ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 26

[gliving]

Every rental I've had had the same plate as the state I was in at that time. It is possible. I just don't think it's too likely. Thus is JMO though.

Pullman-Moscow airport is located in Pullman WA. Could be a rental from the airport.

Home • Pullman-Moscow Regional Airport

View Our Progess Camera 1 Live Feed Camera 2 Live Feed Pullman-Moscow Regional Airport – New Passenger Terminal Taking Flight A big thank you to everyone who attended our Groundbreaking ceremony. List of Terminal Advisory Committee (TAC) Members. View visual boards: Board 1 – Building the Future...

www.flypuw.com

Pullman–Moscow Regional Airport (PUW), Pullman, WA | Air Miles Calculator

Pullman–Moscow Regional Airport, IATA code is PUW and ICAO code is KPUW

www.airmilescalculator.com

Pullman–Moscow Regional Airport is located approximately 3,4 miles (5,5 km) east of Pullman and about 5,3 miles (8,5 km) west of Moscow.

 

[10ofRods]

I looked this up in an earlier thread (the FBI would be horrified by my search history) and it's not quite as easy as that. Here is one very graphic link, but be warned:

Homicidal Cut Throat: The Forensic Perspective

The forensic pathologists have a challenging task during the ascertainment of the manner of death in cut throat injuries when presented with no proper history or witnesses. We report a rare homicide, where a person was killed by the father of his gay ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

because it is ncbi, I'm assuming it's okay to post it here, but do be warned. There are photos and details. You can also google Fairbairn throat cutting and get to a lot of how to from there. you can also google neck tendons and ligament structure and get a pretty good idea. here's more info;

The Dangers from Knife and Weapon Slashing

On Monday morning, April 18, 2018, an 8 year-old boy left home with a kitchen knife and walked into his central Minnesota elementary school. Minutes later, he slashed three fellow pupils, ages 8, 9 and 13 years.

www.securitymagazine.com

lots of ways to disable quickly in there. Also, carotid is 1.5 inches in, so using that as a guide...

Coroner says the wounds were in the upper body and chest area, not the throat. Is specific about it.

The heaviness of the sleeping of the roommates, how well the noise isolation works towards the 1st floor and the fact that people often don't scream when attacked all have absolutely nothing to do with the planning or execution.

Nope.

MOO: I feel like some people give the killer way too much credit and it's kinda yuck. Someone stabbed 4 drunk college kids in their sleep. This does not require that much skill, rather rage and/or psychiatric issues. While getting a college degree might require skills, as might collecting money for a new car at such a young age or getting a good partner/friend to fall asleep next to. I feel like the prep lacked at least some of these skills.

P.S: just this crazy story to share, too! Just to show how a person might be able to behave.

Gonna agree on the psychiatric issues. Someone who kills four sleeping college students with a large knife definitely has psychiatric issues, IMO. There are several conditions that make a person more prone to rage - and some that predispose people to attacking others. Whether these issues are readily observable in day-to-day life is another question.

Totally agree about the skill thing, too.

 

[GhostGhost]

It’s possible that the Perp was enraged by something in the previous 24 hours, or that night, and he kept that knife in his car.

And it’s possible that he committed this crime with recognition he was changing his life and he would have to leave.

Don’t see that stated a lot, but I think it’s possible.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Also,

4. Borrow a car from a friend or relative (with or without specific permission for the time period it was used)

5. buy a previously stolen car from an illegitimate source who is not going to want to speak up for a number of reasons.

6. have access to a car owned by someone who you knew could not/would not report it (for example, the dead grandmother you keep in the basement.

I'd never use my own car, however. just never. closer the evidence, the more compelling.

 

[cottonweaver]

If unplanned (or if the extent of it was unplanned), how, on earth, were they able to escape seemingly with little trace of blood after stabbing four people?? I don't think we ever saw footage of LE taking evidence along pathways nearby where the killer had escaped. I know all we can do is speculate about what evidence LE may or may not have, but how prepared would you have to leave little trace from a scene like that?

It's not what I meant. My previous post was just to point out that LE not being able to arrest a suspect after 4 weeks, doesn't mean the perp is a criminal mastermind. ( I'm not claiming it was totally unplanned)

As the WFLA special explains - there is a helluva a lot of biological evidence to weed through. It's week four. Professor gives his estimate of how long it will take at that WFLA link.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Coroner says the wounds were in the upper body and chest area, not the throat. Is specific about it.


Gonna agree on the psychiatric issues. Someone who kills four sleeping college students with a large knife definitely has psychiatric issues, IMO. There are several conditions that make a person more prone to rage - and some that predispose people to attacking others. Whether these issues are readily observable in day-to-day life is another question.

Totally agree about the skill thing, too.

I was replying to someone talking about throat cutting.

but could LE not consider throat upper body for the sake of not sharing too much detail that only the killer would know?

 

[WildWest]

I was wondering same - one way a killer could be certain to carry out this extent of horror would be if everyone targeted was already heavily sedated. Assume that testing will show if everyone had a common drug in their body but I believe testing has to search for specific substances rather than it just being revealed so that could be difficult.

and @GRT I too have suspected this. I wonder if the toxicology results will ever be release to the public.

 

[DizzyB]

Coroner says the wounds were in the upper body and chest area, not the throat. Is specific about it.


Gonna agree on the psychiatric issues. Someone who kills four sleeping college students with a large knife definitely has psychiatric issues, IMO. There are several conditions that make a person more prone to rage - and some that predispose people to attacking others. Whether these issues are readily observable in day-to-day life is another question.

Totally agree about the skill thing, too.

I was surprised when the coroner said that. Can’t walk that back. Up until I saw her interview, I wrongly assumed throats were slashed in at least some of the victims, but she said stabbed and specified the areas.

 

[WildWest]

I've been wondering whether the killer was in the house when they went to bed. I know some have suggested that before, but what if he drugged them somehow? That would explain how they were killed in their beds with only limited defensive wounds. That would mean it was someone they knew and trusted. MOO

Theororizing off you post, there's been talk of contractors for house repairs. I wonder if killer had worked on the furnace before, knew how to sabatoge it while all 6 room mates were out that night and routed CO2 into the house to sedate them after they got home.. Another variable would if it was NG or LP vs electric heat.

 

[Puzzles8]

I agree. Plus I think their daily releases are really helpful: They tell us what, if anything is new, they continue to list the facts and dispel the rumors. I know a lot of people think their communications have been an issue but I think they’ve been on the ball recently.

Also, I don’t think it’s a big deal at all that there are less MPD on the case, especially considering there are more FBI, who are the guys specially trained to analyze what they’re dealing with now. I actually thought that was a very positive move.

MOO

I agree with you. Less Moscow PD on the case is not a bad sign at all. Though I have no doubts about the Moscow PD, it is very good news they have enlisted the help of the FBI.

The FBI are the real high level crime experts with massive resources at their fingertips.

JMO

 

[WildWest]

Every rental I've had had the same plate as the state I was in at that time. It is possible. I just don't think it's too likely. Thus is JMO though.

Interesting, I've not had that alot. Mostly out of state for me regardless of what state we were in.

 

[justme101]

So many people making assumptions about the blood and lack of blood trail. its been noted that the Lizzy Borden murder with the hatchet had much less blood than people would normally expect.
Here is link to a discussion.

Blood Evidence - Lizzie Borden Society Forum

"The only blood evidence found was on and beneath the victims and spatter cast off from the murder weapon. There was no testimony about trails of blood, either in the form of footprints or as blood dripping from the murder weapon. There was actually very little blood spatter found around Abby's body, especially since she received several more hatchet blows than Andrew. The important point to be made is that there was relatively little blood spatter in both Abby and Andrew's murders, certainly a lot less than most people expect. Based upon that, maybe the expectations are incorrect, since the point was proven not once, but twice."
So while it was reported that it was a bloody crime scene the following day, it may not have been a bloody during the killings, just spatter, killer was wearing gloves, got spatter on his clothes, and the blood soaked into the mattress and blankets. But seems like common sense that it would take a while for blood to cover the floor.
Once again at the sake of being trolled it seems this could have involved a lot of planning and knowledge combined with the audacity of the risk also suggest work of serial killer. Although its all just speculation at this point, and I think I'll just follow news for updates.

 

[GhostGhost]

Seems (or likely) they were drinking, tired and then asleep.

Don’t see a need to drug sleeping people with alcohol in their systems.

MOO

 

[EJB123456]

By all reports ( and easy to imagine) this scene had to be a blood bath - everywhere the killer went. I imagine the individual left the bloody clothing/shoes in the kitchen. Changed into other attire and left the way they came in - through the sliding door. When the downstairs room mates and/or their guests came up in the morning for coffee etc. and saw the bloody mess they bolted downstairs again to call 911.

Hard to imagine someone who had the forethought to change their clothes, but then leave the ones with their DNA potentially on them *at* the crime scene. I would for sure think anyone with half a brain (but again we're talking about a person who has severe mental flaws in the first place to be able to murder four people) would take the clothes with them.

 

[10ofRods]

I think everyone knows the neck is the weakpoint. Just watch Game of Thrones.

Femoral artery in leg is also a weakpoint.

I think the coroner said they suffered multiple stab wounds to upper body and chest area.
So it might've been heart and lungs were punctured.

I can't make head nor tail of it. Such a tragic waste of life. Beautiful young people just starting as adults.

As it approaches a month since the attacks, my confidence of solving it is dropping

A quick google search (yuck) shows in the top results an illustrated guide on where to stab someone, including pro's and con's for each.

Puncturing the lungs makes it impossible for the victims to cry out, apparently.

I was replying to someone talking about throat cutting.

but could LE not consider throat upper body for the sake of not sharing too much detail that only the killer would know?

Could be - but usually the Coroner quotes what is in the actual autopsy report and does not dissemble with these public statements.

It's extremely important that all regional LE agencies know what kinds of wounds were actually committed, as that's how related crimes come to light.

 

[Which_pancake]

Do you think the killer might have had some understanding of human anatomy. So they could, as you say "efficiently and swiftly" do the job?

IMO it sadly wouldn't take much beyond a common understanding of anatomy to at least quickly incapacitate someone with a knife, especially a person who was just laying there asleep.

 

[Honest Abraham]

LE seemed pretty specific about the knife. They believe it is the military knife. Does that mean they need to look at military bases? Perhaps a soldier who was about to transfer or discharge and would not be returning to the area?

 

[Moonsie]

More speculation…
If I had to guess the most efficient way to kill two people sleeping in the same bed, I would say the stabbing would be V1, V2, V1, V2 until the victim was dead. Then go to the next bedroom and stab V3, V4, V3, V4 until they are dead. The longer it takes to die, the more times you get stabbed.

I’m not considering any cuts to the throats…only stabbing the torso.

I believe more wounds in that scenario only indicates that particular victim took longer to succumb to the attack.

In the unrelated (according to current evidence) attack on the Oregon couple, the wife survived 19 stabs! I don’t know how many times the husband was stabbed.

This is exactly what I was thinking, with one small exception. Let’s *pretend* that X is target (humor me here). It could be that killer

- enters home
- goes upstairs for K and M to kill them first for reasons TBD. One sleeping on side, one sleeping on stomach. Perp acts accordingly, delivering different debilitating wounds depending on how victim is sleeping. Continues until satisfied damage is done/death imminent. Takes 5 min tops.
- goes back to floor 2. Starts delivering wounds to E. Either waits for X to awaken in the meantime, or awakens her after a sufficient period of time. Says some ugly things (I killed your friends, I killed your BF and now I’m going to kill you). Why? She’s the target and wants her to suffer during her final moments. So she is awake when the final crime begins, but fights back thus her defensive wounds but still powerless to stop attack. Takes 10 min tops.
- exits home as he entered and disappears into the night

One additional thought: if you lived in a “communal” house like this where several people live, and assuming you were awake - would you think anything was out of the ordinary if you heard footsteps (or even a thud) on the floor above you at any given time of the day? Even at 4am? I sure wouldn’t. I’d think of a million other reasons before “someone is murdering my housemate” even entered my mind.

moo.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Every rental I've had had the same plate as the state I was in at that time. It is possible. I just don't think it's too likely. Thus is JMO though.

I've rented cars a lot of places, and my experience has been that there's a lot of overlap between OR, WA, Idaho, CA, MT - lots. And I noticed for two reasons - I like to imagine the scenarios that brought the car to me from somewhere else and I have a thing about numbers. I think it may depend on where you live, but there's major overlap in the PNW.

 

[ObsessedNightOwl]

All IMO

I'm going to say something most likely unpopular. I think they already have the suspect in custody and have for some time (on other charges).

I think because they knew who the suspect was right away, they made their statement of: "targeted attack" and "no threat to the community." They later retracted because they needed time to build their case before they accuse someone of being a psychotic killer. I mean, you have to get it right.

Also, LE haven't put together much of a public safety campaign stressing the importance of locking up, walking in pairs, etc. The college did a little, but I don't remember LE drilling it in, I feel like if they were worried, they would include safety information in their near-daily updates (which they've never done) on their website: News Flash

I think our suspect is local and possibly a dropout of either UI or WSU, male, 22-28, wannabe military, someone in his family is a Marine (or he wanted to be), has a prior offense (assault or SA charge). He also likes dogs (lol) as they were the only things that gave him consistent love growing up.

Interesting......A few years ago a first cousin of mine was murdered during a home invasion robbery. The suspect for that crime was arrested soon after on a car-jacking charge. LE at the time of that arrest did not have enough evidence to charge the killer with my cousins murder. It took almost a year for LE to solidify their case ( that whole time, the suspect was in jail on the car-jacking charge). They finally did charge the killer with the murder. All during the time leading up to the murder charge, LE was very tight-lipped about the case. (This would be county, state, and local police) They would only tell us that they do have a suspect, but need time to gather enough solid evidence to charge the suspect. The killer was eventually found guilty of the murder and sent away to state prison. We were very surprised and frustrated at how little info that LE would tell our family about the case.