IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #41

[Bravo]

I cant think of one case where a Defense claimed killer was simply cruising for chicks and it morphed into this. If as he claims Mollie's words caused his block out I think we would see a he77 of a lot more dead girls. Victim blame much killer? IMO he is a violent predator, killer and liar.

 

[MistyWaters]

If killer was simply looking for something to do and meet up with girls he had a car. Drive to the nearest town that offers more. However I don't think this was who he was and what he was about. There was an article speaking to killer keeping to himself. Seems he was comfortable being out and about as gal who was home visiting and knew Mollie ran into him when she was missing.

Firstly we have to assume CR would’ve been capable of attracting a mutually healthy relationship if he had the opportunity. That’s a mistaken assumption - something about his might’ve just been “off” (no doubt considering he admitted his block outs of memory when he gets very upset). A social setting protects females from creeps. But Mollie wasn’t afforded that protection because of the location he chose to approach her.

Regardless of what his motivation was - preplanned violent attack or deluded infatuated hopefulness and upon rebuke he went nuts, both theories point in the same direction.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence in the majority of cases involving young men who inflict violence, for various reasons it seems they’re unsuccessful in developing healthy relationships with others.

 

[Al Hoffman]

Interesting. Are you familiar with the Gladeau Principle in Canada? It’s quite similar to what you’re referring to except it relates to our aboriginal people.
Key Factors Relevant to Aboriginal Sentencing Considerations | Gladue Sentencing Principles

Thank you very much, and no I was not aware of Gladue. Yes, this is very parallel to my ideas as to what might be a basis for suppressing CR's confession. The very existence of the Gladue principle as part of Canadian law would lend strong credence to a cultural milieu challenge of Miranda.

My cultural milieu basis is only a posit, and only as a basis to go after the Miranda. I do not think that this concept in anyway absolves CBR for his criminal act.

 

[Stormy21]

bbm



CR would have had to be under arrest or detained (in custody) for Miranda to be an arguable issue. LE informing CR they have video of (him driving and following MT in) the Chevy Malibu might have been the catalyst that led to CR cooperating. I'm guessing LE did not arrest CR until after he led them to MT.

Miranda is operable when a person is detained for questioning. A suspect does not have to be either arrested or 'in custody'.

And a Miranda violation does not mean any case is thrown out. It simply means that information obtained in that questioning would likely not be used as evidence in court (although it still can be used as evidence sometimes).

No one is suggesting that a person from another country can ignore the laws of the country he/she visits or lives in. Complete straw man. And no one would suggest that stalking someone is a way to get dates.

 

[cluciano63]

I have blown off plenty of men over the years...none murdered me.

 

[kpm]

Authorities have not revealed when, exactly, Tibbetts was killed and Mortvedt would not comment on whether or not Tibbetts was held captive for a period of time. “At this point, we can’t talk about [it],” he says.


“All of a sudden he just does it,” Mitch Mortvedt, assistant director of the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation, tells PEOPLE. “Who escalates to abduction, kidnapping and homicide that fast?”


“Corn … in Iowa this time of year is over eight feet tall and has that long skinny leaves as it grows and blossoms, and [Rivera] had ripped off a bunch of those off the corn stalk and just kind of laid them on her to try to camouflage her,” says Mortvedt.



Mollie Tibbetts’ Body Was Found 500 Yards Into Cornfield: ‘He Tried to Camouflage Her’

 

[claire_parker]

No excuses for what he has done. Zero.
Working in a community very closely w many illegals I will say in my experience they do have a sense of self entitlement in a way that they are very pushy. Alcohol magnifies the pushy behavior. With the ladies. They ask you questions about your personal life others don’t and expect answers. If you aren’t interested in them they want to know why. They are very forward. It shocked me at first. I learned to nip it in the bud. I say no espanol.. lol Showing up repeatedly after contact is a huge problem and is taken as flirtation. I work w a young lady that is legal from Mexico and very traditional. She verifies a lot for me when I have questions. It’s hard to explain and I am not being ugly at all I am only sharing what I see and live on the job. At times I do think it’s the language barrier as they don’t always know the right words to use. But they do know right from wrong yes no. That’s universal. It’s my firm opinion some believe they are superior to women and get violent when not obliged. When it came out what happened to Mollie I was shocked and sickened because it seems so exactly right on. Makes me so sick. Again just my experience and opinions. The other 90% I see are very kind hard working people. Just don’t say anything about ice. Universal word as well lol
Happy Friday y’all . RIP beautiful Mollie.
I believe he targeted her after she didn’t oblige him. Cat calling etc.

He has zero excuses I agree. I don't care about his race or cultural differences or language barriers. He is a predator, sociopath, psychopath and above all a criminal. Nothing is punishment enough for what he did. I too hope he rots in hell

 

[SharonNeedles]

Good morning! I worked on something last night.

First of all, here is a good article explaining cell tower triangulation.

Cell Tower Triangulation – How it Works


I also found a map of cell tower locations (red balloons), and added possible cell ranges for some of the towers that could have been pinged along the straightest route from 385 and 200 south to 460 and east to the cornfield.
*I'm estimating the range sizes based on general information because I don't have specifics.

Map Key:

*Blue Line - CR's possible driving route

*Orange circles - small circles are the tower I'm referencing, large circles are the possible ranges, and these are the towers CR would have driven through first heading south on 200.

*Yellow circles - small are the towers being refereneced, large are the ranges, and these are the towers CR would have driven through going east on 460.

*Red squares are the 430 point of interest from LE map, and the pig farm.

Bear in mind, I'm considering two towers being pinged at once since the route seems mostly to be even between towers. This may not have been the actual case. Also, in reality each range is divided into sectors, which would have narrowed the overlapping area even more, but I don't have that information, either.

IMO, if CR was driving east on 460, almost to hwy 21, just north of the pig farm, the farm very well could have been within the triangulated range. Most of the areas searched near Guernsey are probably in range. JMO

By no means am I an expert. Please correct me on any of it!!

I’ll need to look this a little closer at home (my iPhone screen is too small for my liking) but it appears that the yellow circles intersect at two places - is that near WC’s farm on the left and the body location on the right?

 

[rebel123]

A very brief summary - Diminished Capacity Defense - Criminal Defense Wiki

A bit more here - Diminished Capacity (Forensic Psychology) - iResearchNet

O/T - Defense Fails to Present Diminished Capacity, Ninth Circuit Vacates Murder Convictions | Criminal Legal News

 

[TL4S]

I’ll need to look this a little closer at home (my iPhone screen is too small for my liking) but it appears that the yellow circles intersect at two places - is that near WC’s farm on the left and the body location on the right?

Yes, they intersect in two places. The pig farm is lower left and the body is on the right.

 

[SharonNeedles]

SharonNeedles posted in last thread that he could not understand why Mollie would run to a desolate area. Words to that effect. IMO that road was part of Mollie's usual run and again Blitz attack. She had no idea what was to come. There was no conversation etc. etc.

Heading east out of town on 385th was never a part of her known route. Not to mention it makes no sense to start an out-of-town run that close to dusk.

Looking at that intersection in street view and trying to imagine where CR could have just pulled over, got out and run along side her is problematic as well. Not to mention that road does have through traffic (not a whole lot by any means, but certainly not isolated).

There’s something in CR’s story here that doesn’t fit... Weather permitting I’m going to head over and get some panaramic and perspective pictures of that intersection this weekend.

 

[MistyWaters]

Authorities have not revealed when, exactly, Tibbetts was killed and Mortvedt would not comment on whether or not Tibbetts was held captive for a period of time. “At this point, we can’t talk about [it],” he says.


“All of a sudden he just does it,” Mitch Mortvedt, assistant director of the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation, tells PEOPLE. “Who escalates to abduction, kidnapping and homicide that fast?”


“Corn … in Iowa this time of year is over eight feet tall and has that long skinny leaves as it grows and blossoms, and [Rivera] had ripped off a bunch of those off the corn stalk and just kind of laid them on her to try to camouflage her,” says Mortvedt.



Mollie Tibbetts’ Body Was Found 500 Yards Into Cornfield: ‘He Tried to Camouflage Her’

That he allegedly admitted to hidding her body in a corn field and used corn stalks as a camouflage, then was able to lead LE to that same location is what the prosecution will use to nail him to the wall.

The concealment and his memory of the location proves he knew the difference between right and wrong by his motivation to hide the crime and eliminate himself from involvement (until he was faced with reality by LE questioning, presumably).

 

[Al Hoffman]

bbm



CR would have had to be under arrest or detained (in custody) for Miranda to be an arguable issue. LE informing CR they have video of (him driving and following MT in) the Chevy Malibu might have been the catalyst that led to CR cooperating. I'm guessing LE did not arrest CR until after he led them to MT.

Good point, and an even better basis on which to challenge Miranda in this case. You point out that Miranda must be given when the suspect is in custody, which also means that the suspect does not (in his opinion) have a reasonable expectation of walking away. At what point does an undocumented immigrant have a reasonable expectation of walking away? If ICE was in the room, or even just provided an interpreter, would an undocumented alien feel free to just get up and walk out of the room? That is when custody begins, and I'm sure that this team of LE did Mirandize as early as possible, when it became apparent that CBR was of increasing interest, and before CBR said anything substantive. If the FBI were involved, I am sure of this. I was personally involved in a Capitol Murder case that was pled down to 20 years because 5 of 7 incriminating statements were thrown out by the Judge. It does happen in real life.

However, this example underscores reasons why a cultural milieu inability to say no might be a valid basis on which to suppress CR's confession. It is a kind of diminished capacity argument, but one that does not absolve CR of his guilt of the crime.

All of this is just a posit of course, and I am looking forward to seeing just what the defense will do next. I'm not worried about the eventual outcome of the game, I'm just curious about the possible point spread and how the game will be played.

 

[rebel123]

Mollie Tibbetts' father turns grief into humanity lesson | Editorial

Home surveillance cameras are the new neighborhood watch - KTVQ.com

 

[kpm]

That he allegedly admitted to hidding her body in a corn field and used corn stalks as a camouflage, then was able to lead LE to that same location is what the prosecution will use to nail him to the wall.

The concealment and his memory of the location proves he knew the difference between right and wrong by his motivation to hide the crime and eliminate himself from involvement (until he was faced with reality by LE questioning, presumably).

He admitted to:

Circling her in his car

Seeing her before this abduction

Jogging beside and behind her (she must have been faster than him if he was behind her at some point, probably trying to outrun him)

Mollie telling him him to stop or she would call 911

Becoming so mad be blocked out

Transporting the body to a different location

Some type of head wound

Disposing of a body

Concealing a body



Posting this again......it was clear when they found the body that he had caused some kind of personal injury to her just from viewing the body.


From the arrest warrant under General Probable Cause

Defendant Implicated:

03-Admission/Statement

09-Near Scene of Crime

13-Caused Personal Injury


http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/082118+DCI+Arrest.pdf

 

[MistyWaters]

Heading east out of town on 385th was never a part of her known route. Not to mention it makes no sense to start an out-of-town run that close to dusk.

Looking at that intersection in street view and trying to imagine where CR could have just pulled over, got out and run along side her is problematic as well. Not to mention that road does have through traffic (not a whole lot by any means, but certainly not isolated).

There’s something in CR’s story here that doesn’t fit... Weather permitting I’m going to head over and get some panaramic and perspective pictures of that intersection.

That would be very interesting! Your helpfulness is giving the rest of us here actual and true views is greatly appreciated.

My only though is Mollie was forced to head east out of town because CR parked his car close to the intersection. As he began running after her, she chose the opposite direction out of town to intentionally lengthen the distance between him and his parked vehicle, hoping she could out run him and he might give up the chase and turn back.

That he admitted to running along side her is really quite horrifying to imagine. If she already was in great fear of him, it’d be near impossible to maintain a constant pace plus make a cellphone call to police at the same time.

 

[kpm]

All about Miranda rights

Miranda Rights: What Happens If the Police Don't Read You Your Rights

 

[Bravo]

I don't think we were ever told exactly what 3 usual running routes Mollie used? I may not have seen it.

 

[kpm]

That would be very interesting! Your helpfulness is giving the rest of us here actual and true views is greatly appreciated.

My only though is Mollie was forced to head east out of town because CR parked his car close to the intersection. As he began running after her, she chose the opposite direction out of town to intentionally lengthen the distance between him and his parked vehicle, hoping she could out run him and he might give up the chase and turn back.

That he admitted to running along side her is really quite horrifying to imagine. If she already was in great fear of him, it’d be near impossible to maintain a constant pace plus make a cellphone call to police at the same time.

By his own admission he ran beside her and behind her, that would indicate she was trying to flee from him and he didn’t give up his pursuit of her at that point.

We have him trolling her by car and on foot, he had at least two opportunities to end his pursuit of her.

I think he ran her out of town away from houses, moo

 

[rebel123]

All about Miranda rights

Miranda Rights: What Happens If the Police Don't Read You Your Rights

They would of had a translator at hand to translate them for him; and taped the translation.