressed to this level of pursuing?

Moo

I think he’s been approaching girls for some time with no luck, if the stories about him are true most brushed him off whether on text or in person, most knew of him so they didn’t feel too threatened by him

I think the rejection was building up in him for some time and he wanted revenge, to stroke his ego, if you will.

He picked a spot where he had the upper hand with Mollie, she had no where to escape him and there were no witnesses that he could see

The one girl who’s BF said he followed called her boyfriend, maybe that deterred CR from acting on abducting her, if story is true.

I think he stalked many girls and waited for the right time to exact his revenge

Again, IMO

 

[TL4S]

Or her promise ring.

Or earbuds.

 

[kpm]

Apologies in quoting my own post but what’s particularly heartbreaking about this case is Mollie likely expected he’d chose option 1 and leave her alone. That’s predictable behaviour - someone approaches, unwanted advances, hassling a person, if “I’m not interested” doesn’t work, then threatening to call the police is enough to cause the aggressor to leave. Happens all the time. Horrible, instead she’s viciously stabbed to death. I’d have a hard time believing any jury would have “reasonable doubt” about anything other than Mollie’s death was intentionally caused due to CRs violent reaction involving his uncontrolled anger over a totally innocent incident. I don’t think CR stands a chance if he takes it to trial.

Spot on!

Moo

Most guys would walk away

Someone who wants to abduct and possibly rape the girl will do just that, no matter what threats she makes.

That’s where CR falls, he had 3 options, drive away, risk LE showing up if he didn’t stop or carry out his plan

Carrying out his plan appears to be the only thing he was centered on given he had other options.

 

[IowaMom4]

Another thought, why was he mapping himself in the first place?

He lived and worked near there and made frequent visits to town for food and whatnot

I think he mapped out the spot he planned to carry out his dirty deed ahead of time, he picked a spot beforehand he thought was secluded enough, can’t wait for the details to come out!

He may have even had her route mapped out so it would be easier to find her that day.

Do any of you have Google Timeline enabled on your phone? I use it as kind of a journal. I can go to my Google Timeline, click on any day in the past and it will show me exactly where I traveled. Home, church, work, restaurants, stores, friend's homes....it maps it all out. Times and locations, all on the map. If I take any pictures that day, they show up on my timeline at the time I took them. It is a fantastic tool for me for remembering vacations, etc. Or when hubby and I are talking and a question comes up "When did we go to ___________?" I just pull up my timeline and can figure it out in just a few seconds.

I've wondered if he didn't use something like that?