ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 29

[Helechawagirl]

MOO: As it applies to SG: Putting spurs to LE to share more, implement protections for the community, advise all on measures students could be taking....I guess I get that. The basis for calling LE "cowards" is both a whole lot shaky and not likely to advance SG's agenda very far. Is SG inclined to believe this killer could be prepared to attack himself or other family members? If that were the hazard that SG believes police are cowing from, the perpetrator needs to change weapons...
Also MOO: I recognize SG feels the need to hold feet to the fire, but somebody besides his wife should counsel this man a little on just whats appropriate when talking to the press. I can't see where that label applied to LE can be anything but counterproductive....

IMO. He kept the covers on the victims

I’ve wondered about that. Could you stab someone through a blanket? Seems like that would be super hard.

 

[BlueTunes]

I keep thinking about SG saying “tear” to describe the wounds instead of saying cut. A jab saw is designed to penetrate and tear. Anyone in the trades or handyman will have one for drywall penetrations.

JMO

I would imagine a straight edge blade could cause tearing as well. It may have been caused by the killer stabbing and twisting the knife so the wound won’t close as easy. I imagine such actions would cause tearing around the wounds.

 

[wary]

My apologies if this has been asked and answered. Tried my best to keep up but several times had to skip pages and pages of several threads in order to finally get to end. (When in this pickle, I do this by skipping either even or odd pages so I think I catch the gist of what’s discussed.)

So, my question is about the knife. If it was found would it be possible, probable, a sure thing or there’s no way that it would still contain dna/blood evidence from the victims? I’m assuming knife has meaning for the sicko that did this and that he’d wash it really well, maybe even clean it with something that sort of files it down. But does it have “grooves” on the handle or “joints” where the handle and guard, if it has one, attach And it’d be impossible for killer to truly get it clean. Killer probably disassembled it and threw the parts in seperate bodies of water and it will never be found. But I am hoping not and it’s miraculously found and has evidentiary value.

Well, I’m going to be in big trouble if LE ever checks the searches I do.

I’ve heard that it’s very difficult to get rid of blood that ends up between the handle and the blade. I don’t believe that washing would do the trick. I hadn’t thought of your idea. Dismantling the knife—and that might be quite a job, then soaking handle and blade in bleach, then disposing of them in separate places?

Then, of course, what if LE can prove that the suspect bought a knife of exactly the same shape as the wounds on the victims—and the suspect no longer has that knife?

MOO

Can You Clean DNA Off a Knife:Slicing the Truth | Catch Cheaters Fast

You may think it's not that hard to remove DNA, but forensics is more advanced than you'd expect. Tests can show blood even after clothing…

www.catchcheatersfast.com

 

[Dysfunkshun]

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article269814187.html

Decent timeline.
I noticed that many of the well known profilers keep implying a serial killer & comparing it to the Danny Rolling case.
I just don’t get that feeling with this one. I could be wrong. It is moo..

 

[The Observer]

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article269814187.html

Decent timeline.
I noticed that many of the well known profilers keep implying a serial killer & comparing it to the Danny Rolling case.
I just don’t get that feeling with this one. I could be wrong. It is moo..

I don't either for what it's worth.

 

[tstephens1981]

Just popping in with a couple of thoughts:

The white Elantra- at first I thought this was the police throwing a red herring to take the heat off of the “lack of progress” & giving us sleuthers something (as opposed to someONE) to chew on- maybe a semi-credible tip & hey, we can dig up dirt! But the more I think about it the more significant it becomes. Namely because IMO they really don’t need any more tips at the moment, especially of the “go chase your tail” variety. If they’re asking, it’s going somewhere. Hopefully to confirm something they already know, but possibly to open a new door on a new suspect?

If I had to guess, the real holdup is twofold: one, waiting to process DNA samples. There are software systems that can “un-mingle” mixed samples pretty handily, but what to do with the results? That’s delay number two- old-fashioned investigating.

Whose DNA does not belong? Probably an unknown male, but will he be in CODIS? Unlikely given the profile a lot of us seem to agree upon- younger, has not been caught/charged with any felony or had reason to provide a DNA sample to LE in the past… So can’t we do a genealogical profile? Maybe, but probably not, at least not as fast as we’d like. Phenotyping requires a single, clean sample which I doubt we have (yet). Whatever LE has been able to pull as of now is, IMO, a pretty cloudy (co-mingled) sample of an unknown-to-LE male using touch DNA from fabric. (Likely sweat, spit, or skin cells.) If I’m right, that sample maybe just came in because it requires a more in-depth collecting/testing process than just swabbing a pool of blood off of a smooth surface, let alone the untangling of a blended sample. So if we have no idea who it could belong to, where to compare it? Maybe samples from a car? (I dunno.) It will probably require a warrant or surveillance to get those samples, and that can take time, especially if you don’t know where to start (I hope they do.)

As far as the 911, unconscious person call- I’m firmly in the roommate-fainted-outside camp. The “couldn’t get a second-floor occupant to wake up” description was one or both survivors going on about E being very badly hurt & the helpful bystander’s translation (I do believe they took over the call, hence the “roommates phone but maybe-probably not the caller”) got muddled. I really think the focus was the fainted girl, to start.

And the rest? So hard to say. I believe a local, either current or just left (within a year.) Slightly older than the victims, knew them enough to be verrry upset about *something*. It really would be nice to know more about X & E’s movements and the interactions at the fraternity. I think there is a lot more there & the police know it, too. Probably not enough to make X & E the primary targets (still leaning toward K) but possibly enough to set the “plan” into action and/or provide confirmation K was in town so now or never…

I like sharing theories here because there are always details I seem to miss or aspects I hadn’t considered- this case seems like such a riddle and I think we are compelled to attempt a solution if only for the sake of self-preservation; this could happen to anyone as far as we know! Very, very scary and my heart absolutely goes out to the friends and families as well as the community in Moscow.

Back to lurking, this is 1,000% MOO and simply food for thought.

 

[jcamh]

I saw a post earlier tonight and now, I can't find it. It had something to do with someone looking through the Pullman, WA daily police reports and they had found an abandoned Hyundai Elantra with a weapon in it? Is that real or did I hallucinate it???? Can someone post the link, please?

 

[Andreee]

Goncalves surmised that they died in Mogen's bedroom on the third floor because "there are photos of Kaylee's room with no blood on the bed."

Source.

That is what I've read in many reports, and that Kaylee's bed was made up and not slept in that night by all appearances. It also makes sense, as in a slumber party situation where the two gals were chatting and making phone calls. Either way, they are gone, and their families grieve forever.

 

[Charlot123]

.

Agreed. I believe k was in her own room and M was as well when the attack erupted. It’s been confirmed by the coroner that they were in their beds when the attack occurred, and ended up in the same bed together after being stabbed beyond saving. They both knew it was the end. They supported one another fiercely in life, and also in death. Either M assisted k or vice versa. Mortally wounded and fading, they sought comfort together and crawled into the nearest bed together. This is happening in mere seconds in real time. Chaos and confusion, panic and pandemonium reign supreme in this scenario.

Respectfully, your statement that they were in their own beds when the attack occurred and ended together when being stabbed beyond saving, to me means, two separate attacks, in two rooms, concomitantly, by two people neither of whom was good at it, people being left to die. Anatomically, your scenario seems not quite plausible to me, but it is my personal opinion. It also contradicts SG’s statement that they didn’t suffer much. I hope they didn’t.
MOO.

 

[cottonweaver]

It was the sliding glass door off the kitchen that had the full palm print on it. It was visible in photos taken from outside while investigators were inside.

iirc it was the smaller window ( close to slider window) which provided palm print that we heard reported

photo of them at work at this link

This link is the collection of some MSM images by a WS member.

( the photo of forensics at that window is the one which says ' Daily News' - next to the photo of LEO with a drone)

Google Photos

photos.google.com

 

[The Observer]

I saw a post earlier tonight and now, I can't find it. It had something to do with someone looking through the Pullman, WA daily police reports and they had found an abandoned Hyundai Elantra with a weapon in it? Is that real or did I hallucinate it???? Can someone post the link, please?

You're not hallucinating. I was the one looking through daily police logs. Yesterday I posted screenshots of two activities. 1st was a weapon found and 2nd was a call about a white Elantra. No reports taken. You're not missing anything. Not significant to the case.

 

[nisco]

The discussion of blood on the outside wall. Has it been confirmed to be blood, as I heard that it was heating oil?

 

[BrownRice]

Husband and I were discussing today , how if you knew somebody in that area,that drove a white Elantra , that year and model, wouldnt you sort of question if they had something to do with it? Even if it seemed totally farfetched for that person , the thought would cross my mind.
I believe eventually someone is going to crack about the car, if they havent already.

Also, if you’re in a parking lot and see a similar car. Do you wait for the driver and then surreptitiously take a picture?

 

[cottonweaver]

Some were killed in their bed. All were probably sleeping when the attack started. Not accurate that all four were killed in bed. Killed with a large knife, previously described as a hunting knife, wounds cannot be described as "puncture wounds."


"Of the four University of Idaho students who were found stabbed to death in a rental house last Sunday, some were killed in their beds, the Latah County coroner told CBS News Friday.

Coroner Cathy Mabbutt would not provide any further details. She noted, however, that earlier media reports stating all four victims had been murdered in their beds were not accurate.

On Thursday, Mabbutt told CBS News the students were killed with a "larger knife," expanding on the autopsy reports which concluded the four victims were stabbed to death.

According to Moscow police, the coroner said all four victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds and each was stabbed multiple times. There was no sign of sexual assault, police said."

Some of the murdered University of Idaho students were stabbed in their beds, coroner says

According to police, the coroner said all four victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds and each was stabbed multiple times.

www.cbsnews.com

“It was a pretty large knife so it’s really hard to call them puncture wounds."

University of Idaho murder victims were in bed, stabbed multiple times: coroner

The four University of Idaho students found slaughtered an off-campus house Sunday were found stabbed to death in beds — and it’s “likely” they were asleep when they were attacked, the corone…

nypost.com

reporting same day, different. source

'All four were murdered in their beds, according to the coroner, who said they suffered multiple, deep wounds which suggested the attack was 'personal'.

Inside the Idaho house where four students were murdered

The six-bedroom, three-story house on King Road in Moscow was a popular choice of party venue for University of Idaho students until the gruesome killings.

www.dailymail.co.uk

finding that CBS interview with Cathy M would help trace what she actually said about the bodies & beds - horse's mouth, so to speak

( there's probably a transcript of it already on WS. I'll have a look to see if that transcript was put into the Media Only thread here at WS)

 

[layer]

iirc it was the smaller window ( close to slider window) which provided palm print that we heard reported

photo of them at work at this link

This link is the collection of some images by a WS member.

( the photo of forensics at that window is the one which says ' Daily News' - next to the photo of LEO with a drone)

Google Photos

photos.google.com

Nice post!
This is the photo that sticks out to me. I believe they are standing on that little driveway that goes between 1122 and the apartments. I remember at the time some people were surmising they were doing line of sight investigation, but if that's the case, line of sight to what? The driveway? It almost looks like they are looking and pointing up into that tree. Clearly they are focused on something.
Weird...

 

[mendicant]

Also, if you’re in a parking lot and see a similar car. Do you wait for the driver and then surreptitiously take a picture?

I would not recommend that whatsoever.

 

[Skigirl]

Yes, it is exceedingly rare (and something my own mentor, Dr. Donald Lunde, pondered a great deal after studying serial killers in the Santa Cruz/SF Bay area - where both types existed). Multiple killings at one go by a schizophrenic are unusual (although, arguably, some schizophrenics have persuaded others to do so).

Not all schizophrenics are in a decompensated state when they commit crimes, but the ones who are could not possibly organize a crime like this one, IMO - so I totally agree with you.

I can't think of any schizophrenic mass murderers, only schizophrenic murderers (most of whom were not organized killers). If anyone knows of any schizophrenic mass murderers, please chime in!

RSBM
I'm going to go out on a limb and say this person is not schizophrenic. First, although a there is a small increase of risk of violence in people with schizophrenia, the overwhelming majority do not kill anyone. Second, given the base rate of people without schizophrenia, any murderer is more likely not to have schizophrenia than to have it.

 

[BlueTunes]

Also, if you’re in a parking lot and see a similar car. Do you wait for the driver and then surreptitiously take a picture?

Just note the time, place and license plate number. Then contact the LE Tip Line.

 

[Jdianeg]

It was the sliding glass door off the kitchen that had the full palm print on it. It was visible in photos taken from outside while investigators were inside.

They have reported how they thinking the killer got in? Thank you!

 

[MsBetsy]

The discussion of blood on the outside wall. Has it been confirmed to be blood, as I heard that it was heating oil?

No, it has never been confirmed to be blood. I think it was the DM that claimed it was blood dripping down the concrete wall. I don't think it was heating oil, either. If it were blood or if that area had been important to LE I think there would have been evidence markers there.