ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 61

[TL4S]

LOL between the 3 of us, I was responding to @TL4S who thought X's bedroom was below M's, thought I could answer on my way out the door but apparently didn't finish my sentence, I'm sorry.

Looks like others helped, I see a floor plan since I left. The thing that helped me in floor plans because I've seen them from both the front and the back of the house is

K's room and kitchen are on the back east side. Facing back yard.

M's room over DM's are on the back west side. Facing back yard.

X's room and living room are over the bedrooms on the bottom floor. Facing driveway.

Ugh... I'm sorry if I messed anyone else up. The second floor is what tripped me up, except for the kitchen. I had the kitchen figured out.

 

[MsBetsy]

I'm not caught up yet, but I wanted to say Welcome !

I think M and K were asleep together (or K might have said the line DM heard, so in my theory she has just awakened and is confused).

I think E was probably asleep, too. Or nearly so again.

I think X was stabbed in the lung to silence her (maybe outside of the bedroom) and then the killer focused on E. I think bk came back to X. And she's who made the crying sounds DM and the neighbor's cam recorded.

I think X fought with him as he was going to E, too.

I doubt the victims had much of a chance to fight back. I think his plan was to attack when all were asleep and defenseless. I wonder if he saw the door delivery at the front door. Maybe he hesitated for a moment, then decided to go through with it despite the risks. That would explain his passing the house three times and making the three quarter turn, heading back towards the house.

If Xana was returning to her room after getting her food and encountered BK brandishing the bloodied knife, she may have been frozen in fear like her roommate was.

If it was Xana crying, BK might have told her he would help her as a distraction right before he struck. She probably didn't have time to scream. Ethan may have already been dead.

The defensive wounds could be from the victim raising their arms to protect their face and chest.

What a coward BK is.

 

[CityKid]

I found this article from the Daily Mail interesting where they speak with a publisher who says the books and movie rights could go for $25 million.

Publishers gear up to bid $25m for rights to Idaho murders story

Major book publishers and Hollywood producers are already gearing up to bid tens of millions of dollars to secure exclusive rights to the Idaho college student murders case, DailyMail.com can reveal.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Not only that, but the people who are intimately involved in this case - LE, state police, FBI, CSI, investigators, reporters, family members of BK and the victims, friends of BK, will all be approached to "sell" their piece of the story. They will be offered BIG MONEY, and for many of these folks - federal Marshals, crime scene investigators, LE, state police, FBI - they have clauses in their employer's policies and procedures that would forbid them from taking money in the course of their jobs.

However, that won't stop publishers and media outlets from asking them. For some of these folks who may be near retirement age, it may be far more lucrative to retire or quit their jobs so that they can profit from this case. I know it sounds unethical, but the lure of big money can compromise even the most ethical people.

Right now, the biggest players whose stories would sell for the most money are - as the article says - BCK himself, and in my opinion, these people - his new public defender, the police chief, the coroner, the medical examiners, the two surviving roommates, MM's boyfriend and KG's ex-boyfriend.

It's unfortunate that people involved with big cases like this one know that there could be a big payday at the end of this case. I just hope that BCK himself cannot sell his story and profit from these murders.

The story talks about how it could be bigger than "In Cold Blood"—which Truman Capote researched in Kansas before anyone was even arrested, then spent six years writing, first through articles in the New Yorker. DM is really big on saying any peripheral person is going to make a ton of money on their story; a good writer could do this story justice but no one named here is getting this kind of crazy money for telling part of the story. MOO; I work in media.

 

[YepperBepper]

Chris Watts?

Carl Eugene.

 

[Followfacts]

Is there any knowledge of Kohberger ever having any girlfriends? Any evidence he was a virgin or reports he had he been "unable to perform" (to put it delicately) which may have instilled some irrational hatred of women?

Trying to sort out reasons why he might have decided specifically to kill only, rather than incorporate other crimes, as some notable serial killers had done in the past.

I've lost track of the threads for a few days, has any consensus developed on Kohberger attempting to emulate a specific killer, i.e. Bundy or Rader, etc? Any indications he may have been trying to impress or "out-think" his former crime professor?

It's difficult to assess at this point the level of intelligence he possesses. Obviously he's not the genius he might have fancied himself. Former prof did describe him as smart though. Have a suspicion any explanations as to why may never be known, unless some confession happens as part of a plea-deal or death-row soul cleansing. Imo.

IMO he may have desired to be apart of the popular student crowd possibly dating back to earlier years and that social acceptance, lifestyle reality he desired never existed for him. IMO he wanted to attack it, that place symbolized it for him.

When they first said targeting the house, I thought what?? How and why do you target a house? It was the house and everything it stood for that he was not a part of.IMO

 

[osu]

Finished with the Morphew case and now moving onto the next? SMH

BBM

‘While experts like Mary Phan, professor at the University of Washington School of Law, called the police work "a perfect case study in modern investigative techniques," others expressed caution.’

‘Well-known Colorado defense attorney Iris Eytan said she thought the newly released charging document reflect a police department desperate to make an arrest without considering other possible suspects or exploring why the surviving roommates didn’t do more to help their friends.’

'A perfect case study': How advances in tech allowed Idaho police to unravel mysterious student killings

 

[Past Mortem]

Long post incoming, but it’s late at night here and I’ve been racking my brain about a few points I just can’t wrap my head round and figured we could all drive ourselves crazy together!

I’m sure this has been discussed, but does anyone have any thoughts on why BK chose to drive only approximately 10 miles crossing State lines into a state that has the death penalty to commit his crime when that state he was in doesn’t have it? Seems like an extremely risky move.

Also, I can’t get my head around his stupidity/laziness/boldness/carelessness/I-can’t-decide-on-which-of-the-above regarding his phone usage in the lead up and on the day of the murders. IMO most people with basic understanding or interest in true crime I would think know that your phone is very easily tracked if it needs to be, and even turning it off and back on raises a whole other set of red flags in itself. Regardless of whether or not BK was a ‘good’ student or not, it has to be assumed he has more than a basic knowledge of how this stuff works given his area of studies. Even if he was a terrible student, I would think he would still know more than the average person regarding this, and IMO the average person knows enough to not do any of what he did! I know we all have this same question about everything in this case, but why, why, whyyyyyy??

People keep talking about how they believe he was so confident in his abilities that he never expected to be caught, but regardless of that, why would he not at least control the things he could control - not taking your phone to the scene of a major crime EVER would be one of those things I would think? Burner phone? No phone at all? Get into a habit of turning your phone off at bed time and back on at sunrise each morning as a future cover as to why it was off that night? Anything would’ve been better than what he did.

Also, I may be wrong with this, but if genetic forensic analysis was used on the knife sheath to link BK, is it not the case that doing so uses up that DNA sample? I could be wrong and I’m happy to be corrected, but I feel like I’ve read cold cases where they’ve been hesitant to go down the genetic testing route because they had limited DNA samples remaining and didn’t want to rush into it if a) technology would improve over the years allowing LE to use the DNA Sample in other ways and/or b) Le didn’t want to rush in and use up the sample if waiting another say 5 years could return better results and matches.

IF that is correct and the case, IMO LE has a significant amount of DNA evidence from the killer to give them the confidence to go straight into genetic testing while the case is still so hot.

The reason I bring the DNA into this post is because if BK did leave a scene with his DNA all over it, it means he couldn’t have thought his careful planning to not leave DNA was enough to get him by and allow him to bring his phone to the scene on multiple occasions.

So again… why? I’m going round in circles and nothing makes sense.

 

[cottonweaver]

IMO he may have desired to be apart of the popular student crowd possibly dating back to earlier years and that social acceptance, lifestyle reality he desired never existed for him. IMO he wanted to attack it, that place symbolized it for him.

When they first said targeting the house, I thought what?? How and why do you target a house? It was the house and everything it stood for that he was not a part of.IMO

Have also previously wondered if this is why there might be a pattern on the dates he is ' stalking'

 

[Sjöberg]

Did he say BK had been living in Washington for a year? I thought it was just one semester and he arrived in the summer.

Frankly, we have no idea when he moved to WA, afaik. It's just been stated that it was his first semester as a phd student and that classes began in late August. IIRC he did change the phone plan in June in PA, but that might have nothing to do with where his permanent location was at that time. So for all I know, he could have been there for a year as well - but I've never seen anything saying that, either.

I’m sure this has been discussed, but does anyone have any thoughts on why BK chose to drive only approximately 10 miles crossing State lines into a state that has the death penalty to commit his crime when that state he was in doesn’t have it? Seems like an extremely risky move.

Honestly, I'm starting to think that he simply did not know/notice/care. I think the benefit/point of crossing state lines was to make it "impossible" for LA to connect him to the crime. I don't think he researched Idaho laws at all. And the reason he crossed state lines might also be just that his target lived there. I am not convinced that he simply chose "someone" to kill, there could be a previous contact that preceeded the plan to kill them (and has the motive).

Also, I may be wrong with this, but if genetic forensic analysis was used on the knife sheath to link BK, is it not the case that doing so uses up that DNA sample? I could be wrong and I’m happy to be corrected, but I feel like I’ve read cold cases where they’ve been hesitant to go down the genetic testing route because they had limited DNA samples remaining and didn’t want to rush into it if a) technology would co to use to improve over the years allowing LE to use the DNA Sample in other ways and/or b) Le didn’t want to rush in and use up to sample if waiting another day 5 years could return better results and matches.

It is possible that it uses up the sample, but the data generated from the sample with the technology they had - meaning the genetic code of the individual (GGTAAC...) that they found, that is safely on the computer. So they can sill compare to that, even if there is no more dna on the seath (and I don't think that's the case here).

The worry is more connected to the cases where the dna material is bad and you cannot get a full profile, so you're afraid or getting such a bad result that it only rules out like 50% of the population of the world and so you wait for better technology to get more data out of that bad sample.

MOO

 

[LeeAnnB]

Long post incoming, but it’s late at night here and I’ve been racking my brain about a few points I just can’t wrap my head round and figured we could all drive ourselves crazy together!

I’m sure this has been discussed, but does anyone have any thoughts on why BK chose to drive only approximately 10 miles crossing State lines into a state that has the death penalty to commit his crime when that state he was in doesn’t have it? Seems like an extremely risky move.

P

You have lots of good questions! Regarding a death penalty state, I don’t think criminals put much thought into what happens if they get caught. Weighing death penalty vs. life in prison… just doesn’t seem to factor in the decision to commit murder. Also I think as a sociopath must also be a malignant narcissist and therefore believe you are smarter than everyone else. The more I’ve learned about BK, he is a book smart fellow but his emotions appear to dictate his behavior and cloud his judgement.

 

[Momac-07]

I hope so. Last we heard, SG was saying they were seeing connections. Right hand, left hand. JMO

I’m guessing he was initially seeing all those profiles that turned out to be fake. Several popped up right after his arrest and showed as following some of the victims. Those all seem to have turned out to be fake, so perhaps that’s the turnabout. Best to speak less as this get sorted out.

 

[Rumination1]

I don't have your graphics prowess, but this (my crude red line) is the line/distance in question.

View attachment 394485

Before it was blurred I think I saw a photo w a camera mount d on the corner of that house to the left of the pin on the corner near the green hedge/lawn

 

[EJB123456]

Are we sure she ordered Jack-in-the-Box? Their website shows no location in Moscow, and one location in Pullman, open from 6AM to 12AM.

Only speculation as far as I know.

 

[Past Mortem]

It is possible that it uses up the sample, but the data generated from the sample with the technology they had - meaning the genetic code of the individual (GGTAAC...) that they found, that is safely on the computer. So they can sill compare to that, even if there is no more dna on the seath (and I don't think that's the case here).

The worry is more connected to the cases where the dna material is bad and you cannot get a full profile, so you're afraid or getting such a bad result that it only rules out like 50% of the population of the world and so you wait for better technology to get more data out of that bad sample.

MOO

Thanks @Sjöberg that makes sense.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

very interesting but notice that it states this

'Up until that point, in late December, he hadn’t stood out among all the other Elantra owners, the source said, something that is reinforced by a close, informed reading of the affidavit'

That would mean that, in mid December, they had no need to physically track him en route back to PA, because he didn't stand out as a suspect at that time.
So everything we were reading, last week about the plane & car surveillance of his & his father's journey wasn't actually true.

It "wasn't actually true" only if - and that is a Hollywood sign-sized IF - the one anonymous source in the article was sharing accurate info with the journalist.

 

[Colorado303]

Ummm… should this attorney even be opening his mouth, let alone making such bold statements like this? Respectfully, what does he know? HE is not LE or involved in the investigation, OR the case… he’s representing the Goncalves family, which is completely independent of BK’s case. There’s a gag order, and if LE wasn’t sharing information with SG previously, when Steve was sick with worry and the belief that this case might go cold, and he was having a total conniption fit (and rightfully so in my mind… if I were Kaylee’s parent in this situation I’d be doing precisely the same), then why on earth would LE divulge any information now… it’s not like it was fun for LE to watch Steve go through that, or like they didn’t have human compassion and wish we lived in a world where they could share their information to ease his pain. They did it because they knew it was more important to keep quiet so that they could ultimately make sure that SG and all the other grieving families would be able to have the best chance of getting the justice that they deserve. So what on earth should make us believe that any of that has changed, and any information related to this has been shared with their attorney. Especially given the stakes, as well as the fact that there’s a gag order in effect? He has no right to say these things in my opinion, and should keep quiet… we don’t know if there’s a connection or not, and if it turns out that there is one, then we’re left with the memory of this attorney claiming there wasn’t. That’s not helpful to anyone, especially to his clients. Ughhh.

There were plenty of people I was acquainted with/met casually in college that my roommates/friends weren’t aware of. Not that they were secret, just there was no reason to mention them. Someone I sat w/on the campus bus, smoked a cigarette w/between classes, saw frequently at the library, etc.

And lots more people I might mention to friend whom my family knew nothing about. IMO it’s a bit audacious for any girl’s father to believe he’s aware of everyone she associates with. Especially once she is away at college. Even if he reads her diary and monitors her social media there will be aquaintances omitted by choice or circumstance.

SG’s been told in any number of ways it’s not helpful to comment on the investigation. I understand he’s grieving and my heart breaks for him and all the other families. But I’m a bit taken aback as to why despite LE’s success he persists. It’s an even bigger mystery to me what kind of attorney would willingly serve as this kind of mouthpiece.

JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

It "wasn't actually true" only if - and that is a Hollywood sign-sized IF - the one anonymous source in the article was sharing accurate info with the journalist.

which ' one source' article do you mean? The Slate article or the tons of articles which reported planes, cars tracking BK?

edited to add
I understand you now. Yes ofc, that's what I am saying - both can't be true. ( We discussed this at the time - was the tracking real time or retrospective, was it physical, which msm sources can actually be believed)

 

[acutename]

Are we sure she ordered Jack-in-the-Box? Their website shows no location in Moscow, and one location in Pullman, open from 6AM to 12AM.

website now says 6am-10pm

Order from Jack In The Box in Pullman, Washington

The best Food in Pullman are a click away! Order online from Jack In The Box in Pullman, Washington. Pickup and delivery available.

locations.jackinthebox.com

I looked it up earlier in one of the threads on this topic and it was 24 hrs....maybe it changes based on the school calendar or maybe no one wanted to be open late any more?

 

[kellala]

IMO its worth considering a few possible reasons a killer would bring there phone:
1. The crime is one of opportunity and no planning or prep was involved,
2. The killer due to lack of planning, undering of police investigation techniques, or IQ, simply overlooked it,
3. The killer, due to their own hubris or narcissism, truly believe they will never be caught or at least wont be seriously considered a suspect and thus, dont think its necessary to turn of their phone,
4. Variety of other random issues

Either way, cell data seems to have played a huge role in the arrest, given the probable cause doc, so I look forward to the prosecution releasing more info on it... eventually

Young generation is phone addict, it is a generation habit to bring phone with you everywhere. If things went bad and police was alarmed he needed to use the phone GPS to navigate. Or he wanted to take pics of victims if he had time.

 

[Mad Hettie]

While some overlap, Cyberstalking is the using the internet or other technologies to stalk a person (sending them unwanted emails, texts, following/posting unwanted items on social media, etc.). Fairly easy to do especially given the social media presence of many people and access freely provided.

Reading ones emails, texts, keyloggers, vehicle tracking, etc. which can fall under cyberstalking might better be thought of as cyberspying, and is not nearly as easily accomplished. Many employers do this legally especially if using equipment they supply, as does the govt. (ymmv)
All IMHO

I became very interested in cyberstalking/cyber spying when I was introduced to it at a domestic violence conference. While it used to be true that someone had to get their hands on your physical objects to install something, that is not the case anymore. It can be done from anywhere in the world, which is how black hat hackers take over whole systems for ransom.

In my original post, I forgot my link.
Apologies!

Has a Cyberstalker Taken Over Your Life? Here’s How to Get It Back

Someone gained complete control over your computers and smartphones and now they’re making your digital life a nightmare. When a stalker gets their hooks in that deep, escape is difficult, but we can help.

www.pcmag.com