ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 20

[Curiosa20]

I’m sorry, I’ve missed something.
When did LE ask him not to talk?
It doesn’t sound to me that he has heard much more than we have.

 

[Curiosa20]

Xana’s mom said in a recent interview that she feels one of the victims or all the victims was close to the killer and knew them.

Do you feel these murder victims truly knew the Killer or killers?

Oh! Can you please link that interview?

 

[Elley Mae]

"I'll cut to the chase – their means of death don't match." Kaylee's father, Steven Goncalves, told "Lawrence Jones Cross Country" on Saturday evening.

When Jones asked if Goncalves was specifically discussing the deaths of his daughter and Mogen, Goncalves repeated: "They don't match."

"Their points of damage don't match," he continued. "I'm just going to say it. It wasn't leaked to me. I earned that. I paid for that funeral. … I sent my daughter to college. She came back in a box, and I can speak on that."

Idaho murders: Kaylee Goncalves' parents say victims' 'means of death don't match'

Steven Goncalves, father of deceased University of Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves, told Fox News on Saturday that Kaylee's and Madison Mogen's 'means of death don't match.'

www.foxnews.com

…

Sounds like he is saying it’s two suspects.

Jmo

 

[AngTxGal]

good idea but.....
will the university pass any rosters to LE?
(Does the university even take rosters?)

Just asking, because this link came up on the last thread but didn't get a lot of attention

Link: 'the school has "specific privacy concerns.'

Link doesn't answer the questions I just asked but is related to the topic of which university rules mean that they cannot pass personal info on their students.
Does anybody know which rule or privacy law this might be?

Idaho murders: University not formally tracking which students are not returning to campus

Idaho State Police spokesperson Aaron Snell says the University of Idaho has "specific privacy concerns" regarding information of students not returning to campus.

www.yahoo.com

The University must legally keep student records private. The school cannot decide to be cooperative and give up those records to LE.
It takes a warrant signed by a judge to get records obtained from the school.

Would a judge sign a search warrant to reveal personal info on students to LE because LE thinks those that stay home could be suspects?
No, I do not believe a judge would sign such a warrant.

The possible info gained must be weighed against the consequences.
The expectation of privacy between a student and university is Huge.
Student records contain: legal names, birth dates, home address, social security numbers, credit card info, grade transcripts, vaccination records, family tax info for financial aid.

Why would student records have less an expectation of privacy than anyone’s health records, or employment records?

Is there any logical reason we could conclude those students that stayed home would be more likely to be a suspect? No.
Is there any evidence the perp is even a student? Not that we know.
Do I think LE is trying to get these records? No. My guess is the profs are not distinguishing between those on campus and those at home. So, there are not records.

JMO

 

[Helechawagirl]

If the University is concerned about its image, then the appearance of the President at the news conference was a major PR blunder.

Without him, it was 4 people who happened to be students. With him, it gave a visual image of “Students at IU as victims.”

He had no helpful role to perform in the news conference. It was what we, in the bs., call a “dog and pony show.” He was there to throw his weight around.

These types rarely listen to their communication experts. We have the one job that everybody thinks they know how to do better. (Rant over. UI should stop worrying about image and interfering in the investigation. Prob why DA and others spoke out—and UI pressured them to walk back. My opinions—subject to change at any time.)

 

[alaskanblue]

I am wondering if the police on the first night followed any footsteps? How could someone kill 4 people with a huge hunting knife and and not have a considerable amount of blood on themself. And could they have changed their clothes in the house and or showered? I havent heard anything about checknig drains for blood. And if they changed their clothes did police go thru the garbage cans and dumpstsers to see if there were any blood clothes in them? It just doesnst seem like they were very proactive in the beginning. And I hope they havent ruled out that the person who commited this crime could be involved in law enforcement. I have watched enough ID shows to know this does happen and should be overlooked. And how do we know there wasnt another person? Not for certain but its only been revealed there was 1 weapon the knife and I believe they can tell if the knife wounds are consistent by depth, angle, which hand etc.to know it was done by 1 person.

I think either the killer came prepared with a bag of clothes to change into and/or showered. If the police did find traces of blood or footprints they haven't mentioned as far as I know. They did take away all of the contents of a couple dumpsters for examination. Good question about checking the drains for blood, that is done quite often and has yielded important case solving dna in other cases. Don't know if the Moscow Police did so though. God forbid if who committed the murders was a member of LE--that'd be the most horrible worst case scenario IMO! Let's hope that isn't the case.

 

[cottonweaver]

We were all super confused earlier, so that’s why I transcribed it. Here’s the full video

*He’s criticizing LE decisions and seeming misstatements in his opinion.

Kaylee Goncalves' parents hunt for answers 3 weeks after college student slayings | Fox News Video

Steve and Kristi Goncalves speak with Fox News' Lawrence Jones to discuss the ongoing investigation from Moscow, Idaho.

www.foxnews.com

yes adding a lot off confusion ( I'd missed about 20 pages of the thread, so thanks for the link & transcript'

eg another addition to confusion
Fox's Lawrence Jones - the cause of deaths don't match? ( K & M's)
SG - yes, the * means* of death don't match

these are different things:
manner of death
cause of death

& remember that profiling of a crime scene ( more attacks on one victim, in different places on their body) doesn't 100% mean that the perp came to the scene with that victim as their top priority. ( During the crime, things may happen which mean that one victim receives more or worse treatment)

anyway, poor guy obviously believes his daughter was targeted, so definitely an expert could help him with that general info ( It can't be LE obviously)
IDK - she may well have been targeted but notion that she was might be really adding to his distress & anger

 

[Helechawagirl]

"I'll cut to the chase – their means of death don't match." Kaylee's father, Steven Goncalves, told "Lawrence Jones Cross Country" on Saturday evening.

When Jones asked if Goncalves was specifically discussing the deaths of his daughter and Mogen, Goncalves repeated: "They don't match."

"Their points of damage don't match," he continued. "I'm just going to say it. It wasn't leaked to me. I earned that. I paid for that funeral. … I sent my daughter to college. She came back in a box, and I can speak on that."

Idaho murders: Kaylee Goncalves' parents say victims' 'means of death don't match'

Steven Goncalves, father of deceased University of Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves, told Fox News on Saturday that Kaylee's and Madison Mogen's 'means of death don't match.'

www.foxnews.com

…

Sounds like he is saying it’s two suspects.

Jmo

I’m not sure what he is trying to say. Odd wording. “Means” to me says “method” but that would take me down a whole new path…coupled with “he didn’t have to go upstairs” Maybe because the object of his attack was on the middle floor? I’m clueless. JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

The University must legally keep student records private. The school cannot decide to be cooperative and give up those records to LE.
It takes a warrant signed by a judge to get records obtained from the school.

Would a judge sign a search warrant to reveal personal info on students to LE because LE thinks those that stay home could be suspects?
No, I do not believe a judge would sign such a warrant.

The possible info gained must be weighed against the consequences.
The expectation of privacy between a student and university is Huge.
Student records contain: legal names, birth dates, home address, social security numbers, credit card info, grade transcripts, vaccination records, family tax info for financial aid.

Why would student records have less an expectation of privacy than anyone’s health records, or employment records?

Is there any logical reason we could conclude those students that stayed home would be more likely to be a suspect? No.
Is there any evidence the perp is even a student? Not that we know.

JMO

thanks very much.

so going back to the original post about ' rosters' of classes ( rather than the link about mass sharing of names of absent students)

scenario
Do you think that , for example, if during the course of the investigation, LE are told by students that there's ' a guy called Josh, but I don't know his last name but in one of the lectures there was trouble between him and a victim etc etc ...' that LE wouldn't be able to get a judge to sign a warrant to get the university to disclose Josh's surname, after other LE searches for that surname had come up dry?

edited to add

to be clear - the scenario. the purpose for the warrant ( judge) is just asking for disclosure of a surname so that LE can go track down & interview Josh

 

[The Observer]

good idea but.....
will the university pass any rosters to LE?
(Does the university even take rosters?)

Just asking, because this link came up on the last thread but didn't get a lot of attention

Link: 'the school has "specific privacy concerns.'

Link doesn't answer the questions I just asked but is related to the topic of which university rules mean that they cannot pass personal info on their students.
Does anybody know which rule or privacy law this might be?

Idaho murders: University not formally tracking which students are not returning to campus

Idaho State Police spokesperson Aaron Snell says the University of Idaho has "specific privacy concerns" regarding information of students not returning to campus.

www.yahoo.com

The university stated they would not share that info with LE

 

[AngTxGal]

thanks very much.

so going back to the original post about ' rosters' of classes ( rather than the link about mass sharing of names of absent students)

scenario
Do you think that , for example, if during the course of the investigation, LE are told by students that there's ' a guy called Josh, but I don't know his last name but in one of the lectures there was trouble between him and a victim etc etc ...' that LE wouldn't be able to get a judge to sign a warrant to get the university to disclose Josh's surname, after other LE searches for that surname had come up dry?

There are ways to get that info without involving the university or needing a warrant.

Go to the class, if they call roll then listen for the name Josh and watch who answers.
Ask students leaving if there is a Josh in class.
If they point to someone, ask if they can speak to him.

If Josh suddenly runs when he sees a uniformed officer- that speaks volumes.

If LE has a presence on campus it would not be odd. No one would assume this or that if they are talking to a lot oF students every day.
If LE has no presence on campus and one shows up to a class out of the blue, then it looks very bad.

Stalkers on Campus
I taught at the university level for over 20 years
I had a female student tell me a male student was coming to class and sitting in the back waiting for her and following her to her classes. He was not in my class. I asked a male student who was her friend to walk her to the security phone outside the building. He did. Both of us called PD. The guy was not a university student.
JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

The university stated they would not share that info with LE

agreed, that's why I linked to the article saying that the Univ said they would not.

see related scenario on follow-up post ( page 39 of this thread)

 

[uburoi1]

good idea but.....
will the university pass any rosters to LE?
(Does the university even take rosters?)

Just asking, because this link came up on the last thread but didn't get a lot of attention

Link: 'the school has "specific privacy concerns.'

Link doesn't answer the questions I just asked but is related to the topic of which university rules mean that they cannot pass personal info on their students.
Does anybody know which rule or privacy law this might be?

Idaho murders: University not formally tracking which students are not returning to campus

Idaho State Police spokesperson Aaron Snell says the University of Idaho has "specific privacy concerns" regarding information of students not returning to campus.

www.yahoo.com

Good point. Yes, the uni has rosters but subpoenas might need to be issued for LE to access them -- I expect this would fall under some aspect of FERPA though I am not certain.

 

[Tex9]

This case has rattled me, and I live nowhere near Idaho. So incredibly sad, and my heart goes out to the families and the poor victims.

This is my opinion only.

I’m looking at this through the lens of “most likely/most logical” (at least in my opinion).

Based on the manner of death and the fact the perp navigated the house in the middle of the night, while several people were inside, most likely the perp knew the house and knew the victims.

If the perp drove (or walked or biked) to the house from a significant distance away, most likely they were caught on camera somewhere coming and/or going around 3am-4am (around whenever the crime occurred). If this is the case, LE has video(s) from homes/businesses with at least a vehicle of interest (and maybe more specific info than that).

If LE does not have the video described above, most likely the perp lives very close to the crime scene, close enough to elude cameras from homes/businesses while traveling to and from the crime scene.

If they have video with at least a vehicle of interest, most likely they are honing in on a POI by now. They likely are watching someone and waiting to connect the dots with the forensic analysis results that are starting to come in. With likely so much DNA to process, that connecting of the dots may not happen in the “first batch“ of results. But it will come.

If they don’t have video, then most likely the perp lives nearby and LE is methodically checking alibis/injuries/behavior/etc in close proximity to the crime scene and tightening the perimeter of where the perp may reside. I think LE most likely has a POI and is awaiting the forensic analysis results to come in. With likely so much DNA to process, connecting of the dots may not happen in the “first batch“ of results. But it will come.

This is only my opinion.

Of course it could be neither scenario. Maybe it was a stranger who is now long gone. Or some other scenario. But I think most likely, the scenarios I posted make the most sense.

Some other thoughts:

I can’t imagine how much DNA and other evidence LE has to process. I think that’s a big reason we are now a few weeks in with no arrest.

I also think LE has a good idea who did this, are watching them, and just waiting to make the connection forensically before making an arrest. I think we’ll have an arrest soon.

Summary of who I think did this:

Someone who knew the house
Someone who knew the victims
A male
Someone who is experienced with large knives
Someone who recently felt slighted by at least one of the victims (no fault of the victim(s), but the perp felt slighted for whatever reason).

I think the surviving roomates and other close friends and siblings would likely know someone who checks all of those boxes.

This is all my opinion only, and I’m sure this has all been discussed at length previously. But writing out my thoughts really makes me feel like LE is close to making arrest. I sure hope so.

God bless the families and those poor kids.

 

[Finders_Keepers]

I have a feeling they are closing in.

The comments from the DA the other day saying he wouldn’t be concerned about sending his child on campus but appreciates why other families who don’t know what he knows are….

The comments from KG’s father and the ongoing belief the attack was targeted.

All points to someone local, whether the victims knew them or not, which on paper is far better for LE then a complete stranger from out of town travelling 3 hours to travel and commit the crime then disappearing into the ether.

I’m intrigued by the LE activity at the house the other night. 9 PM on a Saturday? It looked to me like they were playing out a theory/chain of events (On the basis of entering with no forensic gear and the still photos) but then slightly strange as they appear to have left with evidence bags. Whatever the reason for their sudden appearance it was urgent enough they were there at night on a Saturday

 

[IceCreamSundae]

At the very end of the Brian Entin video from tonight, after the 3 officials go in the house and close the door, you can see several little pieces of red "evidence tape" on the left side of the door towards the top. I hadn't noticed that before. Potentially someone tried to push the door in? Hmmm

That’s been there for a long time.

 

[cottonweaver]

I respectfully disagree. I have an annoying-to-me unconscious pro-LE bias, but I also know several of the professionals involved & have known some of them for a very long time.

I use the word “professionals” very intentionally.

I would be shocked & deeply disappointed if any of them violated their professional ethics in that way.

JMVHO & fervent hope!

Also, my ears pricked when Fox Lawrence Jones says ' I've been speaking to some of my sources close to the investigation' when it's only yesterday that we were sharing that post emphasising that there had been no leaks from the team investigating

It's impressive that there have been no leaks so far ( professionalism & can't be bought)
I think Lawrence probably means that he's spoken to sources relating to who was present when 911 was called. Hard to say.

 

[The OG]

I’m not sure what he is trying to say. Odd wording. “Means” to me says “method” but that would take me down a whole new path…coupled with “he didn’t have to go upstairs” Maybe because the object of his attack was on the middle floor? I’m clueless. JMO

"they didn't have to go upstairs" I think what he's trying to say is that they only had to go upstairs if that is where the primary target was. It certainly could be the opposite, but the way he said it and context tells me it's the former. If his words are a little clunky, keep in mind, he's not a professional public speaker. There's a danger in trying to overanalyze the words of non-professional speakers. We do that a lot here and are often surprised to find we completely get it wrong.

 

[AngTxGal]

Good point. Yes, the uni has rosters but subpoenas might need to be issued for LE to access them -- I expect this would fall under some aspect of FERPA though I am not certain.

Having class rosters doesn’t answer the question. A prof would have to identify all students on the roster that are participating and doing work from home from those who are participating and doing work from campus.
That info is not being collected, unless the university has asked those profs to distinguish between these two student groups.
Would university records fall under FERPA? No way. Not any more than an employee file with their employer, or a patient file at a doctor office.

JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

Anger and bargaining are both stages of grief. If LE doesn't want to keep parent grievers informed, they get what they get.

My opinion.

Bargaining is a stage in the grief process? Anger yes but never heard of the former.

My two cents - making veiled threats to LE of what you might release to the media if LE don't give you the info you want ( which might harm the investigation or prosecution of a perp) is not the way to go with this