ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 43

[Charlot123]

I think the profilers and internet speculators are missing the mark here on this guy. I think there’s something that separates him from your usual suspects that will make this a relatively quiet conclusion. Feel free to skip down to my TLDR for my quick summary take.

Like other killers BK likely put time into physical preparation and planning. Enhanced by all that he knew about the criminal justice system. Likely surveilling and watching. Noticing surroundings, lighting. Shaving body. Carefully selecting clothing. Having disposal means and location of clothing and weapon. Wrapped his feet etc. Knowing that the use of a knife would point to someone in the inner circle. Likely left red herrings behind.

But BK recognized something else that most other killers don’t recognize. The importance of mental preparation and conditioning. And I think it’s likely he thought this would give him an advantage.

He recognized that as soon as he walked through that sliding door he would lose control. And that no matter how much work he did to prepare…there was no way he could anticipate what would happen in that house. So he did his homework and prepared mentally. He recognized that killers make mistakes in the moment because of unanticipated feelings, thoughts, reactions to unanticipated victim behavior…and he tried to account for all of that with the survey. I’m not sure I’ve read about anything like this before with any other killers. This level of mental work. And I bet he thought this would be what would separate him from other killers who were caught.

By all indicators he had been preparing for that moment for years. Laid out what he thought was the perfect plan. A plan informed by his studies, studies that would surely propel him to the highest academic achievement you can receive in his chosen field.

This is a person who seemed to beat addiction by becoming ruthlessly disciplined. Focused all of his energy into his studies (and as a result this crime). There are not many indications that he was operating by instinct like other killers people here keep comparing him to.

All of that just for me to say that he flipped the 50/50 murder coin and failed. He acknowledged and accounted for the unanticipated moments where others didnt. He was a few years from being at the academic pinnacle in his field. and he FAILED.

If this was a Dunning Kruger suffering narcissist who operated most out of instinct and his likely above average (but overestimated on his part) intelligence I’d agree and say …”ya, this guy is going to make a big spectacle at trial on in some grandiose confession” but I don’t think this is that guy.

I think BK is ashamed, confused, embarrassed and likely doesn’t want to relive or face the reality of any of his failed plan. If he doesn’t plead guilty to avoid the death penalty and coming to terms with his failure (and his family and friends learning first hand of it). He’ll sit there in his chair during trial and not utter a word. We’ll likely never hear his side of the story.

______

TLDR; BK invested a lot of time and energy into planning. And they still caught him.

Very perceptive. I think he yearned for a group of likely-minded people though. An example: say, I like purses. I can easily find a purse forum. Every hobby has forums. I found a prayer forum once! But there is no killers' forum, so he tried to find a group.

Just out of curiosity……

Does anyone else think it’s highly likely that one of the other criminology PHD students (only 8 miles and 10-15 minute drive from the murders)…. Could have been who initially tipped off LE to BK as possible suspect?

I mean I’d hope that the professor and other criminology PHD students had a discussion in class about the horrific murders that took place just 8 miles away at neighboring university. I’d think this is something those students would discuss and that they themselves would be invested in trying to find who committed the murders.

That I don't know but I keep in touch with several WSU students, and I was concerned about them after UI murders. They were surprisingly unconcerned.

 

[eloquence]

Is it a given that BK will be extradited to ID? What obstacles could come about?

Per CNN (link) (bolding mine) it sounds like it is a given. He could fight extradition but it seems he will lose and has chosen not to. LaBar is his PA public defender.

"LaBar later told CNN that the extradition hearing is a “formality proceeding.” He said all the Commonwealth needs to prove is that his client resembles or is the person on the arrest warrant and that he was in the area at the time of the crime.

LaBar said he spoke to Kohberger for around an hour Friday evening, discussing where he was at the time of the killings. “Knowing of course that it’s likely they have location data from his cell phone already putting him on the border of Washington and Idaho,” LaBar told CNN, “it was an easy decision obviously, since he doesn’t contest that he is Bryan Kohberger.”

 

[wrytergirl]

I don’t understand the attorneys point when he refers to where BK was that night since they likely have data showing the border of Idaho/Washington. What does that mean and why would he say this in an interview with a reporter? Why would he even ask that Q? He won’t be defending BK in a murder trial. Confused.

My understanding is the only extradition issue is whether he is, in fact, the individual named in the fugitive warrant.

It sounded like it was related to the alibi. Like BK left his phone somewhere else so he can claim it as alibi.

 

[MassGuy]

I can't wait to find out how and where he used his phone. Surely he had one? And surely he took it across country with him. Did he keep turning it off? Did he delete all mapping apps and anything related to Google/Chrome? I wonder if there are search results on his computer and what his computer security settings were? Did he delete all history every single day? Every hour?



I wonder the same thing. He certainly isn't having lots of friendly conversations with the lawyer assigned by PA to represent him in the extradition (apparently he has waived those proceedings).

So he sits there in a cell, for the first time in his life. He may desperately crave information and want to sit in an interrogation room on the view that he can tell, from the questions they're asking, what they know about him.

He seems the type who wants to outwit his interrogators. He can’t, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, or won’t. He’s the exact type of guy I’d expect to talk.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

One thing I want to say about the car. When it was first announced I asked what I thought was a good question about whether LE wanted to hear about Elantra’s in far away states. I seem to recall some believing that no, a car in Florida wouldn’t be relevant. I suggested that a reporter clarify locations of where LE wanted tips from. Did anyone suspect this car could be 2,500 miles away?

My point is this. Take LE for their word next time. Don’t hinder an investigation by NOT calling in a tip OR by attempting to interpret meaning behind the actual words of LE and allowing that interpretation to affect others. MOO

The words were:

If you know of or own a vehicle matching this description, or know of anyone who may have been driving this vehicle on the days preceding or the day of the murders, please forward that information to the Tip Line.

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

Post in thread 'ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27'
ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27

 

[Seattle1]

Please be reminded of facts presented by the Moscow Police Dept on a page dedicated specifically to this case.

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

Frequently Asked Questions​

Did Kaylee have a stalker?

Using tips and leads, investigators have identified an incident involving Kaylee at a local business, which may have been the stalker reference she made to friends and family.

In mid-October, two males were seen inside a local business; they parted ways, and one male appeared to follow Kaylee inside the business and as she exited to walk toward her car.

The male turned away, and it did not appear he made any contact with her. Detectives contacted both males and learned the two were attempting to meet women at the business, this was corroborated through additional investigation.

Based on available information, detectives believe this was an isolated incident and not an ongoing pattern of stalking. No evidence suggests the two males were involved in the murders.

Investigators continue looking into information about Kaylee having a stalker. Information about a potential stalker or unusual occurrences should go through the Tip Line.

• Telephone: 208-883-7180
• Email: tipline@ci.moscow.id.us
• Digital Media: fbi.gov/moscowidaho

 

[Janeumayer]

The DM. Don't believe the headline hype!

DM is quoting his defense attorney. Here’s the CNN link from the DM article and the quote:

Authorities tracked the Idaho student killings suspect cross-country to Pennsylvania, sources say | CNN

Authorities tracked the man charged in the killings of four Idaho college students all the way to Pennsylvania and surveilled him for several days before finally arresting him on Friday, sources told CNN.

www.cnn.com

Suspect is ‘shocked a little bit,’ defense attorney says​

Kohberger was arraigned Friday morning in Pennsylvania and is being held without bail, records show.

Kohberger intends to waive his extradition hearing to expedite his transport to Idaho, Monroe County Chief Public Defender Jason LaBar said in a statement to CNN on Saturday.

“Mr. Kohberger is eager to be exonerated of these charges and looks forward to resolving these matters as promptly as possible,” LaBar said.

LaBar later told CNN that the extradition hearing is a “formality proceeding.” He said all the Commonwealth needs to prove is that his client resembles or is the person on the arrest warrant and that he was in the area at the time of the crime.

LaBar said he spoke to Kohberger for around an hour Friday evening, discussing where he was at the time of the killings. “Knowing of course that it’s likely they have location data from his cell phone already putting him on the border of Washington and Idaho,” LaBar told CNN, “it was an easy decision obviously, since he doesn’t contest that he is Bryan Kohberger.”

Kohberger is “shocked a little bit,” LaBar said. “He’s doing OK. Obviously, he’s calm right now.”

LaBar added, “We don’t really know much about the case. I don’t have any affidavit or probable cause. I didn’t want to discuss the case with him because I’m merely his representation for this procedural issue as to whether or not he wants to be extradited back to Idaho.”

 

[eloquence]

Very perceptive. I think he yearned for a group of likely-minded people though. An example: say, I like purses. I can easily find a purse forum. Every hobby has forums. I found a prayer forum once! But there is no killers' forum, so he tried to find a group.

Unrelated, but I chuckled at this - PurseForum is a very active handbag forum. Right on.

+1 to your point, he could probably find some violence on dark corners at the internet but he clearly immersed himself in crime by studying 2 graduate degrees about it.

 

[jumpingjackflash]

Time for some wild speculation about things unknowable:

Now that BK has been apprehended and it's becoming clear that LE had him under surveillance for quite some time before the arrest, I'm wondering what if any additional measures LE was taking to make BK feel confident that he was not on LE's radar, at least as their prime suspect. I'm thinking especially about some of the "leaked" items, including the video clip of K and M walking from Corner Club to the Grub Bus and the screen grab of K and M inside Corner Club. Also thinking about the repeated references to "22,000 Elantras" and repeated requests for information about E & X's movements that evening and whether LE had this information all along but highlighted it to make BK think they were still at a much earlier stage in their investigation. Basically, I'd love to know how many dimensions of chess LE was playing. But guessing we'll never know...

[Edited to add the Elantra bit]

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

By all indicators he had been preparing for that moment for years.

What? By merely speculation you mean.

 

[Ed Teach]

IMO the connection between KG and BK is going to be because he ate at her place of employment all the time. I sure hope so because I bet they'll have it on camera maybe. I would imagine he could glean mucho information about all of them from being a regular customer. Maybe he talked about veganism with them. What did the girls order from the grub truck that night? Pasta?

 

[General wooster]

Does anyone else think he will give a full confession next week once he is presented with the evidence that will prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt? He will be spared the death penalty and avoid dragging his parents through a long drawn out trial that will be painful and embarrassing. I think he will be rather proud to tell his story before America although he will avoid revealing the more painful and ego-bruising aspects he's been suppressing his whole life. I think he will plead guilty and spend the rest of his days working on his memoirs that no one will read or be interested in.

I agree that the full confession is a strong possibility since, in his mind, he may believe that this will avoid execution and a lifetime, if even in prison, of notorious remembrance. However, I believe that there is a delicious attraction to a trial for him. Showtime! His intelligence on display. Plus, the opportunity to continue torturing others - family, friends, the social group of the victims. Phase II of his continuing compulsion to do damage.

 

[everybodhi]

bbm
???
The video in the link ?
The public defender bit ?
I'm somewhat surprised his parents or the rest of his family haven't hired him a high profile defender.
Jmo.

Well from the title to the link I expected more than confirmation that he is indeed, Bryan Kohberger.

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1609265428320378880

 

[YankeeTrucker]

Just out of curiosity……

Does anyone else think it’s highly likely that one of the other criminology PHD students (only 8 miles and 10-15 minute drive from the murders)…. Could have been who initially tipped off LE to BK as possible suspect?

I’ve thought a lot about this. PHD candidates aren’t a massive group on campus, regardless of field. The criminal justice candidates would be familiar with each other, even after one semester. They’d have similar schedules and likely cross paths walking in and out of the same buildings. Someone in his peer group knew he drove a white Elantra. Everyone within 100 miles driving one should have expected to be interviewed. Given the steady drip of comments regarding his behavior, I’d be stunned if LE had NOT been contacted by someone in his PHD circle. Would be interesting to know exactly if and when the alleged class discussion regarding the murders took place… did LE already have an eye on him? Could they have recordings? Interested to know how much the university knew/when they knew it and if there was any cooperation on their part.

 

[eloquence]

I don’t understand the attorneys point when he refers to where BK was that night since they likely have data showing the border of Idaho/Washington. What does that mean and why would he say this in an interview with a reporter? Why would he even ask that Q? He won’t be defending BK in a murder trial. Confused.

My understanding is the only extradition issue is whether he is, in fact, the individual named in the fugitive warrant.

That's half of the issue, per CNN: "He said all the Commonwealth needs to prove is that his client resembles or is the person on the arrest warrant and that he was in the area at the time of the crime."

Even if BK left his phone behind, IMO LE can prove he was in the area at the time fairly easily (things like cameras showing him going to class, credit card receipts in the area, phone location data from normal activity in Pullman a short distance away, perhaps data from the car's internal computer regarding location)

 

[10ofRods]

Crime Classification Manual

Amazon.com

Forensic Psychiatry Taxonmy in a Special Section of the DSM V

Introduction to the Special Section on DSM-5 and Forensic Psychiatry

The American Psychiatric Association's (APA) 2013 publication of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5),[1][1] marks the first substantial revision of the psychiatric diagnostic classification system since the publication of DSM-III in 1980.[2][2] In recent

jaapl.org

I've been trying to follow the work some of the task force members mentioned in the special section. It's an interesting debate. The forensic psychiatrists worry that some changes will cause them to have to give a different account of a suspect's mental health (perhaps leaning more toward saying they're mentally ill, which can in some cases affect the plea/insanity plea process). There are some academic papers in this debate, with most forensic psychiatrists not wishing to allow certain types of suspects to be reclassified as "insane."

Dr. Levin's work is exceedingly interesting, if anyone wants a rabbit hole (you can find it on scholar.google.com). I hadn't seen his paper on eating disorders, but it's very interesting.

Also, one can see in the work of the doctors and lawyers mentioned in that supplement to DSM what real academic research looks like. BK's work (that we've seen) is sophomore level undergrad, IMO. Maybe senior paper level at some colleges.

 

[schooling]

I was in the last thread talking about how his older Hyundai provided him an advantage when it came to GPS tracking.

And then after I saw a certain something I started to think about other types of communication data that's available to be scrutinized. So let's talk about Bluetooth ....

His outdated Bluetooth stack (non upgradeable hardware) in his older car has a gigantic privacy hole.

As always skip down to the TLDR if you want.

Some devices have Bluetooth in a constant state of polling. Where a Bluetooth signal is sent out (ping) to poll for other Bluetooth devices out there. This happens even in devices with a specific "pairing mode". Battery powered devices are sometimes more conservative with this polling than others. This is why people tell you to turn off your Bluetooth if your battery is dying. To stop this polling. All devices that poll have an address that identifies them known as a Bluetooth MAC address (similar to the MAC address on LAN/WIFI network devices). This address makes it super easy the next time you want to pair to a device that you frequently pair with.

Whether you're aware of it or not your bluetooth enabled device is basically saying..."HEY, I'm [insert Bluetooth MAC ADDRESS HERE], could all the other available Bluetooth devices within my range please say hi back? And when other Bluetooth devices that are also in pairing mode (some in a constant state unless bluetooth is explicitly turned off) receive the message and respond with "HEY, Bluetooth device here [MAC ADDRESS], I might be interested". The devices would then be paired via a security code unless it was already trusted. Devices that are already trusted usually appear in your "Recent Devices" list and are listed there for quick connections.

So even if you're not intending to connect with your neighbors Bluetooth keyboard and mouse via your car. And never do. And even if your car is not even capable of supporting them....it's likely that your car has still said hello and identified itself to them few times.

So this is where things get interesting...

Gigantic department stores used to (and probably still do) stick Bluetooth beacons all over their store in a grid. The sole purpose of these bluetooth beacons were to entice your phone into saying hi (unbeknownst to you), and capturing your phones unique Bluetooth MAC address. And then use your phones unique Bluetooth MAC address to trace your movements through their store. How long did you stay in one location? Did you take a left or a right at cosmetics? And they would use this information to inform layout and signage. They'd also use this to track your loyalty. When are you coming back? How frequently? Is marketing changing your behavior? What type of sales get you back in the doors?

All of this via the device in your pocket, and you had no clue. If you had bluetooth turned on.

So when it came time to draft the newest Bluetooth Low Energy standard/protocol that would go into Bluetooth 4.0 one of the main problems the drafters set out to solve is the one in regards to privacy. And they did this by forcing adopters of the standard to randomize your MAC Address every 15 minutes.

This makes it much more difficult for stores to keep track of who you are. As your address eventually changes and the beacons see you as a completely new and different person.

If BK had his car's bluetooth turned on or had any bluetooth enabled devices on him, in his car, or in his trunk then it was likely polling for other devices. And any device manufactured prior to 2017-2018 (wide adoption of BLE in mostly smart phones and $100k+ cars, with mass implementation around 2019) would have the same exact Bluetooth MAC address it did today....as it did on the night of the murders. Making it easily identifiable. With spoofing (another topic) on anything but a computer being EXTREMELY difficult (likely his only defense if the device has timestamps).

Not all devices are going to maintain a historic log of other devices that have said hi. Some will have nothing, some will have just mac addresses, others will have addresses and time stamps. Keep in mind that this is a lot different than your "Recently Paired" list. As it's just 'hi'. There was no handshake/agreement to connect. But Some devices will have that information, whether purposely for faster future recognition and connections or because it's in memory and hasn't been cycled out yet to make room for more. Making them accessible via forensic methods.

My point is that no matter where BK parked there are Bluetooth devices listening and saying hi. And if LE has access to those devices they can pull MAC Addresses. And if BK had any older non Bluetooth Low Energy devices on him there's a small chance they can connect him to the crime via a method he's likely never ever ever ever heard about in any academic setting or random Google'ing.

tldr: the same since upgraded (in newer devices) bluetooth exploit department stores use to track you, could track bk

 

[Cool Cats]

Idaho murder suspect Kohberger's Pennsylvania classmates say he was 'bright,' awkward, bullied in school

Idaho murder suspect Kohberger's Pennsylvania classmates say he was 'bright,' awkward, bullied in school

A friend of the suspect arrested in connection with the Idaho quadruple murder told Fox News Digital that the Bryan Christopher Kohlberger she knew was a genius who was interested in what makes "humans tick" but had trouble relating to other peers.

www.yahoo.com

ALBRIGHTSVILLE, Pennsylvania – Former Pennsylvania classmates of Idaho murder suspect Bryan Christopher Kohberger said he was an intellectual who "was very interested in the way the mind works" but bullied for his weight and socially awkwardness.

In his home state, he was known as a genius who was socially awkward and had a tough time picking up on social cues, a couple of his former classmates told Fox News Digital.

Sarah Healey, who went to Pleasant Valley High School with Kohberger, said he was shy and kept to himself and a small group of friends, but some of their classmates – especially girls – mocked Kohberger and threw things at him.

"It was bad," Healey said. "There was definitely something off about him, like we couldn't tell exactly what it was. I remember one time when I was walking in the hallway, and he stopped me and was like, ‘Do you want to hang out?’"

"It was just weird," she said. "But Bryan was bullied a lot, and I never got a chance to say something to defend him, because he would always run away."

Healey said she heard other girls tell Kohberger in their high school to "go away, creep" or "I don't want to hang out with you."

"I honestly think that's what led up to this, because he didn't get the proper help, and it was mainly females that bullied him," Healey said.

Despite the bullying, she said Kohberger's grades were always good, and he "was very into his books."

That continued at Pennsylvania's Northampton Community College, according to one of Kohberger's friends, who requested to remain anonymous because of her job.

"He's really, really intelligent. A bright kid . . . someone who stood out even in honors and high-level classes," his NCC friend said.

 

[Alethea]

I don’t understand the attorneys point when he refers to where BK was that night since they likely have data showing the border of Idaho/Washington. What does that mean and why would he say this in an interview with a reporter? Why would he even ask that Q? He won’t be defending BK in a murder trial. Confused.

My understanding is the only extradition issue is whether he is, in fact, the individual named in the fugitive warrant.

I think he was trying to say that BK lived in Pullman so the state could "prove" he was "in the area" of the crime even if he was sitting home in his house while someone else was the actual murderer.

For something like extradition, you'd have to prove you were not the actual person named in the arrest warrant. Say someone else named Alethea was suspected of committing a crime but they arrested me instead. My defense would be I am not that person named in the indictment - my birthday is different, my SSN is different, by DNA I can prove I have different parents. I would fight extradition because I have nothing to do with their case! Here, BK is not arguing that. He admits he's that person they are accusing but he is not admitting he actually did what they are alleging.