ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 20

[Kittycat40]

Let's say there was indeed one target -- the other "half" of the couples (the Bff's; the bf/gf), that is, the one not targeted, would quite probably know the killer of their best friend, or their lover, just based on proximity of interests.

Oh okay thanks for clarifying

 

[kittythehare]

Reading the debate re whether they should or not speak to media.
I,ve watched all their interviews , apart from detail that 2 victims were sharing a bed, I don,t think anything they have said or done is out of line or even close to compromising an interrogation or arrest.

We have no idea of the nature of the injuries the victims experienced, only that they were inflicted by knife.
Their families likely do.
That is information they have refrained from sharing, respect to them for that.

I suspect that crime scene/s was nightmarish.
It's about humanity and the lack thereof.

Those families have all got their own unique ways of processing this horror story which is just 21 days old.

It's not for me to judge, respect means respecting others' unique individual process.
I don't envy them their journey in the years ahead.

People are fragile, people can break, families can be torn apart from far less serious incidents.

I hope they survive.

I fully support LE keeping quiet and I get annoyed when the internet gets all 'entitled'! HELLO? Are you even old enough to be on social media, you sound like about 5 years old.. etc etc

It's none of our business.

Back to my own self indulgent speculating that I think this was a stranger/s, male/s or female/s and the target was university students in general.
By now I think it's likely that almost everyone in their environment, outside of their close circles, has been looked at closely with a view to having proficient knife skills or otherwise.

I also imagine perp or perps has an online presence that will cause alarm in retrospect.
Don't they all?

 

[drmrgrl]

I think he was referencing the steps police have to take to give him information. Like, ‘stop wasting our time by going through your steps and just give us anything g you can pertaining to the investigation.

MOO

ETA: right after he mentioned the steps, he said someone needed to step up.

I think SG is sleep deprived and fearful and maybe his words are not coming out right-who can blame him? Poor guy.

 

[Zinn]

So LE should sabotage their investigation to make people happy?

Perhaps there’s a middle ground to be considered.

I was initially drawn to this case because I found the lack of official communication astonishing. This delay in communication was even acknowledged at the first press conference. Based on comments from some family members, I’d guess this unusual deficit in communication extended to family members of victims.

I agree it’s important to protect the investigation, but I also think a balance can be struck between too little and too much information. For instance, there has been a heavy emphasis on why it is believed by investigators that this crime was targeted and whether that influences ongoing risk. It’s natural to want to know this, especially when you have hundreds or thousands of students in the area who could vacate if an ongoing threat exists.

 

[drmrgrl]

I know nothing about the Mad Greek…


When K&M were released, I imagine if he wanted to see his daughter and ask questions of whoever handles those arrangements, or wanted a second autopsy, he could have done that. He would know. I imagine the person who handled K’s arrangements did M’s as well. And he paid for his daughter’s arrangements.

Could SG have paid for two autopsies-one for K and one for M and that’s how he knows their means of death are different and he is upset because LE could have just told him that straight out from the beginning, without the loss of time and money?

 

[SouthAussie]

That does not follow at all. People grieve in very different ways.

Yes ... and we all move through the 5 stages of grief at a different pace also.
I think this dad (SG) may be in stage #2, maybe approaching stage #3. He will move through the stages at his own pace.

denial - anger - bargaining - depression - acceptance

imo

 

[Honest Abraham]

* In the middle of typing this, I just decided to transcribe the part about “the steps” spoken by SG on the show, so, the exact exchange can be found below. I summarized and quoted some of the interview before they all began talking specifically about that to also give complete context.

(Sorry to quote myself but I just watched the beginning of the interview and now I’m absolutely certain within context, IMO,
SG was talking about the frustration by the lack of communication with him and LE.)

LJ also begins the show on site outside of the Idaho PD, with Kaylee’s parents with him. He asks them about their mounting frustration with LE, and they say they have no doubt LE is doing their best, but, basically feel like they are Kaylee and Maddie’s advocates and alludes to the reasons for no “Wanted” posters because that would discourage prospective students coming for “Rush” to want to stay while (there is an unknown attacker on the loose).

SG says, “It seems like they are suppressing the story, we want to put rewards out and they’re like don’t do that. I get it, your town doesn’t want to have Reward posters posted all over when you come and you do your Rush. You’re not gonna get a lot of students if you see those things. But, this community is not going to heal until this guy is pulled off the streets... He has to be off the streets.”

SG says that LE have put people, “like lawyers that make things happen and they don’t want to say anything because they don’t have the guts to come up and be like alpha and like leaders and say, ‘Hey, we might say something that’s wrong, but we’re going to take that hit.’”

*SG does refer to someone as “He” as he does later on when talking about going up the steps during the quoted part below.

SG says he can’t speak on the other families’ behalf, but, he wants to not be a “glory hound” but to keep the media spotlight on the murders and he taught his kids not to be victims, but to go get things done if they need doing, basically. *IMO he almost openly alludes the deaths and the publication of them are not good for the city as a whole and he implies that’s maybe some of the reason maybe police aren’t talking more [because it hurts the town and the reputation of the college].

LJ tees up the next question (*This is the transcribed direct exchange):

LJ: “I had the opportunity to speak with some of my sources and I have been told there are differences in the way that the victims were killed. Some were more severe than the ‘other’. And this week, we heard ‘the target attack’ walk-back, and reverse it back to being a target attack — what can you tell us about the targeted attack”?

Mom of Kaylee: “Umm, they have told us it that was targeted, and but they told us they can’t tell who. We asked specifically. And they said, ‘We’ll try to get that information to you’ and they got back to us a day or so later and said, ‘We’re sorry, we can’t give you that information’ but, then a day later, we saw on the news that it was not targeted, or they think the whole house was targeted.”

SG: “I’ll cut to the chase, their means of death don’t match.”

LJ: “Maddie’s and Kaylee’s… Cause of death, it does not match based on the autopsy report?”

SG: “They don’t match.”

LJ: “It would indicate one of them may have been targeted?”

SG: “He doesn’t have to go up the steps! Let’s stop playing games! Guys! I need somebody to step up and be an alpha, be somebody to be a leader! Don’t make me do it! I don’t wanna do it! He doesn’t have to go up those steps. They’re mad. Their, their points of damage don’t match. I’m just gonna say it... Wasn’t leaked to me, I earned that. I payed for that funeral. I paid for that. It’s my right! You ain’t takin’ that from me!

Mom: “Calm down.”

SG: “If you don’t wanna say nothing, that’s your bed... But don’t say I’m leakin’ anything, I paid that bill! I sent my daughter to college to get an education, she came back in a box, and I can speak on that.”

***They then begin discussing the 911 call and Kaylee’s parents don’t know about that. They’re concerned that it’s three weeks out and they don’t want it to go cold. They’re talking about raising money for a reward and hire a third party PI.

They ask for forgiveness from LE if the case is not going cold. They talk about Familial DNA, IT, etc…

LJ promises them he won’t go anywhere.

**Edited for clarity

* In the middle of typing this, I just decided to transcribe the part about “the steps” spoken by SG on the show, so, the exact exchange can be found below. I summarized and quoted some of the interview before they all began talking specifically about that to also give complete context.

(Sorry to quote myself but I just watched the beginning of the interview and now I’m absolutely certain within context, IMO,
SG was talking about the frustration by the lack of communication with him and LE.)

LJ also begins the show on site outside of the Idaho PD, with Kaylee’s parents with him. He asks them about their mounting frustration with LE, and they say they have no doubt LE is doing their best, but, basically feel like they are Kaylee and Maddie’s advocates and alludes to the reasons for no “Wanted” posters because that would discourage prospective students coming for “Rush” to want to stay while (there is an unknown attacker on the loose).

SG says, “It seems like they are suppressing the story, we want to put rewards out and they’re like don’t do that. I get it, your town doesn’t want to have Reward posters posted all over when you come and you do your Rush. You’re not gonna get a lot of students if you see those things. But, this community is not going to heal until this guy is pulled off the streets... He has to be off the streets.”

SG says that LE have put people, “like lawyers that make things happen and they don’t want to say anything because they don’t have the guts to come up and be like alpha and like leaders and say, ‘Hey, we might say something that’s wrong, but we’re going to take that hit.’”

*SG does refer to someone as “He” as he does later on when talking about going up the steps during the quoted part below.

SG says he can’t speak on the other families’ behalf, but, he wants to not be a “glory hound” but to keep the media spotlight on the murders and he taught his kids not to be victims, but to go get things done if they need doing, basically. *IMO he almost openly alludes the deaths and the publication of them are not good for the city as a whole and he implies that’s maybe some of the reason maybe police aren’t talking more [because it hurts the town and the reputation of the college].

LJ tees up the next question (*This is the transcribed direct exchange):

LJ: “I had the opportunity to speak with some of my sources and I have been told there are differences in the way that the victims were killed. Some were more severe than the ‘other’. And this week, we heard ‘the target attack’ walk-back, and reverse it back to being a target attack — what can you tell us about the targeted attack”?

Mom of Kaylee: “Umm, they have told us it that was targeted, and but they told us they can’t tell who. We asked specifically. And they said, ‘We’ll try to get that information to you’ and they got back to us a day or so later and said, ‘We’re sorry, we can’t give you that information’ but, then a day later, we saw on the news that it was not targeted, or they think the whole house was targeted.”

SG: “I’ll cut to the chase, their means of death don’t match.”

LJ: “Maddie’s and Kaylee’s… Cause of death, it does not match based on the autopsy report?”

SG: “They don’t match.”

LJ: “It would indicate one of them may have been targeted?”

SG: “He doesn’t have to go up the steps! Let’s stop playing games! Guys! I need somebody to step up and be an alpha, be somebody to be a leader! Don’t make me do it! I don’t wanna do it! He doesn’t have to go up those steps. They’re mad. Their, their points of damage don’t match. I’m just gonna say it... Wasn’t leaked to me, I earned that. I payed for that funeral. I paid for that. It’s my right! You ain’t takin’ that from me!

Mom: “Calm down.”

SG: “If you don’t wanna say nothing, that’s your bed... But don’t say I’m leakin’ anything, I paid that bill! I sent my daughter to college to get an education, she came back in a box, and I can speak on that.”

***They then begin discussing the 911 call and Kaylee’s parents don’t know about that. They’re concerned that it’s three weeks out and they don’t want it to go cold. They’re talking about raising money for a reward and hire a third party PI.

They ask for forgiveness from LE if the case is not going cold. They talk about Familial DNA, IT, etc…

LJ promises them he won’t go anywhere.

**Edited for clarity

Institutional and agency self preservation as a whole or by individual means will always and I mean always come before the need to solve a case. These folks are not more intelligent than us. They just control the information. He wants the local chief to step up to the Mayor and garner the public help to solve this. But that is bad publicity. next thing you know SG will be threatened or arrested for interfering with a police investigation.

 

[citigirl]

I have a keypad entry system on my front door and it will still work if the power is out. I wonder what kind they had on their house?

Mine does also. I put batteries in it.

 

[SuziQ]

I would be too busy with my flamethrower to talk to LE.

My opinion.

And I am afraid that is exactly what is happening here. Imo.

 

[Honest Abraham]

MOO I doubt any of these witnesses have forensics training or examined the bodies to see where the wounds were. If the victims were clothed, had blankets, or were covered with blood, the wounds probably were not all visible. Stabbed in the chest through clothing would not necessarily show the wounds.
I doubt the witnesses could tell you how each victim was stabbed and where, with any accuracy. I'll also bet you could ask each one to diagram the scenes and the bodies and there would be a lot of discrepancies. That is just the way human memory is.
If these witnesses tell what they think they saw, it will just add to the confusion/misinformation. Which of course, won't matter because they do not know the facts of the autopsies and forensic details of the crime scenes. MOO

it does not have to be that subtle or complicated. one could be decapitated! I can’t even think of this anymore.

 

[SuziQ]

Im not sure but I do feel that the perp had been in the house before

I think this is possible. I am open to every theory at this point and nothing would surprise me. I have been unable to hone in on a victimology or perpetrator at this point. Imo.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Little rumor, big rumor .. doesn't matter. A rumor is a rumor. Don't bring them to Websleuths.

Also, at Websleuths every family member, every parent, friend, etc. is considered a victim unless they are an officially named POI or suspect. If parents don't go public and give interviews, people think that's not right. If they give interviews, people think that's not right. You aren't in their shoes ... lay off the criticism of how those innocent people may or may not be reacting during their time of grief.

And, it's been said many, many times, stop the generalized LE bashing.

Thousands of members every day have no problem posting in accordance with our rules and policies. Please post responsibly and respectfully.

Thank you.

 

[drmrgrl]

If it has zero validity and isn''t evidence, then they should be able to talk to whomever the hell they want and say whatever the hell they want and whenever the hell they want, and not be continually admonished by officials who have given them 3 weeks of exactly zilch.

My opinion.

It does hold validity. I think LE could possibly release more info so as to catch the killer SOONER, but are not doing so to uphold the integrity of the investigation, but it frustrates people who want this guy caught asap

 

[uburoi1]

And I am afraid that is exactly what is happening here. Imo.

Yes. It's why the role of victim advocate can be so important, not only for the victim but for LE.

 

[SuziQ]

Perhaps there’s a middle ground to be considered.

I was initially drawn to this case because I found the lack of official communication astonishing. This delay in communication was even acknowledged at the first press conference. Based on comments from some family members, I’d guess this unusual deficit in communication extended to family members of victims.

I agree it’s important to protect the investigation, but I also think a balance can be struck between too little and too much information. For instance, there has been a heavy emphasis on why it is believed by investigators that this crime was targeted and whether that influences ongoing risk. It’s natural to want to know this, especially when you have hundreds or thousands of students in the area who could vacate if an ongoing threat exists.

I definitely think there could be better communication between the two. Obviously SG is eager to learn about the horrific true crime lifestyle he has been thrown into. My god, how awful. A good FBI agent could easily sit with him and give him a quick course on investigation 101. And maybe include him in some way that would be helpful, to him anyways. I just want to give him the biggest hug and take his hand to teach. And that's what LE should be doing. Imo.

 

[drmrgrl]

Sigh...This was 5 days ago. Watch what she said immediately before she launched into her nonsense. "They've got to go through all that blood, all that hair, all those fingerprints to determine if any of it was left by the killer." Clearly she does not know anything about the state of the investigation. I expect this folly to keep popping up, though.

ETA: Replied to wrong poster

gotta love Nancy …lol

 

[MsBetsy]

I think SG is sleep deprived and fearful and maybe his words are not coming out right-who can blame him? Poor guy.

I hope they have some good Crisis Counselors available to them. I don't know how the families can make it through each day. The whole community is probably fearful. I know I would be if it had happened near me.

 

[Aquarian]

Hmmm, yea this is twice this evening they were there. I dont think it’s casual. The one detective in the window looked intense whatever his task.
Someone posted the pics several times back a few pages. It gives me hope they are feeling the mode…..

 

[The Observer]

Le may not want to give them specific info on the crime scene or investigation but at least give them a daily summation of some kind.”we spent x amount of hours going through video. We sent investigators to talk to professors.” Something of that nature.

To keep them totally in the dark is just cold.

I honestly don't believe that would make a difference at this point. They're grieving, angry and sleep deprived, and I don't think it'll be enough to reassure them now. IMO it would be a "Why arent you looking at *this* or *that* instead" scenario.

I think even if LE gave them peoples alibis at this point they'd then seek to poke holes in them. They are taking in rumours and online speculation 24/7, to their own detriment. They're understandably desperate for answers to 'why' for a senseless crime.

IMO.

 

[drmrgrl]

May be a distinction with no difference, but SG says “steps” and not “stairs”. To me, steps means 2-4 steps, not stairs to another floor. Perhaps a regional thing. MOO. that part starts around 2:50.

Kaylee Goncalves' parents hunt for answers 3 weeks after college student slayings | Fox News Video

Steve and Kristi Goncalves speak with Fox News' Lawrence Jones to discuss the ongoing investigation from Moscow, Idaho.

www.foxnews.com

I think the Goncalves family suspect that the killer is a male.IMO